ultamite 340 stroker

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blue missile

blue missile

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Ok guys here it is,
I have plans to build the ultimate stroker for my duster and take it to the Silver State Challange.
Oh yes I will be driving it not trailering it. After That the Power Tour with my son.
I have talkted to Ryan at Shadey Dell about doing the head work and am looking locally for a machine shop to do the engine work. I have done some mods on engines but this one would require a learning curve I don't want to experience right now.
Let's imagine for a moment that money is not a factor.
Call me crazy, rail on me if you wish but here is the list of the intended set up.
What are your thoughts, comments?

ENGINE DISCRIPTION
INDUCTION
-Selectable hood scoop- Induction/Ram-air
-4"x14"full flow air filter w/filter element top
-Speed demon ANNULAR 850cfm w/vac secondaries
-Edelbrock LD-340 dual-plane intake manifold with milled center divider, ported and gasket matched, bottom coated w/ thermal barrier coating.
HEADS
-Stage Three Preped- Edelbrock performer aluminum heads w/2.02" intake valves & 1.60" exhaust valves.
Both valve faces and combustion chambers thermal barrier coated.
Additional water plumbed to heads, valve guides to be coated with Tech Lines's-WSX lubricant
-1.6:1-ratio roller rockers.
-Chromed banana grooved rocker shafts (DFL coated)
-High lift (.620") springs/retainers & 7deg.Locks (Hughes eng)
-Chrome/molly pushrods
-Cast aluminum valve covers
BLOCK
-340 Mopar replacement block with basic prep and the following work added:
bored .030" over, upper end crossover oiling modification as per Mopar Performance Publ.
Cylinder bores & lifter bores WSX coated
-Comp-cams XE-285HL -285/297 Adv.--241/247 @.05-- .581"/.581" lift (lobes DFL coated)
-6.123" H-beam billet 4340 connecting rods with ARP bolts
-Forged 4" stroker crank internally balanced
-Diamond racing forged 10.25:1 (63cc chambers) stroker pistons- piston tops coated with thermal barrier coating (7.91 dynamic comp ratio/ 189 psi. Cyl. Press)
-Total Seal's Top gapless ring set.
-Full groove main bearings. All bearings to be coated with Tech Line's baked-on dry film lubricant.
-Melling high volume/pressure oil pump
-ARP head and mains stud kits
-Rhoads VMAX variable hydraulic lifters (DFL coated)
-Milodon or equivalent gear drive
-Milodon deep sump oil pan with appropriate pick-up
-Mopar windage tray
-High volume electric water pump
ENGINE ACCESSIORIES
-Electronic ignition MSD 6AL box and dist.
-Mancini light weight starter
-Rigid torque strap
-Dual remote oil filtration w/ Pure Power filters, and an automatic pre-start oiling system
-By-Pass oil filtration
-Holley 14-PSI pump w/ regulator and Perma-cool 25 GPM fuel filter & 3/8" fuel lines
-Patriot ceramic coated Shorty headers 1 5/8" x 2.5""collector
-X-pipe 2.5" exhaust w/ Hooker Aero-chamber mufflers, w/ variable vacuum producing afterburners
EXPECTED OUTPUT: 600 H.P. @ 6500 RPM WITH 550 FT.LBS. OF TORQUE @ 5000 RPM

For those of you who are old enough think "Highway Star" and "Space Trucking"
Andrew
 
WOW,I guess I,m old enough to say Ka-ching$$ Sounds like a killer motor and you,ll be spending cause your gonna have to deal with traction!!Are you going to be takin it to the strip?10 seconds=$10,000.Let us know how you make out with the build,Don,t forget pics.
 
Pettybludart
I will take it to be timed but it is deigned to road race (not street race)
here is the rest of the info I was going to put it on the suspension page for suggestions.
$7,500 for the motor is what the spread sheet says, we'll see.

TRANSMISSION & REAR END
-Kiesler 4 speed Overdrive automatic
-2450 RPM stall convertor with anti-balooning plates
-External tranny cooler
-driveshaft loop
-A 8 3/4"rear end containing a 3.23 gear and,
- A limited slip posi-trac spool
This will have the effect of starting out with a 4.00 rear end gear off the line, and having a 1.9 rear end gear at top end.
This yields a theoretical 244 MPH @ 6000 RPM (I know, you can't push a refregerator through the air that fast)( aerodynamics rule)
1700 RPM @ 70 MPH (26" tires)
CHASSIS MODS
-Sub-frame connectors & Torgue boxs
-Rear (sheet metal / 3M firestop sandwich) fire wall
-4 point Roll bar w/ back seat down tubes & removable horizontal bar (for 3" NHRA belts)
-Center seat belt tower (allows for 2" 4 point harness without horizontal roll bar)
-Reinforced floor pans at all rollbar and tower attachment points
FRONT SUSPENSION
-AlterKtion 'K' member with the following-
-340 motor mounts
-REMAN rack & pinion power steering
-1.125" sway bar
-Air Ride Shockwave system-Air Ride level-pro system for front & back
-450 spring rate setup
-2 u-joint/ single shaft steering hookup
-Wilwood 11" disk brakes
REAR SUSPENSION
Street-Lynx four link system
-.875" rear swaybar
-Coil over shocks
BRAKES
-Proportioning valve
-Front 11" Willwood discs
-11" C body drums in back
-Stainless steel brake lines


Again Im up for suggestions, Its been a two year design project, thousands of pages read and two binders with more than 500 pages of kept information.
Some of it already not relavent. I am shurly up for correction.

