Torque converter questions

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7duster4

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What would be a good overall torque converter for my mild 318? 340 cam, 4-barrel, rebuilt 904, 3.21 sure-grip. Right now it has a stock converter. What stall are these rated at?I was thinking about getting one with a 2,200-2,500rpm stall. I think that would work out good, but does anyone make one to fit the stock flexplate with the 5/16 bolts, not the 7/16? What were the stock 340's stall speed rated at?

All info is appreciated. Thanks
 
Stock rating varied from 1200 to 1600 on your car depending on what they decided to install that week. I think a 2,200-2,500 would work well for you if your mainly just street cruising. If your planning on racing much I'd go 3,000. I'm using a PTC I bought from Cope racing and it works real good for a inexpensive converter. Cruises like a stock converter but stalls 3,000 when I mash it. They make lower stall ones also if you don't want that much stall. All the larger converters (11 and 12") I've seen are 5/16" bolts. Stock 340's were rated at 2,200 if I remember right.
 
Good thread....

I have a 74 318, supposed to be stock.....2.76 open gears....

Planning to go wit ha 727 so I have future upgrade options.....

Should I stay stock for now?

Where does the stall speed really come into play? I have to claim absolute ignorance on tranny stuff.....
 
shadango said:
Good thread....

I have a 74 318, supposed to be stock.....2.76 open gears....

Planning to go wit ha 727 so I have future upgrade options.....

Should I stay stock for now?

Where does the stall speed really come into play? I have to claim absolute ignorance on tranny stuff.....
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You should be fine for now since your engine is stock but a high stall converter is a performance upgrade any time so if your doing the trans swap might as well put in what you think you'll need in the future and save labor and money. BTW: Are you keeping a 318? Reason I ask is in my opinion a 727 will just slow you down. A stock 904 with a good Trans-go shift kit will stand up to any 318 and allot of guys use them in cars with stout 340's running 11's or better. Nice thing is they're lighter and consume less power to operate so your car will be a little faster with one.

The high stall converter comes into play mainly when you have a small engine that is low on torque and/or have a large cam that doesn't start to produce power until much higher rpm than the stock converter stall. Also if you have a big cam the engine naturally idles rougher and higher rpm's so you need a loose converter to cushion things going into gear. Mine is an example of that. The cam I have is pretty lumpy and idles at 875 in neutral. If I had a stock tight converter and dropped it into gear at 875 rpm it'd drop very low rpm and have a hard time idling. Also it would probably throw rocks if I were in gravel. I have a 3000 converter in it and it drops in gear just like a stock combination would.
 
Great explanation, thanks.

I am supposed to be getting a used 727 with the car....

If that falls thru, will be on my own to choose one....

I plan on keeping the 318 as-is for a bit (provided it runs good) until I can either beef it up or swap in a 340 or 360.....No big blocks planned right now...LOL

More power is always better, so eventuallyI know I will cam it or something....

But who knows.

I also dont plan on dragracing it...but will hammer it hard once in a whole I am sure....:toothy10:

I have heard the "904 is lighter" before.....would make it easier to install too...LOL

I assume either would bolt into my car , with the console shifter....so its just a matter of deciding I guess....
 
Most of the guys including myself who are using 904's successfully are doing so in light a-bodies,e and b bodies are heavy pigs and i would think a 727 would be a much better choice weight wise..as for a converter i would say with a basically stock 318 a 2200-2500 stall would work fine,when you decide to buy give Lenny at Ultimate converters a call he's one of if not the best in the business he'll tell you what you need and build it for you,i run one of his 9 1/2" converters in my duster with great results and quite a few guys at the track swear by him too..:thumbup::thumbup:
 
If you get a 727 with it that would be cost effective to use provided it's in good shape.

Yes either will bolt up where the other was. Only diff. I can think of is the driveshaft yoke and length. The 904 uses a smaller yoke and is shorter so it needs a longer driveshaft. Another nice thing about a 904 is it's smaller o.d. so it's easier to work around. On your E-body it's not as big a deal but still helps. Also it has a slightly lower first gear ratio so that's another plus for it.
 
stroked 340 said:
Most of the guys including myself who are using 904's successfully are doing so in light a-bodies,e and b bodies are heavy pigs and i would think a 727 would be a much better choice weight wise..as for a converter i would say with a basically stock 318 a 2200-2500 stall would work fine,when you decide to buy give Lenny at Ultimate converters a call he's one of if not the best in the business he'll tell you what you need and build it for you,i run one of his 9 1/2" converters in my duster with great results and quite a few guys at the track swear by him too..:thumbup::thumbup:
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I agree Lenny is very good at converters and most guys running the low e.t.'s are in light (possibly even lighter than stock) a-bodies and B-bodies are heavy but a buddy of mine has a 73 Cuda with a 340 automatic, power steering, manual brakes. Basically the same options as my 68 Cuda and his only weighs 110 lbs. more than mine so I can't agree E-bodies are heavy pigs. I've noticed factory published weights are way off allot of times so if that's where you read the weight of them that may be where you thought they are heavy pigs. On my buds 73 the factory published weight showed it weighing 400 lbs more than mine but it's only 110 lbs more. He hasn't done any lightening up either. Don't know why the reports are so far off??

