ultamite 340 stroker

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Blue Missile,

I have built 2 resto-strokers... the 1st is dead because we tried to force a roller cam in (after using ceramics and had bad luck) and broke through to the water jackets (see 4th pix).

Current build is a siamese block over .060 - (could have gone bigger... lots of meat left) to 422. Intakes are 2.08 and cam is slightly hotter solid (246/250). Only made 526HP (at 5900, not near your 6500) and 537 of TQ but has a nice broad curve. 600 is certainly possible, but the compromise on drivability was more than I was up for (and this is a 4 speed car).

Looking at your specs I am not sure about the dual plane manifold - could have been my set-up but we made more HP and TQ with the Victor. You may want to try a couple of different manifolds while you have the motor on the dyno. If I had it to do again I would have probably gone INDY .... perhaps motor 3!

Also - check your wintage tray - the 4 bolt mains on the block were an issue for me but I did this years ago and maybe that was solved (see pix)

I will admit I grossly overspent and wasted some dollars.... but I think the budget you mentioned may be "exposed". Some the items you mentioned (like remote oiling and pre-lubing) and get real expensive... (I though some of those pix in also!).

I have attached some pix - keep us posted.

Kory

DynoRun s.jpg


Tray 1 (Small).JPG


Tray on Engine Final 1.jpg


100_0877 (Small).jpg


Thermostat and junction (Medium).JPG


Front Oil Lines cooler (Medium).JPG
 
kory,
nice engine compartment,
The choice of manifold was at Ryan's suggestion. I was going to run something else but when he found out that I had my original LD340 he said use that.
Let me ask a few questions:
Is the item under the yellow ball valve handle an electric selonoid?
Is the item attached to the long leg of the TEE a pressure switch?
auto pre-oiling is definately the way to go.
 
Kory, that was the area of the block I was talking about... That blows...

Andrew, The clock I'd do for your build would not be an MP block. IIRC they are about 50lbs heavier than a stock LA and have questionable cylinder thicknesses. Plus, at 600 hp with good parts and good machining, I think you're safe. I would go Program 2-bolt steel caps on all 4 mains (#5 is fine) with studs. The block would get extra drainback holes and deburring, lifter bore bushings (that eliminates the tubes), the cross over tube (because of sustained high rpms) and enlarged main feeds. FOr the oil system, I would use a standard volume wet sump, wit the relief shimmed to get me 70psi. The MP high pressure spring kit is usually around 60... You would run a good oil pan, probably a custom Canton unit incorporating baffles and windage control, and a crank scraper. High rpm endurance is about controlling the oil carefully, and having enough sump volume. I dont think you need an accumulator, but a good cooler is always a plus when it's hot and you're going all out. You dont need a dry sump. Not for something you want to drive around..lol.
 
I don't know the rules you would be running under,
but I'd be looking at forced induction,injection and crank triggers.
 
moper said:
Kory, that was the area of the block I was talking about... That blows...

Andrew, The clock I'd do for your build would not be an MP block. IIRC they are about 50lbs heavier than a stock LA and have questionable cylinder thicknesses. Plus, at 600 hp with good parts and good machining, I think you're safe. I would go Program 2-bolt steel caps on all 4 mains (#5 is fine) with studs. The block would get extra drainback holes and deburring, lifter bore bushings (that eliminates the tubes), the cross over tube (because of sustained high rpms) and enlarged main feeds. FOr the oil system, I would use a standard volume wet sump, wit the relief shimmed to get me 70psi. The MP high pressure spring kit is usually around 60... You would run a good oil pan, probably a custom Canton unit incorporating baffles and windage control, and a crank scraper. High rpm endurance is about controlling the oil carefully, and having enough sump volume. I dont think you need an accumulator, but a good cooler is always a plus when it's hot and you're going all out. You dont need a dry sump. Not for something you want to drive around..lol.
Click to expand...

moper,

I agree with you that the block is heavy and probably overkill... but the walls were very thick. My 1st b;lock, which was not siamese, was not as thi=ck but I ran the +.060 with still room to go. In any case I do agree it is not necessary.

blue missile .. your questions:

Is the item under the yellow ball valve handle an electric selonoid?
yes
Is the item attached to the long leg of the TEE a pressure switch?
no, temperature probe for the oil temp guage
auto pre-oiling is definately the way to go.