Andrew
 
The Silver State Challenge in Nevada? If so you might want to invest as much into handling or you will be upside down in a ditch real quick. Or worse.
I ran that race 3 times and NOT in an old Mopar. Please be safe. And be prepared to sign a mountain of waivers.:stop:
 
Hate to be the fly in the ointment.

I don't think you'll get anywhere near those expected power number with the compression, camshaft, intake, headers, and carb selected. Something in the 500 range is possible, 600 not a chance without a shot of n2o.

The cast crank is a decent choice at the 500hp level, at 600, no way IMHO.
 
I did not notice the entry for the crank. I will be going with an internally balanced kit from Mancini with a forged Callies crank, & diamond forged pistons.
As I said some of the entrys and info is aready out dated.
Thanks for the heads up
Andrew
 
crackedback said:
Hate to be the fly in the ointment.

I don't think you'll get anywhere near those expected power number with the compression, camshaft, intake, headers, and carb selected. Something in the 500 range is possible, 600 not a chance without a shot of n2o.

The cast crank is a decent choice at the 500hp level, at 600, no way IMHO.
Click to expand...

I agree with cracked back. You should consult more with Ryan at Shady Dell about your goals and get him to help you with your total combination. I would buy the heads from him with the right springs, retainers, and locks (10 degree) already installed. Again, ask Ryan at Shady Dell, he got my heads set up for me and helped me pick the critical components for my 414 SB stroker build up.

And closed chamber Edelbrock heads are typically 64-65cc even though Edelbrock states 63cc. I had Shady Dell mill mine down to 62cc to get the compression I wanted.
 
I have shown Ryan the build list, he made some suggestions some of which I have followed, and he will be porting and setting up the heads. The spring choice was based on comp cams engineer's recomendation. Hughs is the only one with the right specs on the springs.

There has been much talk about the accuracy of "Desk top Dyno". If it is to be believed with 2.02" intake valves and the numbers that ryan provided it tops out at 586 hp and 550 tq.
If I punch in 2.08" valves it is well over 600Hp.

It is also not stated on the build sheet but I will (after break in) be running Canola oil 10W50 specially formulated for automotive use in an experimental program at Purdue Univ. In all of the tests it greatly out performed full synthetic oils and as a result there was an on average 10% increase in horsepower in hunderds of fleet engines for various uses. As I said in a different post Experimental Physics is my thing.
As far as nitrous goes---Don't need it, don't want it.
I am quite supprised you have not asked about the afterburners:cheers::cheers::cheers:
Andrew
 
Have you read the book "Building big inch small block mopars" ?
Written by a fellow who works for Mopar Performance, Jim Szlagyi I think his name is. During numerous builds and Dyno test they comfirmed the mopar windage tray hurt performance by like 30 horse power if I remember right.
Due to the decrease in clearance from the 4" stroke crank. They also saw a marked improvement with the Moroso pan and improved pick up vs the Milodon.

All said though some serious parts.
 
beastie340 said:
...During numerous builds and Dyno test they comfirmed the mopar windage tray hurt performance by like 30 horse power if I remember right...
Click to expand...
yup, thats with an unmodified w/t. with larger drain backs they work ALOT more effectivly. better yet would be to make a
crank scraper with the Milodon pans. or if you want to use the stock pan, weld in some acceleration/deacceleration
baffles. dont even consider using a dry sump setup.. they'll cost yah alot more then 30 horse lol.
 
blue missile how is the breakdown of viscosity with the Canola oil 10W50. If all goes well and it is as good or better than synthetic hopefully it will be less expensive alternative. You will have to keep us up to date on it's testing and production.
 
Well, I've built several factory based suspension cars for high speed road stuff. (150mph+ cruising) I've built a 160+mph scamp, and a 170mph CUda.
On the engine... No way will it make that power. IMO, I think you should have Ryan machine that block, if not assemble and dyno the whole thing. His stage 3 heads will make over 600hp, but it will take a solid roller cam WAAAYYYY bigger than what you have spec'd, and a MUCH larger intake to do it. He also has a block millig program to fit the decent roller lifters in that block. You will need an oil cooler, and some oil system mods. IMO, the auto trans is a mistake. Heavy, and a HP sapper compared to a good 5 sp, and the 5sp keeps the engine in the rpms better. The suspension choice isnt bad.. BUT... Air Bags are for trucks. Use coil overs, and if it was me, I'd talk to Pete at XV Motorsports. They have an excellent shock package. You will want the best suspension you can afford. Because if something goes wrong, it is a total loss and hopefully not you too. At 150, if you go off course, the only good thing is you wont feel it...lol.
 
why not buy a cup motor designed for 9000 rpm from one of the places in N.C. that sells used race parts.Seems like 850 horse would get you there a lot quicker.
 
