**Twin Turbo 67 Dart Project**

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Be interesting to see how long the alternator lives, even with heat blankets and what not....
 
inkjunkie said:
Be interesting to see how long the alternator lives, even with heat blankets and what not....
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I thought about that also. I may build a heat deflector shield that wraps around the alternator. I will buy the one from NAPA with the Lifetime Guarantee so if it takes a chittt, I get it for free!:-D

On the import cars they must have the same issues I would think.

If you think about it the exhaust will only FLARE up under major boost right?? Just crusing the car around it should be ok is my thinking. I will never hold it down for more than 8.8 seconds at a time right?? haaaaa
 
Was watching some you tube videos of boosted stuff the other day, exhaust got cherry red almost instantly on a few of them. Know nothing about this stuff but what I have read. Page 62 of "Street Turbocharging" makes mention that schedule 40 weld els are adequate for most turbo applications. Goes on to say that for long term durability and strength at the high temperatures in a turbo application, it is generally recommended that schedule 40 or thicker be used. Considering it is going to take a bit of boost to do what you want to do it has me wondering how the thin tubing of a set of mild steel headers will hold up, as well as what effect that long tube from the collector to the turbo will have. Most, if not all, of the turbo headers I have seen have the turbo flange at the end of the collector. Again, I know next to nothing about turbocharging, just thinking out loud. I understand that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.... I do know that years ago I helped a friend with drag car on a regular basis. His headers were Jet Hot coated, and you could literally grab the headers 30 seconds after the car had made a pass down the strip...might want to consider coating instead of heat wraps and blankets....
 
inkjunkie said:
Was watching some you tube videos of boosted stuff the other day, exhaust got cherry red almost instantly on a few of them. Know nothing about this stuff but what I have read. Page 62 of "Street Turbocharging" makes mention that schedule 40 weld els are adequate for most turbo applications. Goes on to say that for long term durability and strength at the high temperatures in a turbo application, it is generally recommended that schedule 40 or thicker be used. Considering it is going to take a bit of boost to do what you want to do it has me wondering how the thin tubing of a set of mild steel headers will hold up, as well as what effect that long tube from the collector to the turbo will have. Most, if not all, of the turbo headers I have seen have the turbo flange at the end of the collector. Again, I know next to nothing about turbocharging, just thinking out loud. I understand that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.... I do know that years ago I helped a friend with drag car on a regular basis. His headers were Jet Hot coated, and you could literally grab the headers 30 seconds after the car had made a pass down the strip...might want to consider coating instead of heat wraps and blankets....
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I have checked into Jet Hot Coating High Heat HVT Paint etc. I will not be wrapping the exhaust at all.

Mostly from what I have researched is the turbo Flange is what gets really hot. I will be running no more than 15lbs of boost most likely alot less to get to my goal with the engine itself making close to 500hp on its own. So Right around 8-9 lbs of boost should get me there.
The Meth should also help to get the Exhaust Gas Temperatures down some I would think.

I know of several guys running the same type of set up on the exhaust with good success even at 15+ lbs of boost. This is not a daily driver so I think It will be ok until I upgrade like I almost always do.

Good thing about these threads is everyone gets to learn what works and what doesn't without spending any of their own $$$, I would say that is a pretty good thing:-D
 
Well on the plus side when you come out to the crusie we can use your turbos to cook on!!! Grill!? We don't need no stinking grill! LOL
 
Looking at your pictures, in particular the one with the exhaust stub in the turbo. I have a favor to ask. Once you get it all done and the exhaust in it, could you video tape the first time you go to pull the plugs? It looks like it will be a major nightmare......but I guess it is a part of the price you pay to haul *** :-D
 
inkjunkie said:
Looking at your pictures, in particular the one with the exhaust stub in the turbo. I have a favor to ask. Once you get it all done and the exhaust in it, could you video tape the first time you go to pull the plugs? It looks like it will be a major nightmare......but I guess it is a part of the price you pay to haul *** :-D
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Come on now Doug, are you picking on me today?? Of course it will be a pain in the ***, it is a MOPAR right?
If need be I will put a V Band flange right before the exhaust turns down at the firewall and just pop that pipe out to do the plugs! I will figure something out.

I starred at this project for at least 15 hours and tried to come up with all the problems that I would be up against before I started it. I know I missed something though!

Keep it coming maybe I didn't already think of something and you guys can figure it out for me!

Kind of like a Gotomeeting or something.
 
Sorry, just having a bad day. Idea of the second v-band flange so you can pipe out the down pipe would solve it, that is for sure. Would you still have had to notch the frame if you went with oval tubing, similar to http://www.spintechmufflers.com/oval-round-tubing/oval-tubing/cat_41.html ? Might make the drivers side a bit easier, considering the steering box is in the way? Might need to do something funky for the turbo flange....
 
Damn Louis...you're gonna have skidmarks on the back of your tshirt the first time you mash this thing.
 