Kory
 
I ran the Crane retrofit hydraulic lifters in mine and only had to do minor grinding:

LifterGrindAreas.jpg
 
In 2006 I started a "Stroker eng" and its done BUT !! it cost more than what I thought at first so watch out.. I recommend a book called How to build Big-inch Mopar small blocks by Jim Szilagy lots of tips..
Good luck.. Dave at NW_CUDA
 
340sFastback,

Looks nice and you are right but the resto-blocks are different - if you look at the area between the lifters it is wider and thick.

Engine from Hughes.JPG
 
360Z28 said:
may or may not be a stupid question, but did you sonic test that area first before the grinding? thanks.
Click to expand...

I didn't sonic that area but I only had to remove about .025" or so. It was very minimal grinding.

Also, I believe Brian at Indio Motor Machines sells retrofit roller lifters for solid cams where the link bar is toward the inside of the engine:

http://www.immengines.com/
 
Mopar Action built up a killer Valiant a few years back to run Car & Driver's Cannonball. Managed to surprise a few folks before it encountered problems. As I recall, the car was called "the Brick". Later MA did a feature on the build up. Those articles are sure to have a few ideas.

If you're going to run the Silver State for the first time, they are not going to let you run pedal to the metal first time out. In fact they will disqualify you if you run too fast. Check out http://www.silverstateclassic.com

Recommend the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap if you want to go dual plane, Victor if single plane.

Suggest adjustable brake proportioning valve. Also some duct work to cool brakes.

Put a lateral link on the rear axle. You can buy a Panhard bar off the shelf. I prefer (and use) a fabricated Watt's link.
 
I'd be sticking a roller cam in that thing to get the power levels up to somewhere near what you want, and still be a driver. Rollers can be added to the resto block. You just have to chose the correct rollers and "hand grind" for clearance. Not for the faint of heart but it can be done.

clearance005.jpg

clearance002.jpg

clearance001.jpg

Rotatingassembly008-2.jpg
Rotatingassembly006-2.jpg
 
lenweiler,

Nice rollers - I'm jealous. One question - why was the center webbing opened up (the holes down the center of your block were opened up to the long oblong holes found in a stock block). Top picture is the area I am referencing in a stock resto-block (at least the two I had) and 2nd pix is your block.

Thanks,
Kory

Engine from Hughes.jpg


clearance005.jpg
 
koryliss said:
lenweiler,

Nice rollers - I'm jealous. One question - why was the center webbing opened up (the holes down the center of your block were opened up to the long oblong holes found in a stock block). Top picture is the area I am referencing in a stock resto-block (at least the two I had) and 2nd pix is your block.

Thanks,
Kory
Click to expand...

It's been awhile. I believe Ryan J at SD said it was the later repro block, but it could have been the earlier block. I added the other holes beside the lifters to help oil drainback. Stop the "puddling". The rollers are actually Crane pieces, but they could be had from MP. Forget the part numbers. Have to get that number again in case something goes amiss, or I build a bigger stroker.
 
340, A std LA (production) block may not need any grinding at all for the link bars. It's the MP blocks that do because of the different valley core. On the openigns into the cam bore... I don't think it's by part number... I think the early ones had the larger oval openings and were closer to a factory block with thicker cyl walls and 4bolt main caps. The later ones do not have the same valley casting core, and should be sonic tested to verify how big they can go. I know of more than a couple that were only able to be safely bored to 4.07 because of MP's famous core shift... Len did a nice job, I think the only way to really do it by hand is one pair at a time, with the cam in place, and going real careful to make sure they just clear.

Ryans got a bunch of block programs. I think he can shave off close to 75lbs in iron from them for the sprint cars.
 
moper,

1st - perhaps a stupid question... but who is Ryan?

To your point on meat - here is a sonic test of a Ssiamese resto block... I took it to 4.1 but 4.125 would have been a no-brainer... With a 4.18 crank that would be 447 cubes!