Come to think of it I know another guy with a 70 440 cuda with iron heads and it only weighs about 300 lbs more than mine. I don't know the exact diff between a 360 and a 440 but I bet it's 150 lbs or so.
 
fishy68 said:
I agree Lenny is very good at converters and most guys running the low e.t.'s are in light (possibly even lighter than stock) a-bodies and B-bodies are heavy but a buddy of mine has a 73 Cuda with a 340 automatic, power steering, manual brakes. Basically the same options as my 68 Cuda and his only weighs 110 lbs. more than mine so I can't agree E-bodies are heavy pigs. I've noticed factory published weights are way off allot of times so if that's where you read the weight of them that may be where you thought they are heavy pigs. On my buds 73 the factory published weight showed it weighing 400 lbs more than mine but it's only 110 lbs more. He hasn't done any lightening up either. Don't know why the reports are so far off??

Come to think of it I know another guy with a 70 440 cuda with iron heads and it only weighs about 300 lbs more than mine. I don't know the exact diff between a 360 and a 440 but I bet it's 150 lbs or so.
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No i'm going by firsthand knowledge,i weighed my '70 duster just last season 3180 and two of my friends have '68 and '70 darts that are even lighter both of them are basically stock also....
 
stroked 340 said:
No i'm going by firsthand knowledge,i weighed my '70 duster just last season 3180 and two of my friends have '68 and '70 darts that are even lighter both of them are basically stock also....
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Man that's odd that mine seems to be so heavy. It weighs 3440. That's allot more than yours. I know fastbacks are heavier but didn't think that much but maybe??

In comparison to yours an e-body is pretty darn heavy. Not to mention a B-body.
 
fishy68 said:
Man that's odd that mine seems to be so heavy. It weighs 3440. That's allot more than yours. I know fastbacks are heavier but didn't think that much but maybe??

In comparison to yours an e-body is pretty darn heavy. Not to mention a B-body.
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The weights in the seats and console...I've been working on the interior for a 68 F/B that I'm restoring and I can't believe how heavy the seats (especially the rear fold down) and console are when compared to my '73 340 Dart Sport ! I swear theres gotta be 450 lbs of interior in these cars !
 
Lots of great info.

Are the mopar performance converters any good? The 166K seems like the one I would need and is $244:

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopper41.html

I checked "PTC" and found this one:

http://www.ptcrace.com/street-torque-converter-p-1254.html

But it dosn't list the stall speed. More money than what I would like to spend.

The mopar one from mancini seems like the least inexpensive, has anyone here used them before? My car is street driven 95% of the time and makes a few passes once or twice a year. So I need a converter thats civil on the street. I believe my current one is a 10"

Also will a converter for a 727 work for a 904??

Thanks!
 
fishy68 said:
Man that's odd that mine seems to be so heavy. It weighs 3440. That's allot more than yours. I know fastbacks are heavier but didn't think that much but maybe??

In comparison to yours an e-body is pretty darn heavy. Not to mention a B-body.
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Wow..i would think the 'cuda would be fairly light too...
 
I was wondering how much heavier the e body was versus the a body as part of my drivetrain decisions.....

According to the specs listed on howitworks.com :

72 Barracuda -- (small engine) 2905-3225lbs (big engine)
72 duster -- (small engine) 2780 - 3100 (340)

Seems pretty close to me , really, if the specs they list are correct........I guess they could be off....

However the one thing I CAN say for sure is that, after trying to push my (non running) Barracuda up hill into my garage its DANG heavy! LOL

The Roadrunner Hemi is listed at 4,000 lbs :toothy10: Probably 400 of that is extra engine weight...LOL
 
The MP ones are decent. Not a race unit, not the best, but for the cash you can't do much better.
 
The sprag is like the reaction member in the convertor. It's common failure to bend the fins on the case, or hurt the bearings that support the sprag. The HD version helps stop that. You have to remember that all convertors nowadays are acually cores that are modified. Some lightly (cheaper ones) and some heavily(all new but the casing). Any good convertor will run between $400 and $600 depending on your needs and the company.
 
