Total timing

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6pkScamp

6pkScamp

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Hey guys
What are you running for total timing on your small block strokers? At the track Sunday a gentleman informed me that I was dogging my car. My response was wtf. He proceeded to tell me I didn't have enough timing, jets to small, shifting to soon and I need a trans brake. And it would be a 9.90 car.
My timing is at 34
Shifting at 6k
83 / 90 on jets
Not messin with the tranny till I brake that
 
only god knows. u r in the ballpark and at the track, try 1 adjustment at a time, read spark plugs, try 33*, try 35*, shift at 5900, try 6100 etc. test and tune
 
I did a lot of research on these strokers before deciding on what I wanted to do and I found for the most part the dynos showed there was no more power being made after 63 to 6500 rpm. And yes he's a Chevy guy but he did own a couple of hemis.
 
Isn't your car a 4sp? Did he have a plan to install a brake?
If anything the timing may be too advanced, but you need to experiment. I go two degrees at a time, and I'd go up as a test, then less. A small chamber and the right fuel may not need that much advance. I've had more than one that ran best at 28° total.
 
moper said:
Isn't your car a 4sp? Did he have a plan to install a brake?
If anything the timing may be too advanced, but you need to experiment. I go two degrees at a time, and I'd go up as a test, then less. A small chamber and the right fuel may not need that much advance. I've had more than one that ran best at 28° total.
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Was a four speed, went to a JW 727 and ultimate converter. Funny you say that about the timing, my motor guy told me go with 30. I guess I'll start backing it down.
 
Everything is set up wrong? That guy must know everything! I have 80/84 jets in my Holley 950HP. The wideband is telling me that it is a little on the fat side IIRC. When I ran, I had timing set at 28 at first (which is my 91 octane tune) and ran a 10.99. I bumped timing to 36 after that. It picked up a couple mph but I really didn't see a drastic change in MPH or ET like I thought it should. The ET didn't change much b/c my 60 ft sucks. The motor may like less timing than 36 so we'll see. I was also shifting at 7200 which really is too high I found out later. Probably will start somewhere around 6300 next time. I think you're in the ballpark on your setup. Set up well, it should be a mid 10 second car, give or take. You're already almost there! Don't listen to that guy.
 
If you ran it on a dyno, the timing numbers you got may have zero relationship to what the engine wants in the car. Some think the dyno is the place to get a proper set up for a car, it's not. The car and dyno may load the engine entirely different.

Quench engine, I'd take timing out of it, go to 32 next time out. Look at the plug porcelain for speckling. If you see speckling, it's likely detonating.
 
Oh. I thought you still had a stick in it. Sorry for my confusion. I'm not sure what you're fueling with, but certain oxygenated race fuels will perform a lot differently than pump swill, which may be all over the place formulation-wise anyway. If you are thinking of class racing you might want to talk to a VP tech guy and see what they recommend.
 
moper said:
Oh. I thought you still had a stick in it. Sorry for my confusion. I'm not sure what you're fueling with, but certain oxygenated race fuels will perform a lot differently than pump swill, which may be all over the place formulation-wise anyway. If you are thinking of class racing you might want to talk to a VP tech guy and see what they recommend.
Click to expand...

No racing in my future, just having fun with the car. It's a 10:1 motor and I ran 93 pump swill both times that I went to the track.
 
clinteg said:
Everything is set up wrong? That guy must know everything! I have 80/84 jets in my Holley 950HP. The wideband is telling me that it is a little on the fat side IIRC. When I ran, I had timing set at 28 at first (which is my 91 octane tune) and ran a 10.99. I bumped timing to 36 after that. It picked up a couple mph but I really didn't see a drastic change in MPH or ET like I thought it should. The ET didn't change much b/c my 60 ft sucks. The motor may like less timing than 36 so we'll see. I was also shifting at 7200 which really is too high I found out later. Probably will start somewhere around 6300 next time. I think you're in the ballpark on your setup. Set up well, it should be a mid 10 second car, give or take. You're already almost there! Don't listen to that guy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. The plugs looked good. I went from 80s in the front to 83s. I'm going to take some timing out and see how it reacts. Won't be doin much till I get the rear end fixed. Dumping the 8 3/4 and building a Dana.
 
so the car doesn't pull past 6K? I shift right around 6700, as that is where my peak HP is and its pulling all the way to that point. 34 on 91 pump gas, and plugs look very clean. Do you have a wideband yet?
 
FredS said:
so the car doesn't pull past 6K? I shift right around 6700, as that is where my peak HP is and its pulling all the way to that point. 34 on 91 pump gas, and plugs look very clean. Do you have a wideband yet?
Click to expand...

No I don't. But I've been thinking about one. Which one do you have and are you happy with it?
 
looks close to mine, but a bit less duration and lift and mine screams to 6500 quite easily in all forward gears. What stall on the converter too? Your flow numbers are very close to my W2s also.
 
FredS said:
looks close to mine, but a bit less duration and lift and mine screams to 6500 quite easily in all forward gears. What stall on the converter too? Your flow numbers are very close to my W2s also.
Click to expand...

In the 38 to 4000 range.
 
Well as a guess, it seems as if your powerband of your cam would reach to 6500-almost 7000k rpm. What rpm is it supposed to start? 3500k?

Depending on rear gears, it seems that a shift point might be in the 6200-6500 range to keep you in the powerband for the next gear.

As suggested, I would try different shift points(higher) and then move on to jets if need be once the plugs have been read.

Total timing depends on heads. Fishy68 has Magnum heads, I believe. LA style heads like a bit more. But other factors are quench, fuel octane, and chamber design. Find your base initial/total. Go up 2* test it. Then go back down if it gets worse.

Once again, plug reading is key. You should be able to read the strap to see where total timing is and how your plugs like it.
 
The heads are indybrocks and 4:10 years with 29.5 MTs. As far as the cam that piece of paper in the previous post is all I recieved. Called Camotion and told them the specs. And this is what they ground for me.
Thanks to all who offered info
 
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