2nd pix is the 1st resto block I tried - not siamese.

Kory

SonicTest Siameze.jpg


SonicTest Non-Siameze.jpg
 
OK guys,
Lets try this again. 92 octane gas.
After revewing dozens of cams and the possible piston choices I have narrowed it down to three pistons and two cams.
I was intreigued by the folks at Hughes hawking their cams, but they will not give me advertised numbers so I can not calculate DCR or cranking pressures.
Street manners are part of the equasion because this car will be driven to all functions, it will see zero trailer time.
How high can I push it? Dont forget aluminum heads w/ TBCs
Your expesience and opinions are of value to me
Thanks
Andrew

BASED ON EDELBROCK 63cc CLOSED CHAMBER HEADS, .039” HEAD GASKET, 4,07” BORE, 4”STORKE, 6.123”CONNECTING ROD

Comp cams XE285HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51410- 0 DECK
Static compression ratio of 10.19:1.
Effective stroke is 3.01 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.80:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 153.83 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 145

Comp cams XE285HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51411-0 DECK
MILLED TO 11:1
Static compression ratio of 11.0:1.
Effective stroke is 3.01 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.41:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 169.59 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 159

Comp cams XE285HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51411-0 DECK
Static compression ratio of 11.58:1.
Effective stroke is 3.01 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.84:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 180.84 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 170

Comp cams XE285HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51007 –0 DECK
Static compression ratio of 11.92:1.
Effective stroke is 3.01 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 9.10:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 187.69 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 176


Comp cams XE295HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51410- 0 DECK
Static compression ratio of 10.19:1.
Effective stroke is 2.86 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.45:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 144.89 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 129

Comp cams XE295HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51411-0 DECK
MILLED TO 11:1
Static compression ratio of 11.:1.
Effective stroke is 2.86 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.03:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 159.75 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 143

Comp cams XE295HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51411-0 DECK
Static compression ratio of 11.58:1.
Effective stroke is 2.86 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.44:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 170.38 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 152

Comp cams XE295HL W/
DIAMOND PISTON #51007 –0 DECK
Static compression ratio of 11.92:1.
Effective stroke is 2.86 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.69:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 176.90 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 158

 
2nd one would be esier to tune, the last one will make most power. Pressures over 185psi are asking for issues with 91 octane 8:1 will not be as snappy, especially with a tight convertor.

On hughes, it's typical for thier opinion of themselves. Everythign is Code 5 top secret.
 
I see you are going to run the Roads lifters. You are also going with a high volume oil pump. The 'bleed down' lifters work on the principle that as rpm increases so does oil pressure and volume, as rpm increases the engine 'sees' more lift and duration right up to the rated spec of the cam. By running a high output oil pump you will be defeating the purpose of the bleed down lifters. You might not see much benefit from their use with a high output pump. Ask me how I know, LOL. Just something else to consider. Good luck on your build up, and keep us posted.

Terry
 
Moper & D-mailman,
First of all thank you for responding.
Moper the 8:1 is a dynamic ratio the static on that one is 11:1, my uneducated chioce is the 285w/11:1 pistons.
As far as Hughes goes,it amazes me that in such a competitive buisnes, that a manufacturer would not bend over backwards to supply pertenint information to prospective buyer. What can you say?

D-mailman: You know, that's why I put the whole list out there. Thank you for bringing up a very valid point. I assume by your comment that you have first hand experience with the Rhoads issue.Which do you think has a bigger factor in their function volume or pressure? The LA blocks have had some oiling issues in the past hence the MP oiling modification crossover in the lifter valley.I will have that mod done but I don't know if the issue is really pressure or volume.
In my day job I build buildings to specs that are way over the top for a comfortable margin of error. I plan on building the engine and car the same way, hence the high vol/high pressure oil pump.
I do not however want to negate the function of the Rhoads lifters which not only give you more vacuum but by changing the DCR give you more torque down low.
The way I see it I have three choices: 1-standard oil pump, 2high vol standard pressure, 3 high press/high vol.
I am up for further enlightenment.
Thanks again
Andrew
 
Blue, hughes had some good ideas. Not his, more like Harold's from Ultradyne back int he 70s, but he did alright. They are just trying to keep business up. I can't fault him for that. For me it means out of many cams I've run, I've only ever run one of his. Some builders care and it's important, some simply don't. I understood the numbers. I just tossed out some basic guidelines because in several cases the math result is about the same for different parts. A smaller cam will still idle better and develop more pressure at low engine speeds, a bigger one will make more power. Pretty simple really...lol. On the Rhodes lifters, I've always been of the mid that I trust the cam manufactirers to get me what works on thier cams. Rhodes were developed as a crutch in the 80s, similar to the HV oil pumps earlier on.
 
