Turn Signal Info

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BillGrissom

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Was in-there recently in my 1965 Dart and couldn't find photos on the web, just the same questions asked with no answers other than "just buy the whole thing" (don't you love such replies?). Now that I figured it out, hope this helps someone else.

My main question was how the plastic sliders inside the switch should be oriented since initially no turn signals worked, so I had jumped in there and a slider fell out. My problems turned out to be I had mirror-imaged the wires in the column connector, strange since I had numbered the terminals correctly and wire colors should match on both sides. Another was the electronic flasher didn't work with the all LED bulbs I installed. Swapped the rears to filament bulbs since the stop lamps weren't bright enough w/ LED anyway. Another was that the front left wire had pushed back in the bulkhead connector (common).

Details and random notes:

This turn signal switch is used on all Mopars (A, B, C body) from 1963-66 (?). Earlier cars had an old-school metal lever switch (I think). The later switch 1966-69 (?) can be used. Indeed, I had one in my 1965 Newport though the base was tight against the column housing (trimmed, forget). The later ones bring the red (input from flasher) and wht (input from brake switch) wires in on the cam (SM-9), which feed to long wires under the cam. Even later switches (1970+ ?) added a hazard switch and other mod's which likely wouldn't fit. Ford sedans (Galaxy, Fairlane, ...) had similar early and late switches which look almost identical in the switch part, but the bases and horn contact varied, so you couldn't adapt but might use the innards. Ford changed switch style after 1964(?).

Note that the upper slider (right turns) is installed so the copper is on the bottom of the slider. You can orient the slider only one way since the pin slot in the base is offset upward. The longer copper contact is then at top. It touches just the right rear bulb (brn wire) unless the slider is right (signaling right turn) when the right front bulb (tan) is also touched and the shorter bottom contact changes from touching the left input (wht = brake) to the right input (red = flasher), so both right bulbs flash.

The bottom slider is oriented mirror image, with wider contact at bottom. The pin is offset down, which puts the copper in front. Both sliders appear identical, though mine had different numbers in the plastic (recall "18" and "45"). The left rear bulb is dk grn wire (left) and left front is lt grn (right). Add silicone grease for easy sliding and corrosion protection. The cam just pries off and is pushed on. You can still buy new ones PN SM-13 (or TS-13).

The 2nd photo shows the cam and lever installed, and the flasher wiring. Strangely, the Shop Manual depicts the flasher connector on top of a circle, as if you are looking at the wire side of the connector (like photo). But, the schematic really means you are looking into the end of the connector. Some 2-terminal flashers label the terminals "X" for constant 12 VDC input (black wire, ACC feed) and "L" for load (red wire to turn signal switch). My electronic one has that. The flasher clips into the top of the cig lighter, though many just let it hang from the wiring. Interestingly, we were driving in my 1969 Dart in 1989 on a dirt road in NM w/ washboard ripples and smoke came from under the dash. The black ACC wire to the flasher had smoked. I don't think the insulation rubbed thru, but rather the flasher fell apart inside to short that wire to the case. If true, perhaps better to not clip it in the metal holder.

I also show a photo of the column connector. The manual schematic give pin#'s (Sharpied mine), but doesn't show where the alignment slot is. We know now that the guy who drew these wiring schematics went on to design Florida ballots. You are supposed to secure the connector to a hole on the top of the column, using a steel clip which slides into the side opposite the alignment slot. I have such a pin in my 1964 Valiant, but not for the Dart. New connector housings have an integral plastic pin for that.

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Mine just quit. New switch. Maybe a you wrote fuse, I'll have to dig a Lil. Also dash lights quit, noticed at same time.. nice educational piece there you wrote!
 
Yup, this is how the shuttles work in the switch, which was used from '62-'63 (with Packard terminals) and '64-'69 (with Delphi terminals). Keep in mind, though, not only the plastic parts of the switch wear and break. The shuttles and the stationary contacts wear physically over the years, which increases the switch's internal resistance—this dims and slows the brake lights and turn signals. You can clean 'em up and yank 'em back from the brink a time or two, get 'em working again, but sooner or later "buy a new switch" is the correct answer if the goal is operational reliability and crash avoidance.

