Torsion bars

[clementine]

This is for science purposes only.

Rebuild front end and run your stock T bars.

Run your regular shocks you have laying around

BUT get a nice oversized tubular sway bar.

Run it.

Then get new torsion and shocks and report back the difference.

Again, just for scientific research.

Torsion bars n shocks are easy to swap.

THEN…..tiny rear sway bar and not too heavy springs in back.

Report back……for science. Nothing extra is spent in this scenario and knowledge is gained.

$0.01

EDIT: i am running the 1.03 pst bars on a iron headed 383 and am looking forward to aluminum heads. So go 1.03 or heavier in my humble opinion.

 

[cookietruck]

You can get smaller bars if you want them. I would do BB bars though.

Firmfeel Mopar Suspension and Steering

mopar, firmfeel, firm feel, www.firmfeel.com, show, restore, motor mounts, front end kits, kyb, moog, road racing, 360, dodge, plymouth, chrysler, power, manual, 440, 383, 340, brakes, couplers, sway bars, shocks, steering, suspension, high performance, steering adapters, tubular upper control...

www.firmfeel.com

 

[Kern Dog]

Given the cost of material, tooling, labor, environmental fees and transport the price is not out of line. You should avoid making flippant comments like that without any direct knowledge of the subject.

No, I'll make whatever comments that I want to make. Feel free to IGNORE me. I stand by what I wrote. FIVE hundred dollars is way too much money.

I can't comment on the latter part you might be able to enlighten us on that lol

Did you really laugh out loud? Really ? Also....is your sense of humor broken?

Although many of us are shocked at current performance part prices it would behoove all of us to have some respect for the business owners bringing us options for old Mopar cars.
Perhaps Peter can chime in @BergmanAutoCraft

If you are comfortable paying that much for parts, good for you. I'll bet that the majority of others find many prices are just out of line. I'm happy that the products are available but jumping from $380 to $500 for a small increase in torsion bar size is just too hard to accept for many people.

 

[cookietruck]

No, I'll make whatever comments that I want to make. Feel free to IGNORE me. I stand by what I wrote. FIVE hundred dollars is way too much money.



Did you really laugh out loud? Really ? Also....is your sense of humor broken?



If you are comfortable paying that much for parts, good for you. I'll bet that the majority of others find many prices are just out of line. I'm happy that the products are available but jumping from $300 to $500 for a small increase in torsion bar size is just too hard to accept for many people.

You can probably find used ones if you have budgetary constraints.

 

[Kern Dog]

Sometimes it isn't a matter of not having the money.
I know that when I have paid more than I'm comfortable with, it feels like I just validated an inflated price. That empowers the seller.
If the public resists buying based on high prices, the vendors either reduce prices if they can or go out of business. I'm not looking to shut these guys out but if their products are priced a lot more than their competition, it just doesn't feel right.
Maybe I am out of touch to some degree.
I do almost all of my own work on my cars. I see what shops charge and it boggles the mind.

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

Sometimes it isn't a matter of not having the money.
I know that when I have paid more than I'm comfortable with, it feels like I just validated an inflated price. That empowers the seller.
If the public resists buying based on high prices, the vendors either reduce prices if they can or go out of business. I'm not looking to shut these guys out but if their products are priced a lot more than their competition, it just doesn't feel right.
Maybe I am out of touch to some degree.
I do almost all of my own work on my cars. I see what shops charge and it boggles the mind.

I'm just happy that vendors are providing parts for our old girls. Of course the prices are ridiculous, but what are we to do? Our love for these older cars is getting more expensive every year.

 

[junkyardhero]

Sometimes it isn't a matter of not having the money.
I know that when I have paid more than I'm comfortable with, it feels like I just validated an inflated price. That empowers the seller.
If the public resists buying based on high prices, the vendors either reduce prices if they can or go out of business. I'm not looking to shut these guys out but if their products are priced a lot more than their competition, it just doesn't feel right.
Maybe I am out of touch to some degree.
I do almost all of my own work on my cars. I see what shops charge and it boggles the mind.

would i like them to be cheaper? yes
would i love it if there were more offerings than, basically, 1.03? also yes

but with the consideration that until recently bars that were .9 + in diameter were considered well into the the performance category and veered into offroad/circletrack use only, the fact we even have somebody making bars is a gift horse i'm not looking in the teeth.

mopar has always been a niche market and suspension is a dark little dusty corner of this world that is just barely, finally getting some light shone in on it. so as to be expected, with everything on these cars, it's pay to play.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

No, I'll make whatever comments that I want to make. Feel free to IGNORE me. I stand by what I wrote. FIVE hundred dollars is way too much money.



Did you really laugh out loud? Really ? Also....is your sense of humor broken?



If you are comfortable paying that much for parts, good for you. I'll bet that the majority of others find many prices are just out of line. I'm happy that the products are available but jumping from $300 to $500 for a small increase in torsion bar size is just too hard to accept for many people.

I'm trying to help you polish your social skills. Attacking me is not helpng you with that.

: D

Again, disrespectibg manufacturers with respect to their price points is uncouth.

As a tradesman you should already know this.

Yes, I am chuckling as I type this.

