Turn Signal Troubles

-
With the connector UNhooked from the TS switch, and your rear harness kick panel connector UNhooked, you should have the following power:

Top wire, 18W (White) should have power when you apply the brake

4th wire down, 18R (Red) should have power from the TS flasher

5th wire down, no 18P (Pink) should have power from the hazard flasher

Hook a clip lead to a power source.

Clip it to 6th pin down, 18T (Tan) and ONLY the right front signal bulb should light, and the dash turn indicator if it works


Clip power to 7th from the top 18 LGN (Light GreeN) and ONLY the left front signal bulb and the left dash turn indicator should light
Attached Images[URL="http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=1714753023&stc=1&d=1410315145"][/URL]

Also, you can check the TS switch is / is not the problem by DISCONNECTING the TS switch

Do so and.........

apply the brake. You should get nothing anywhere. If something lights up, it's in the harness probably under the hood.

I will try this and post the results in the next day.....

THANKS again guys for all your help
 
moparlover said:
sounds like the wiring in back left is crisscrossed or someone modified something.

make sure that the sockets are clean, everything has good grounds and no wires have been added/removed.

a brand new full rear wiring harness is about 45 bucks from year one if you want to go that route... it's one of the more reasonably priced harnesses.
Click to expand...

the back left sockets are wired wrong / criss crossed / shorted somehow

whoever the bozo is that recommended him pulling his steering column apart first and changing a switch before checking the wires: good job you are killing me

again. new harness from doors back was only $45 bucks

but you can fix what you have. you need to unplug the rear harness connector up by the drivers kick panel that connects the back harness. get a meter. remove the bulbs. check each wire for connectivity / shorts on all 8 of the wires.

your entire rear harness looks somethign like this:

View attachment MB2462.jpg

unplug it first before checking each wire, dont leave it plugged in
 
So why with the plug un-pluged inside the kick panel going to the rear of the car I still have the same going on with the front turn signal....
If I unplug the rear harness plug and turn the left trun signal on the front flashes like normal but if i put the break on the front blug light full brightness like the breaks are applied and the flasher inside the dash stops flashing. This was explained in a few screens ago.



moparlover said:
the back left sockets are wired wrong / criss crossed / shorted somehow

whoever the bozo is that recommended him pulling his steering column apart first and changing a switch before checking the wires: good job you are killing me

again. new harness from doors back was only $45 bucks

but you can fix what you have. you need to unplug the rear harness connector up by the drivers kick panel that connects the back harness. get a meter. remove the bulbs. check each wire for connectivity / shorts on all 8 of the wires.

your entire rear harness looks somethign like this:

View attachment 1714753071

unplug it first before checking each wire, dont leave it plugged in
Click to expand...
 
i found a page with an excellent explanation of how the turn signal / brake light system works together
here is an excerpt:

When no turn signal is selected, both brake lamps will receive power when the pedal is pushed. When the left turn signal is selected, the brake lamp for the left side is disabled by the turn signal switch, and the bulb now receives power from the flash unit. At the same time, no change has been made to the right side brake lamp. The result: left lamp flashing, right lamp steady with brakes on. Right lamp is out when brakes are off.
Now, switch to the right side. The reverse becomes true: the right side brake lamp is disabled, and power to the lamp is now provided by the flash unit.
Brakes on or off: the left side remains on (no change to the left side) steady with brake power, and off without it.
This is how the two systems are isolated. This is the most problematic issue for a novice to understand, primarily because nobody ever took the time to explain it to them in any detail.
Click to expand...
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/How_do_turn_signals_work?

ok so if you are positively sure that with the rear harness disconnected, the front is acting like a rear signal it's getting brighter with the brakes applied then you have the brake wiring / turn signal wiring crossed in the front half like 67dart273 said. when you put the switch to turn left, the brake light power should be disconnected for the left side and blinker power applied to front and back. so whether your foot is on the brake or not the left side front and back only get flashed power not from the brake pedal switch.

if you are somehow getting switched power to the front with the left turn signal applied and the brake pedal pushed in, then the column wiring like 67dart273 pointed out could be the culprit.

do you have the chassis manual for your year from mymopars? in my experience the colors in the chassis manual are correct, if you go off the other wiring diagrams you might find color mismatches on the wires.
 
moparlover said:
the back left sockets are wired wrong / criss crossed / shorted somehow

whoever the bozo is

unplug it first before checking each wire, dont leave it plugged in
Click to expand...