Wait a minute, 500 HP plus 9 pounds of boost = 800 HP? And nothing bulging through the hood. In a 3000 pound car that hooks, don't you need a special license to go that fast (under 10 seconds, 9 seconds, 8 seconds?). Holly Molly, this car is going to be in a magazine or two. My kid loves turbos, if he sees this thread he might get some dangerous ideas, LOL.
 
Say, I have the same headers on our 318ci Single Turbo and they work great. Not anymore heat than normal. Build looks awesome. later
Ryan
 
inkjunkie said:
Sorry, just having a bad day. Idea of the second v-band flange so you can pipe out the down pipe would solve it, that is for sure. Would you still have had to notch the frame if you went with oval tubing, similar to http://www.spintechmufflers.com/oval-round-tubing/oval-tubing/cat_41.html ? Might make the drivers side a bit easier, considering the steering box is in the way? Might need to do something funky for the turbo flange....
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No biggy Doug, my day was in the shitter also!

Anyway I got home today and the spark plugs will go in without any other modifications. I need to use an extension with a swivel on the end is all....

I don't need to notch the K Frame for the exhaust. I will be running Dual 3.5" Pipe to an X Pipe to mufflers and dumped at the axle.

Both sides of my down pipes should exit in about the same area. I will however need to move my brake lines how they come off the master cylinder but I was going to run new lines anyway so no big deal.

On a single turbo where the exhaust is 4-5" plus is where you will have problems I believe.
 
I think you should look into the log header idea, assuming it's what I'm thinking (similar to what old military jeeps had). It would give you room to not have to cut the fenders...maybe.
 
More........................

I had to cut the drivers side motor mounting tab to clear the exhaust. Some guys run the Exhaust under the K FRAME when using the block hugger headers. I figure the front end is more than likely going to see some air so I decided to run them on top of the K Frame.

Since I will be making my own Solid Motor mounts I will take care of doing a gusset on the back side somewhere when the mock up motor is back out.

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I will be reworking this area here when the motor is back out. I will move the motor mount up about 1.5-2" when I end up making them and I will also reinforce this area with some type of gussets etc

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turbo66valiant said:
Say, I have the same headers on our 318ci Single Turbo and they work great. Not anymore heat than normal. Build looks awesome. later
Ryan
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Cool Ryan, I seen your build on the 318 Dart Turbo on theturboforums.com ,
that 318 moves some pavement not to mention your Slant 6 car...........DAMN!!

A member here also shot me over some pics of your plumbing that I got some ideas from.
 
your build looks great.

sorry to burst on your bubble, but i have a few questions to ask..
i build high h.p awd turbo mitsubishi eclipse's for a living, and have learned quite a bit through the years

are you going to be running these turbo's right from the start, while the engine is breaking in?
do you have any prior turbo knowledge?
have you ever used ebay turbo's before?

the reason i ask about using these turbo as the engine breaks in, is because i believe they are a journal bearing turbo. they have a thrust plate inside them, rather than a more expensive ball bearing style. they tend to not last very long when used on a engine that is fresh. the minute metalic partices in the oil from the rings seating, and the bearings starts to collect on the oil galley on the thrust plate of the turbo, and quickly tears up the brass bearings.
also, the cheap ebay turbo's have horrible factory balancing. with any amount of boost, they tend to break turbine shafts very easy.


the reason i bring this stuff up is because i see all the work you are putting into your setup. and once done, and you start haveing turbo issues and have to switch to another more expensive turbo, you will have horrible amounts of refabbing to do to fit the new ones. doing work 2x's get very frustrating.'
EBAY TURBO'S WILL NOT LAST
i have had customers insist on me putting them on their cars, and have not had a single one last over 3,000 miles.
wastegates are the same way. they are made from cheap materials, and i am sure they will give you gobs of issues with boost creep out the wazoo.
i wish you the best, but when buying a turbo, you get what you pay for.

a good turbo in the size of flow that you are using go for about 1600.00 each. now if you bought 2 for less than 200.00 , then you know there is a reason for that
 
340plot said:
your build looks great.

sorry to burst on your bubble, but i have a few questions to ask..
i build high h.p awd turbo mitsubishi eclipse's for a living, and have learned quite a bit through the years

are you going to be running these turbo's right from the start, while the engine is breaking in?
do you have any prior turbo knowledge?
have you ever used ebay turbo's before?

the reason i ask about using these turbo as the engine breaks in, is because i believe they are a journal bearing turbo. they have a thrust plate inside them, rather than a more expensive ball bearing style. they tend to not last very long when used on a engine that is fresh. the minute metalic partices in the oil from the rings seating, and the bearings starts to collect on the oil galley on the thrust plate of the turbo, and quickly tears up the brass bearings.
also, the cheap ebay turbo's have horrible factory balancing. with any amount of boost, they tend to break turbine shafts very easy.


the reason i bring this stuff up is because i see all the work you are putting into your setup. and once done, and you start haveing turbo issues and have to switch to another more expensive turbo, you will have horrible amounts of refabbing to do to fit the new ones. doing work 2x's get very frustrating.'
EBAY TURBO'S WILL NOT LAST
i have had customers insist on me putting them on their cars, and have not had a single one last over 3,000 miles.
wastegates are the same way. they are made from cheap materials, and i am sure they will give you gobs of issues with boost creep out the wazoo.
i wish you the best, but when buying a turbo, you get what you pay for.

a good turbo in the size of flow that you are using go for about 1600.00 each. now if you bought 2 for less than 200.00 , then you know there is a reason for that
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First off you would be wrong I did not pay less than $200.00 for 2 Turbo's. Those ones are the CHEAPER POS's that you are talking about. I don't believe you are installing these turbo's on your customers cars. They are the less expensive units that even LOOK CHEAP per your comment above. Your comment about EBAY Turbo's is a Broad one putting EVERY one of them in the same box.