On the subject of t-bars:

I ran a set of 1.24" t bars in my pearl white 66 Charger with an iron headed 440. It had a 1.25" front / 7/8" rear sway bar combo. It was a blast to drive. My wife drove that one a lot and never complained about the ride even with KYB's We drove that car 14 hours straight from Klamath Falls, OR to the North rim of the Grand Canyon October 31st, 2012 (?). The pics are posted on FBBO :

 

[junkyardhero]

Again, disrespectibg manufacturers with respect to their price points is unkuth.

i believe you mean uncouth...

*adjusts monocle*

*get stuffed into locker*

[bitchin' 66, my fave year!]

 

[matthon]

Rebuild front end and run your stock T bars.

Run your regular shocks you have laying around

BUT get a nice oversized tubular sway bar.

Run it.

Then get new torsion and shocks and report back the difference.

Again, just for scientific research.

Torsion bars n shocks are easy to swap.

THEN…..tiny rear sway bar and not too heavy springs in back.

Here's some science:

383 aluminum heads, aluminum tunnel ram, stock bb radiator, which is frigging heavy btw.
Stock bb torsion bars with stock swaybar.

Rebuilt stock suspension, with stock front swaybar and torsion bars.
Also rebuilt rear suspension, Espo springs.

Ran it for years. Nice, but nothing special.

Rebuilt front suspension using QA1 UCA/LCA/Struts, KYB shocks all around, Hotchkis front swaybar, new steering box, rebuilt steering column.

Ran it for years. Tracked incredibly well, can let go of steering wheel and it just goes straight, handled much more better.

Added a rear swaybar. Handles much better, sidewall on right rear tire rubbed spring ever so slightly on tight cornering. Sidewall must be suffering the wrath of the rear swaybar.

Don't know about anyone else, but the right rear spring on Mopars seem to be a hair closer to the tire.

Went bbp axles, bigger tires with same wheel offset, no more rubbing on spring, bearing to flange distance slightly larger on bbp axles.

Drove a friend's car, small block, stock suspension, stock swaybar with new 1" bars and it was very steady and did not bounce.

Thinking of 1.03 bars and Bilstien shocks all around.

Not sure why I didn't replace the torsion bars, at all, ever. Replaced everything else, I imagine they suffer from use and time like all other parts.

I imagine new bars and better shocks would be noticeable.

Science.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

i believe you mean uncouth...

*adjusts monocle*

*get stuffed into locker*

[bitchin' 66, my fave year!]

Thank you. Unfortunately for anyone reading my posts I studied engineering and skipped most of the English and art classes

 

[junkyardhero]

Thinking of 1.03 bars and Bilstien shocks all around.

you will be pleased

Not sure why I didn't replace the torsion bars, at all, ever. Replaced everything else, I imagine they suffer from use and time like all other parts.

I imagine new bars and better shocks would be noticeable.

Science.

yes, t-bars will fatigue just like a spring. while the rate and sag might not be as noticeable, they do "wear" as well.

suspension is almost always the last stop on the train. after brakes even. and even then most of the time brakes are filed to: they work good enough.

because suspension isn't sexy, or bling-y or "makes you faster" and you can't see it. joe dickhead at the local cruise sees a tunnel ram and dual quads and goes: gat-dang! that thar thang must haul the mail! and most everybody's eyes glaze over when you say anything like: subframe connectors, adjustable strut rods or talk about camber gain thru the suspension arc.

i will long maintain that the best upgrades to overall operation and enjoyment of a car per dollar spent is in the suspension and brakes. you can go out and spend 5 grand on a 450hp motor that sounds bitchin' and just plain eats. but what fun is that if your car drives like a bunch of rusty door knobs in a wet cardboard box and you've got to think about your next application of brakes?

5K could get you a wonderfully driving car with modern rubber and kick *** brakes with enough left over for the last half of a lap dance at bob's classy lady and a carnitas plate at don juans, and maybe like a set of cool valve covers. who cares if it's slow, it still looks good going down the road.

 

[Kern Dog]

It may also come down to what each enthusiast prefers.
I prefer to impress myself. Yeah, suspension upgrades are not as visible as a paint job or a rebuilt engine but they sure do make the car better overall.
I spent almost 20 years with a car that had to comply with state emission regulations so instead of making it faster, I made it handle better. From there, I was SOLD on prioritizing handling over everything. That car was a 76 Camaro.
I know that our Mopars are not the most common cars to modify so the parts to do that will be higher than it is for other cars.
This is what you're looking at for a pair of upgraded coil springs for a Camaro:

THESE are the more expensive springs on the Summit Racing site, for Camaros anyway.
We are supposed to just accept a $550 price for torsion bars a few thousandths bigger than a 1.03 for $380?
I try to be reasonable about this but I can't make sense of paying that much.

 

[junkyardhero]

THESE are the more expensive springs on the Summit Racing site, for Camaros anyway.
We are supposed to just accept a $550 price for torsion bars a few thousandths bigger than a 1.03 for $380?
I try to be reasonable about this but I can't make sense of paying that much.

oh! oh! do engine components next!