Be very careful who you call a "bozo" is "bud."

The OP HAS ALREADY STATED that he UNPLUGGED the REAR HARNESS and that the fornt lamps ACT UP

This indicates EXACTLY what I suggested

............

Either the switch is bad

or there is a wire cross in the short harness between the TS switch, bulkhead, and stop switch


THE BRAKE LIGHT POWER is somehow CROSSING to the FRONT LAMPS with the REAR HARNESS disconnected.
 
To the OP:

ARE YOU absolutely CERTAIN that the hazard flasher
switch is turned OFF?
 
basically when the brakes are applied there should never be power suppied from that circuit to the front.

IF his left front and rear were "tied together" by someone previous owner or whoever, then it could cause this
 
well those wires are touching together and they shouldn't be. could be where the wires go into the column, or at the connector, etc. you can use a meter and figure out where the front left turn wire is somehow linked into the brake power. it's got to be after the turn signal switch. the wires coming from the column connector frontL/frontR/rearL/rearR are all independent circuits. unplugging the column connector and testing with a meter you will eventually find the culprit, checking with ohm meter you can find out if any of those 4 wires. download that chassis manual from mymopars if you have not. it's on a separate page from the wiring diagrams.
chassis manuals on this page: http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109
chapter 8 should be electrical, where the diagrams can be found that have CORRECT color codes
 
moparlover said:
well those wires are touching together and they shouldn't be. could be where the wires go into the column, or at the connector, etc. you can use a meter and figure out where the front left turn wire is somehow linked into the brake power. it's got to be after the turn signal switch. the wires coming from the column connector frontL/frontR/rearL/rearR are all independent circuits. unplugging the column connector and testing with a meter you will eventually find the culprit, checking with ohm meter you can find out if any of those 4 wires. download that chassis manual from mymopars if you have not. it's on a separate page from the wiring diagrams.
chassis manuals on this page: http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109
chapter 8 should be electrical, where the diagrams can be found that have CORRECT color codes
Click to expand...

Geez ya know? I think all this has already been said
 
RichardJ916 said:
Nope, nothing was done to the car, It worked before like normal....
Click to expand...

Might be time to take a big breath, step back, have a coke, and 'rethink.'

That is confirm FOR CERTAIN what is going on

Let's do this:

1.......Leave the rear harness unplugged.

2......Work the brake pedal and confirm that one or both of the front lamps are improperly lighting up with the brakes

3......Unhook the TS switch connector and repeat the test. If anything "up front" lights up front............

then there HAS to be a harness problem between the TS switch connector and the bulkhead, IE in that harness area under the dash.

It would also be helpful with two people. Have the other person watch the front lamp, and with the brake pedal depressed and the problem "showing" wiggle the harness around in that area under the dash.

This is assuming that no one has chopped up the wiring, and added something.

Any evidence this ever had something like a "third brake light" up in the rear window?
 
I understand that there should never be power applied to the front so is there a way to remove power to the front to see if the rears work like they sholud, but i still dont understand what needs to be diconnected to see the parts of the system to work.


moparlover said:
basically when the brakes are applied there should never be power suppied from that circuit to the front.

IF his left front and rear were "tied together" by someone previous owner or whoever, then it could cause this
Click to expand...
 
When you said 'replaced the turn signal circuit board inside the wheel' this means that you rpealce the run signal switch assembly in the sterring column? Just want to make sure.

This si then ext easy step to do to isolate this:
" Also, you can check the TS switch is / is not the problem by DISCONNECTING the TS switch. Do so and.........apply the brake. You should get nothing anywhere. If something lights up, it's in the harness probably under the hood."

If the issue still shows up then, then there is a short in the harness. It is getting to the point where 'just do this' or 'disconnect that' is not going to fix the issue. You need to be unwrapping the harness, inspecting the connectors closely for shorted contacts, etc.
 
^^ Yup ^^ I told you step by step what to do. To repeat..................

1....Hook everything up "normal" and hit the brake pedal. Confirm you still have a problem

2....Disconnect the rear harness in the kick panel and hit the brake pedal. Does the front still light up?