Also the wastegates that I am using have the EXACT SAME DIAPHRAM in them as the $600+++ Dollar TIAL gates. The replacement is to use it specifically!
How do I know this? I tore them apart and inspected them AFTER I did all the research. The valve is SOLID STAINLESS STEEL and the guides are also. The SEAL is made from VITON which is the exact same material used in your high dollar Valve Seals when you get your heads done.


Also this BUILD has nothing to do about being SHORT on CASH because I have Plenty of $$ and can build WHATEVER I want! Those on this site who know me know this is a FACT. I could also PAY someone to do all this work but I CHOOSE not to. I enjoy doing it and it is a release for me.

This build is about the AVERAGE GUY that does not have a bunch of $$, he too can build a set up like this without the BIG bucks that it would usually take to do it.

So you are saying you have installed one of these EXACT TURBO's and they failed??? Please start YOUR OWN thread on the subject with Documentation, PICTURES and DATA to back it up! Don't use key strokes to do it!!

Well I have done my research and most have had great success with these turbo's. Of course there are some that have failed but Garret, Precision, Master Power etc and the like have had the same failures but nobody wants to talk about that after spending BIG $$ on them. Even your high dollar wastegates and blow off valves have had issues and if you say any different you would be kidding yourself.

No the engine will be dyno'd without them, the engine in the car is a mock engine. The Turbo's will be torn apart inspected, cleaned and then installed on the car and taken to the Chassis Dyno for tuning.
This is NOT my first Rodeo.

So you are saying that you need to spend BIG BUCKS to make reliable Power?? If that is the case you need to look here............

4 Seasons running in the 8's on JUNK PIECE OF **** GT45Yk2004 EBAY TURBO's with NO Problems as of Yet and he NEVER took them apart and even inspected them.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6VdAHJFh3Y"]YouTube - Mike's 1967 Ebay Twin Turbo Powered BBC[/ame]

There are several guys here that use them with Great Success for example a guy running a 327 Chevy no turbo specific camshaft, heads that flow only 240cfm with a blow thru carb knocking down 9.80 quarter mile times consistantly with ONE of these exact turbo's. No problems EVER!!

This thread is dedicated to the Turbo's I am using and there is NOBODY that I have found that has HANDS ON EXPERIENCE with this EXACT TURBO that I am using that the Seals Leaked, came apart or anything else. It is all HEARSAY from NON PLAYERS that like to shoot their mouths off on the internet. The guys that say EBAY turbo's are JUNK are putting every EBAY turbo in the same box which is pretty unfair to say the least.

I can see it now a guy working in his garage all excited about his new toy. Hitting the throttle while his friend is under the hood and the turbo sucks up a RAG. or HEY hand me the timing light, he turns to grab it and BOUNCES a wrench off the Inducer. Well these turbo's are JUNK and the story goes on...................

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96046.0

There are also ALOT of Diesel guys pushing these EXACT Turbo's to over 55lbs of Boost beating the CRAP out of them and they LIVE!! Do your own research and you will see.

I believe that MOST of the failures WE are talking about are INSTALLER Caused from people that don't have a clue what they are doing and NEVER should be attempting a task like this on their own. Just LOOK at the Pictures of these people set ups and installation jobs and you will know right away they NEVER even should have attempted the task.

Please don't get me wrong I do not claim to be an expert but I have done enough research to Prove my point over that last 2 months on the parts I have chosen to use.

This build is costing NOBODY but myself time and $$$ for everyone else to learn from. If these Turbo's take a crap on me then that's what happens. In the process all who see it will learn from what I am doing. Just so you know I prove doubters wrong on a REGULAR basis and that is what this build is all about. I will post ALL my findings and I will have Documentation, Pictures, DATA and the Experience to Back EVERYTHING up with REAL WORLD findings!! NOT a keyboard and the words of someone else.

Also with the kind of questions you are starting threads about that I just found here............

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=102825

I do not believe you have ALL the experience you say you do! I believe MOST will agree with me and take take your post as a GRAIN OF SALT just as I thought BEFORE I found your thread ........ KEYBOARD ASASSINATION of all ebay turbo's in general with NO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE!

That is all I gotta say about that. So I am carrying on..................
 
awsome project, looks wild.its nice to actually open a thread that has "turbo dart" in the title and its actually getting done, not just bs'ing about it. well done!
 
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