7duster4 said:
I have also heard a lot of positive things about hughes. I found this one on summit:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HUP-27-25HD&view=1&N=700+150+400306+4294908078+

Anyone know what it means when it states - "Contains special heavy-duty sprag"

Would this be a good, dependable converter for my setup?
What is a average price for one of these places such as "PTC", "Ultimate Converters" etc to build one to my specs?

Thanks
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With the Huges convertor,do you have to buy a special flexplate with the ringgear on it?Are you going with a 10 inch?Will and why are there 9 and 8 inch and do they all fit the 904.Sorry for jumping in with so many questions,but I,m also looking to buy new trans-go 2 shift-kit and 2500-3000 stall convertor for 904.Thanks for any advise.
 
pettybludart said:
With the Huges convertor,do you have to buy a special flexplate with the ringgear on it?Are you going with a 10 inch?Will and why are there 9 and 8 inch and do they all fit the 904.Sorry for jumping in with so many questions,but I,m also looking to buy new trans-go 2 shift-kit and 2500-3000 stall convertor for 904.Thanks for any advise.
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Im really not too sure. Unfortanatley I have not dealt with these before. I would assume I would need a 10" becuase I believe that is what I have in it now. But it is a stock replacment converter. Im also not sure about using a different flexplate. I would think my current one will work fine. I think the smaller diameter ones are for a higher stall or race application. I am sure someone with more experience will chime in.
 
If you look at the Huges ones,there is no ring-gear on it for the starter?My stock convertor has the gear on the convertor and my flexplate is small.Also have to check bolt sizes.I just don,t want to get the wrong parts!
 
I think I decided what kind to get:

http://www.kmjent.com/cart/product.php?productid=121&cat=7951833&page=1

Has anyone used these before? I'll call them on monday and get some more info on it. Not sure why it's 2,200-2,800 when other ones I see have one stall rpm.

Is it really nessecary to run a trans cooler even though it's not real high of a stall? I could see using one for a car thats more race than street.
 
A good 904 will work fine behind a 318 in an e-body.

A convertor in the 2500 range is a good happy medium for a street car. Gives some room for growth and isn't too sloppy. A good convertor can make or break a car.
 
7duster4 said:
I think I decided what kind to get:

http://www.kmjent.com/cart/product.php?productid=121&cat=7951833&page=1

Has anyone used these before? I'll call them on monday and get some more info on it. Not sure why it's 2,200-2,800 when other ones I see have one stall rpm.

Is it really nessecary to run a trans cooler even though it's not real high of a stall? I could see using one for a car thats more race than street.
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I haven't ran or even knew anybody that has ran a ACC converter but I have bought from KMJ before and they seemed good to deal with. The rating of 2200~2800 is really a more accurate rating than a specific number. Reason is the stall speed will vary with your engines torque output so if you run it behind your 318 it'll probably only stall 22-2300 but if you put it behind a 408 it could stall 2800 rpm.

Any higher than stall converter will create more heat so it's always a good idea to run an aux cooler even if your not racing. I personally recommend it but you might find a few guys that say it's ok not to run one. After rebuilding transmissions for over 25 yrs. and seeing black and blue parts even in grandma transmissions (ones that are never ran hard) I always recommend running an extra cooler on anything you'll run hard even just once in awhile. Just my personal preference.
 
fishy68 said:
I haven't ran or even knew anybody that has ran a ACC converter but I have bought from KMJ before and they seemed good to deal with. The rating of 2200~2800 is really a more accurate rating than a specific number. Reason is the stall speed will vary with your engines torque output so if you run it behind your 318 it'll probably only stall 22-2300 but if you put it behind a 408 it could stall 2800 rpm.

Any higher than stall converter will create more heat so it's always a good idea to run an aux cooler even if your not racing. I personally recommend it but you might find a few guys that say it's ok not to run one. After rebuilding transmissions for over 25 yrs. and seeing black and blue parts even in grandma transmissions (ones that are never ran hard) I always recommend running an extra cooler on anything you'll run hard even just once in awhile. Just my personal preference.
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I looked up some prices from summit on coolers. Not as expensive as I was expecting. A small one would run me about $35. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to use one just for peace of mine. How exactly are they installed? Is it an easy job?

Thanks
 
I have a 10 inch that performance converter shop here in new london, ohio built for my set up. Its for a 904 and was to stall right around 2500 rpm's. It was way to tight for me. I asked the guy at pcs if he would look at it and he blamed it on me saying I gave him the wrong info and pretty much said go screw myself. I gave a little over 300 for it. You give me what ever it cost to ship to your location and I would be happy. I live north of you in Tiffin, oh Let me know. It has been a boat anchor in my garage for a while now and it needs to go.
 
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