3....Disconnect the TS switch at the column connector and hit the brake. If it STILL lights up, the problem HAS TO BE in that little bit of harness under the dash

Understand WHERE the wiring comes and goes to / from

The quite short wire coming out of the brake light switch comes right up to the connector on the TS switch. Look at the diagram I posted. This is the white wire

With the TS switch and the rear harness disconnected, that wire should go "now where."

Coming OUT of the TS switch connector is the two front left and right bulbs. With the TS switch connected, the turn filaments are connected to NOTHING.

Therefore if they light up, the crossover HAS to be under the dash in the harness.
 
OK I will try the last 2 steps tomorrow.... Thanks again for your help.
I will post results then.
Thank again
 
I will try tomorrow, nobody has added anything to the car.
It all worked a few weeks ago, i just noticed it last month...


67Dart273 said:
Might be time to take a big breath, step back, have a coke, and 'rethink.'

That is confirm FOR CERTAIN what is going on

Let's do this:

1.......Leave the rear harness unplugged.

2......Work the brake pedal and confirm that one or both of the front lamps are improperly lighting up with the brakes

3......Unhook the TS switch connector and repeat the test. If anything "up front" lights up front............

then there HAS to be a harness problem between the TS switch connector and the bulkhead, IE in that harness area under the dash.

It would also be helpful with two people. Have the other person watch the front lamp, and with the brake pedal depressed and the problem "showing" wiggle the harness around in that area under the dash.

This is assuming that no one has chopped up the wiring, and added something.

Any evidence this ever had something like a "third brake light" up in the rear window?
Click to expand...
 
OK Going to be testing this for sure.
Thanks

67Dart273 said:
^^ Yup ^^ I told you step by step what to do. To repeat..................

1....Hook everything up "normal" and hit the brake pedal. Confirm you still have a problem

2....Disconnect the rear harness in the kick panel and hit the brake pedal. Does the front still light up?

3....Disconnect the TS switch at the column connector and hit the brake. If it STILL lights up, the problem HAS TO BE in that little bit of harness under the dash

Understand WHERE the wiring comes and goes to / from

The quite short wire coming out of the brake light switch comes right up to the connector on the TS switch. Look at the diagram I posted. This is the white wire

With the TS switch and the rear harness disconnected, that wire should go "now where."

Coming OUT of the TS switch connector is the two front left and right bulbs. With the TS switch connected, the turn filaments are connected to NOTHING.

Therefore if they light up, the crossover HAS to be under the dash in the harness.
Click to expand...
 
Nothing has been added, it all worked a few weeks ago...


67Dart273 said:
Might be time to take a big breath, step back, have a coke, and 'rethink.'

That is confirm FOR CERTAIN what is going on

Let's do this:

1.......Leave the rear harness unplugged.

2......Work the brake pedal and confirm that one or both of the front lamps are improperly lighting up with the brakes

3......Unhook the TS switch connector and repeat the test. If anything "up front" lights up front............

then there HAS to be a harness problem between the TS switch connector and the bulkhead, IE in that harness area under the dash.

It would also be helpful with two people. Have the other person watch the front lamp, and with the brake pedal depressed and the problem "showing" wiggle the harness around in that area under the dash.

This is assuming that no one has chopped up the wiring, and added something.

Any evidence this ever had something like a "third brake light" up in the rear window?
Click to expand...
 
If the trouble turns out to be under the dash to the Bulk head I may just wait till I take out the Dash Cluster this winter, which needs to be done. Needs cleaning and repaiting itself. If the trouble is under the hood I will fix that now, same with harness to rear of car, and trun signal switch, which has all ready been replaced.


Thanks
 
Step 1: All Hooked up Still the Same Trouble
Step 2: Rear Harness disconnected left - right turn signal up front work untill you apply the break
Step 3: Disconected TS Switch No Lights and Rearness no light any where even with break applyed.

But what does happen is when the rear harness is hooked up and TS disconnected
And I hit the Brakes the Right Rear does not light.

Go figure that out….
 
You have two different problems.

Fix the front problem first. This sounds to me like a TS switch problem. Didn't you say you tried a different switch? Did that CHANGE anything?

You still don't seem to have learned to check things. You need to draw out the connections on the TS switch. Get a test lamp or meter and check them out. I already outlined how. Just follow the colors step by step
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top