(And I'm not just saying that because I sell the best new switches, LOL)
 
if you get a LED flasher and some decent LED bulbs you can transform the performance of the brakes tail and indciators. but as i don't know much about really early cars i can't make a suggestion

but i did write up what i did LED Indicators/blinkers, side/running and tail/brake lights
even if you get little from it, my car is Australian 1971 i.e similar to US 1968), the pictures should prove that you can have nice bright indiactors, tail and sidelights if you get the right stuff..

Dave
 
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My turn signals only worked if you wiggled the handle. I spent a lot of time fooling with it. I had it out a couple of times and replaced the cam. Big waste of time for me. Never could get it to work consistently. Bought a new switch and it has worked well the last few years.
 
Yup, this is how the shuttles work in the switch, which was used from '62-'63 (with Packard terminals) and '64-'69 (with Delphi terminals). Keep in mind, though, not only the plastic parts of the switch wear and break. The shuttles and the stationary contacts wear physically over the years, which increases the switch's internal resistance—this dims and slows the brake lights and turn signals. You can clean 'em up and yank 'em back from the brink a time or two, get 'em working again, but sooner or later "buy a new switch" is the correct answer if the goal is operational reliability and crash avoidance.

(And I'm not just saying that because I sell the best new switches, LOL)
I have 3 of the newer style switches in a bag. I think the earlier slider contacts are a superior design so will keep those going as long as possible. The later design with wires on cam for contacts appears a cheaper design, unlikely by Chrysler since Ford switches made that same change even earlier, but both manufacturers bought into that rev. One of my newer switches has burn marks on the contact wire and another doesn't click and hold positions (appears the Chinese-made one). Surprisingly, the plastic base of the switch in the photo still seems pristine with no cracks. I wonder if a robust plastic like nylon. Don't know if the bluish tint means anything. Don't recall if original to the Dart, indeed vaguely recall it is the OE one from my 1965 Newport which I removed ~1993 since couldn't find a replacement cam then (no internet).
 
if you get a LED flasher and some decent LED bulbs you can transform the performance of the brakes tail and indciators. but as i don't know much about really early cars i can't make a suggestion

but i did write up what i did LED Indicators/blinkers, side/running and tail/brake lights
even if you get little from it, my car is Australian 1971 i.e similar to US 1968), the pictures should prove that you can have nice bright indiactors, tail and sidelights if you get the right stuff..

Dave
Thanks. I'll look for better LED's for the rear brake bulbs, brighter and will support the flasher (or change it too). The plastic lenses are so expensive I don't want to risk them with incandescent bulbs, plus the switch appreciates the lower current. LED bulbs work fine for the front bulbs. I have LED's in the cluster. You especially need that for one location with a blue visor (recall) since I recall mine was slightly melted from a past incandescent.
 
yeah those blue gell covers in the dash are a pain ive got 7 of the things ratting about + a different press fit cap on the aicon airtemp control frame

10W bulb melts them eventually 5 Watt bulb doesn't but doesn't produce enough light

never seen a 7.5 watt wedge bulb... they probably do exist somewhere
But LEDs do the job very nicely once you work out which way to fit...


if you want to replace the damaged blue dome things then ford used the same in the early 70s, and in blue green and red, all same size and fitment like mopar blue in the 60s
when i looked all i could find was ford but these days mopar ones pop up from time to time

Dash Gauge Instrument Cluster Light Bulb Lens 68-70 Charger Superbee Fury Dart | eBay
 
I left my front turn signals incandescent and went LED on the back. All I really wanted was brighter brake lights. That way I didn’t have to change the flasher.
 
I have head lots of horror stories about repop turn signal switches, but the one I bought from Year One about five years ago has worked fine. I drive it about 3,000 miles a year, so it doesn’t get a huge amount of use. Five years is a long time too, quality has probably gotten worse…..
 
Yup

gotta be careful not to buy utter junk, ebay is full of LED junk..... i paid £14 to £18 a pair after spending £3 on ebay and not being impressed. worth it just for the switching functionality in the 2 filament 1157 style for indicator/sidelight which is useful here in UK.

really need the ones with the deep light dispersion lenses in. 1/4 inch deep dome, a convex on out side and flat on the back... get a bit of refraction going on
and on a car with lamps that need to be seen from side and front (modern mainly, few have totally flat or recessed lenses these days ), the positioning of the collection of LEDs in the unit and the unit length is important, stuff that caused no worries with a bulb needs to be considerd.

if you don't care about resto standards any ageing housing that housed a bulb for a coloured lamp. can be greatly improved for bulb or LED use, by painting the interior white. this casues enhanced glow across the full lens, in the specified colour, rather than making the intensity of a central beam of light stronger which is more like what you get with a silvered reflector in a head lamp. it just scatters the light better than the untreated pot metal surface of some of the units, and gives a more uniform look to the lens when light is off on a sunny day

not for everyone but not a waste of time either.