 

[496 polara]

I am powerless over the price of parts.I am happy people still make parts for them. Most of us "enthusiasts" are 50+ and when we are gone the aftermarket support may go with us.

I know some younger people appreciate old cars but I wonder how many can afford to buy the parts,let alone have people around who know how to work on them.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

FIVE hundred dollars for a pair of torsion bars is a butt rape.

Lof'nl, Haha !

 

[mygasser]

5K could get you a wonderfully driving car with modern rubber and kick *** brakes with enough left over for the last half of a lap dance at bob's classy lady and a carnitas plate at don juans, and maybe like a set of cool valve covers. who cares if it's slow, it still looks good going down the road.

it's more fun driving a slow car to it's limits most of the time than trying to control a fast car that doesn't handle/stop. i've had both, lol.
neil.

 

[Killer6]

It may also come down to what each enthusiast prefers.
I prefer to impress myself. Yeah, suspension upgrades are not as visible as a paint job or a rebuilt engine but they sure do make the car better overall.
I spent almost 20 years with a car that had to comply with state emission regulations so instead of making it faster, I made it handle better. From there, I was SOLD on prioritizing handling over everything. That car was a 76 Camaro.
I know that our Mopars are not the most common cars to modify so the parts to do that will be higher than it is for other cars.
This is what you're looking at for a pair of upgraded coil springs for a Camaro:

View attachment 1716426474

THESE are the more expensive springs on the Summit Racing site, for Camaros anyway.
We are supposed to just accept a $550 price for torsion bars a few thousandths bigger than a 1.03 for $380?
I try to be reasonable about this but I can't make sense of paying that much.

The cost & complexity to mfr. a Torsion Bar set is much higher than coils, period. Winding a spring steel rod into a coil & having it re-tempered & powdercoated is child's play today. The engineering & execution of forming a straight T-bar with hex ends clocked correctly & properly tempered end-to-end & completely/evenly is much higher, and gets worse the thicker the bar gets. I understand how You feel, I'm probably not too much out in front of You age-wise, I'm still catching Myself thinking prices should be what they were in the mid '80's when I was buying DC stuff.........sadly those times have sailed.
Calling it butt-rape..??......lolol,.....I think that's a bit over the top, even tho' $500 is more than I paid each for the 1st 6 vehicles I purchased......back then...& even a few in the late '90's-'00's....to be blunt, getting those popular 1.03" bars at those prices is a bargain today.

 

[Kern Dog]

Well, I'll admit that I've never been violated that way so I was just guessing...

 

[Ottmundr]

Sometimes it isn't a matter of not having the money.
I know that when I have paid more than I'm comfortable with, it feels like I just validated an inflated price. That empowers the seller.
If the public resists buying based on high prices, the vendors either reduce prices if they can or go out of business. I'm not looking to shut these guys out but if their products are priced a lot more than their competition, it just doesn't feel right.
Maybe I am out of touch to some degree.
I do almost all of my own work on my cars. I see what shops charge and it boggles the mind.

Agreed. The solution to high prices is high prices. The market refuses to pay, and prices come down.
Some folks seem to think that high prices are non-negotiable, they are not.

 

[Killer6]

Agreed. The solution to high prices is high prices. The market refuses to pay, and prices come down.
Some folks seem to think that high prices are non-negotiable, they are not.

Orrrrrrr,......the solution is competition, & then You get flooded with Chinese junk, & everybody whines "nobody done makes nothin' in this country"....& "everything is f'n garbage these days"............but GOOD NEWS!!!! You are free to go out & manufacture those bars Yourself, & then offer them to us for $200/pair(remember, they're right & left), and free the Mopar world from this obscene profiteering.

 

[junkyardhero]

you remember buying MP bars at the dealer?

pepridge farms remembers...

in all seriousness, i remember going to the dealer and buying MP bars and they were quite reasonable (even more so at racer net!) and the parts guys looking at me like i had a third eye smack in the middle of my forehead. nobody was buying bars back in the day, and to some level still aren't, hence, the market segment never really took off and that ultimately is what's responsible for the higher cost of the components. specialized products get specialized pricing.

 

[abodyjoe]

Agreed. The solution to high prices is high prices.
The market refuses to pay, and prices come down. Some folks seem to think that high prices are non-negotiable, they are not.

people refuse to pay and they stop making said part is how it usually works.

 

[Killer6]

people refuse to pay and they stop making said part is how it usually works.

Yep, then it's just the latest *****-ticket used to check in with, "nobody makes nuthin' for Mopars"...........and sometimes, vendors/mfrs. make it worse with reverse psycology, like the following.....a well known supplier of primarily '60's-era Mopar stuff had some early-A quarter panel repair sections, & they weren't moving, He commented to the wife of a couple I know that "I'm gonna jack the price up just to make money on them". I had no idea they were available, but that sure rubbed Me the wrong way, like it's other's & My fault I hadn't heard of 'em........so We get to pay 25-30% more than the guy/gal last week?? How about improving promotion of the product instead???

 

[Killer6]

And here's the '97 catalog listing,...and the consumer price list effective 1/1/97

@Duster2022! At least You can see what Mopar's intended app for various bars were...