The guy's at ENGLE told me they used to grind the cams hughes until the ramp speeds they requested were equating to flat cams and pissed customers so they parted ways.
 
blue missile said:
Ok guys here it is,
I have plans to build the ultimate stroker for my duster and take it to the Silver State Challange.
Oh yes I will be driving it not trailering it. After That the Power Tour with my son.
I have talkted to Ryan at Shadey Dell about doing the head work and am looking locally for a machine shop to do the engine work. I have done some mods on engines but this one would require a learning curve I don't want to experience right now.
Let's imagine for a moment that money is not a factor.
Call me crazy, rail on me if you wish but here is the list of the intended set up.
What are your thoughts, comments?

ENGINE DISCRIPTION
INDUCTION
-Selectable hood scoop- Induction/Ram-air
-4"x14"full flow air filter w/filter element top
-Speed demon ANNULAR 850cfm w/vac secondaries
-Edelbrock LD-340 dual-plane intake manifold with milled center divider, ported and gasket matched, bottom coated w/ thermal barrier coating.
HEADS
-Stage Three Preped- Edelbrock performer aluminum heads w/2.02" intake valves & 1.60" exhaust valves.
Both valve faces and combustion chambers thermal barrier coated.
Additional water plumbed to heads, valve guides to be coated with Tech Lines's-WSX lubricant
-1.6:1-ratio roller rockers.
-Chromed banana grooved rocker shafts (DFL coated)
-High lift (.620") springs/retainers & 7deg.Locks (Hughes eng)
-Chrome/molly pushrods
-Cast aluminum valve covers
BLOCK
-340 Mopar replacement block with basic prep and the following work added:
bored .030" over, upper end crossover oiling modification as per Mopar Performance Publ.
Cylinder bores & lifter bores WSX coated
-Comp-cams XE-285HL -285/297 Adv.--241/247 @.05-- .581"/.581" lift (lobes DFL coated)
-6.123" H-beam billet 4340 connecting rods with ARP bolts
-Forged 4" stroker crank internally balanced
-Diamond racing forged 10.25:1 (63cc chambers) stroker pistons- piston tops coated with thermal barrier coating (7.91 dynamic comp ratio/ 189 psi. Cyl. Press)
-Total Seal's Top gapless ring set.
-Full groove main bearings. All bearings to be coated with Tech Line's baked-on dry film lubricant.
-Melling high volume/pressure oil pump
-ARP head and mains stud kits
-Rhoads VMAX variable hydraulic lifters (DFL coated)
-Milodon or equivalent gear drive
-Milodon deep sump oil pan with appropriate pick-up
-Mopar windage tray
-High volume electric water pump
ENGINE ACCESSIORIES
-Electronic ignition MSD 6AL box and dist.
-Mancini light weight starter
-Rigid torque strap
-Dual remote oil filtration w/ Pure Power filters, and an automatic pre-start oiling system
-By-Pass oil filtration
-Holley 14-PSI pump w/ regulator and Perma-cool 25 GPM fuel filter & 3/8" fuel lines
-Patriot ceramic coated Shorty headers 1 5/8" x 2.5""collector
-X-pipe 2.5" exhaust w/ Hooker Aero-chamber mufflers, w/ variable vacuum producing afterburners
EXPECTED OUTPUT: 600 H.P. @ 6500 RPM WITH 550 FT.LBS. OF TORQUE @ 5000 RPM

For those of you who are old enough think "Highway Star" and "Space Trucking"
Andrew
Click to expand...
Sorry I didn't read all the way through.
 
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