Dave
 
Yup

gotta be careful not to buy utter junk, ebay is full of LED junk..... i paid £14 to £18 a pair after spending £3 on ebay and not being impressed. worth it just for the switching functionality in the 2 filament 1157 style for indicator/sidelight which is useful here in UK.

really need the ones with the deep light dispersion lenses in. 1/4 inch deep dome, a convex on out side and flat on the back... get a bit of refraction going on
and on a car with lamps that need to be seen from side and front (modern mainly, few have totally flat or recessed lenses these days ), the positioning of the collection of LEDs in the unit and the unit length is important, stuff that caused no worries with a bulb needs to be considerd.

if you don't care about resto standards any ageing housing that housed a bulb for a coloured lamp. can be greatly improved for bulb or LED use, by painting the interior white. this casues enhanced glow across the full lens, in the specified colour, rather than making the intensity of a central beam of light stronger which is more like what you get with a silvered reflector in a head lamp. it just scatters the light better than the untreated pot metal surface of some of the units, and gives a more uniform look to the lens when light is off on a sunny day

not for everyone but not a waste of time either.



Dave
Just received and installed these 1157 red LED:
Amazon product ASIN B08H8M8LB4In side-side comparison, they are brighter than the filament 1157 and the lens looks redder and more uniform. With a white LED or filament bulb, the lens appears a bit yellowish and dull. I ordered a similar red 1156 LED so the running lights in the trunk hood match since they now look poor with a filament bulb. It seems the end LED's with projector lens helps a lot, with many small LED's around the circumference to give uniform lighting. I didn't paint the interior housing white, and don't need to with these bulbs. I just hope they meet the claimed 30K hr life. I tried an 1156 LED over a decade ago in my M-B which looked nice with a funky finned heat sink and it failed in 2 sec.

I also ordered an "LED flasher". It states "motorcycles", but "should work" since similar-looking ones state for cars too. Picked that one because you can adjust the flashing rate.
2Pin 12V Electronic LED Flasher Relay Fix Turn Signal Bulbs Hyper Flash Issue US | eBay
 
Amazon product ASIN B01MY4T4BU
I bought these rear brake lights a year ago or so. One bulb was DOA, but they sent me two more. They are very bright compared to the 1157. Dont know how long they will last, but I like them so far. I didnt do a lot of research, I just bought the highest rated one with the most Reviews.
 
that flasher will be ok i'd think just make sure B and L are in the same positions as B and L on the one you take off.
 
Amazon product ASIN B01MY4T4BU
I bought these rear brake lights a year ago or so. One bulb was DOA, but they sent me two more. They are very bright compared to the 1157. Dont know how long they will last, but I like them so far. I didnt do a lot of research, I just bought the highest rated one with the most Reviews.
Looks like exactly the same as LED's I bought, and both are "Amazon Choice", but 70% higher cost. Apparently, the bald-guy can choice two vendors for the same product, why he's a multi-billionaire and we're still peasants.
 
Looks like exactly the same as LED's I bought, and both are "Amazon Choice", but 70% higher cost. Apparently, the bald-guy can choice two vendors for the same product, why he's a multi-billionaire and we're still peasants.
Yeah, I have noticed that a lot on Amazon. Same product, different prices. I think that I should be giving my business to locals more often, but I often can’t find what I want. Parts store guys are often clueless now.

I have learned to enjoy life as a peasant. Part of that is not caring about the media personalities. My wife says I shouldn’t check out, but ignorance is sure bliss….
 
Just received these 1156 red LED for the running lamps in the trunk lid. A perfect match to the 1157 running lamps, a nice uniform red with similar brightness. Much better than the yellowish tint those lamps showed with a white LED or a filament bulb. Look for ones with many surface mount LED's and some bright LED's behind a projector lens in the end. Still waiting for the "LED flasher".
Amazon product ASIN B089NNCNYP
 
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