I guess i missed the point. It is to be the ultimate 340. I sure would like to have a dry sump cup motor though lol
 
i would go schumacher poly lock motor mounts. eliminates the gay torque strap. thats what i have on mine...fits great
 
moper said:
IMO, I think you should have Ryan machine that block, if not assemble and dyno the whole thing.
Click to expand...

If you can afford it that would be the way to go. And it might be cheaper in the long run because he knows how to build them right.
 
340sFastback said:
If you can afford it that would be the way to go. And it might be cheaper in the long run because he knows how to build them right.
Click to expand...
then what are we here for? might as well just get him to answer all the questions in the engine tech section. lol.
theres alot of us out there with alot less building much better engines.
 
360, it wasnt a cut on anyone here that I suggest it. I know a couple guys who ruined new MP blocks by hand grinding for the roller tie bar clearance.. the blocks are thin there and they hit water. Kind of expensive whoops. Ryan has a CNC center and he has a program to clearance them properly and safely, and it doesnt make a lot of sense to me to have him just do that. You're paying setup time, and then he just pushes start and off it goes. It can have one operation, or all but honing done. I'll put my work against anyone here or elsewhere, but there are times having others do it "just makes sense". Having that program to me is a huge selling point. most shops do not do enough MP LA block work to know that.
 
OK guys one at a time
340sfastback:
I talked to Ryan at length via Email about such an arangement but because I will be doing the coating work myself it is not practicle to ship the parts back and forth.This is one way to help keep the costs in check. About the cost, Iwas mistaken the spead sheet has $7500 for the block and $2500 for the heads.

Moper:The oil system mod on the build sheet is the crossover spec'ed by mopar perf. in the lifter valley. Oil cooler under consideration. Any other suggestions?

Soul Survivor:please see the article in mopar muscle (not my favorite pub) on their cop car that ran SSC. I too will be starting in the Grand Touring div.@125mph.

70Dart:First let me say that my opinion here does not count. I am using as my standard my father in law who is retired but for many decades was the chief Phd. Chemist in charge of EXXON's oil addative program.He took a look at the testing data that you can find @ www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html
His opinion is that these are the valid testing protocols and the test data shows the canola oil to be FAR Superior to even synthetic oils in all regards.

From the Purdue program:
"Longevity of motor oil can be calculated using the Rotating Bomb Oxidation Test (RBOT). In an RBOT analysis, oils are subjected to high heat and pressure conditions to determine time untill the oils polymerize and become solid."
"Pin-and-vee analysis (RBOT)conducted by Rhodes Consulting show significantly less friction and a reduced friction for a prolonged length of time compared to a convential 5W30 motor oil." "Comparisons of the oil with a synthetic 10W50 show the bio-based oils also outperform synthitic oils"
"In addition , the vegetable motor oils can withstand far higher temperatures before oil breakdown than either the conventional oils or synthetic oils. In conventional oil comparisons, petrolium oils failed at 400psi while the canola-based oils failed at 1050psi. In comparisons to syntheticoils, the synthetic oils began to fail at 400 psi failure of the bio-based oils did not occur until 825psi."

69 valliant kid:poly lock mounts under investigation, thanks.

Kbduster:The folks at Keisler said that it would be good to at least 550 ftlbs of tourque. once the engine is dyno'd, If the tranny needs to be upgraded it will be. The shifting will be handled by a paddle shifter they are developing and selectible programs. I'm of the opinion that it can shift faster than I can, without any chance of missing a shift.

Thanks Guys
Andrew
 
i didnt realize how much horse you wanted, im not sure if the mounts will cover it. but i do know if you get the replacement mounts, that they want you to use a torque strap, but if you get the polylock, they eliminate that factor...
 
I have a set of eddy rpm heads, stage three p&p from hughes and we coated them with tech line products. I would let them go if interested. We coated the entire motor inside and out, it is on Hughes web page (426 dyno results from Feb 08), has some similar stuff. I hope to fire it in the car soon, cant wait to hear it.
 
moper said:
360, it wasnt a cut on anyone here that I suggest it. I know a couple guys who ruined new MP blocks by hand grinding for the roller tie bar clearance.. the blocks are thin there and they hit water. Kind of expensive whoops. Ryan has a CNC center and he has a program to clearance them properly and safely, and it doesnt make a lot of sense to me to have him just do that. You're paying setup time, and then he just pushes start and off it goes. It can have one operation, or all but honing done. I'll put my work against anyone here or elsewhere, but there are times having others do it "just makes sense". Having that program to me is a huge selling point. most shops do not do enough MP LA block work to know that.
Click to expand...

I agree with what your sayin 100%. around my parts.. unless you have a s/bbc or s/bbf, your s.o.l..
I just send my blocks out to get machined to my specs, not thiers lol. once done I do the final
assembly on my engines. hand fitting each piston to a matching bore, bearings to the journals to get
the best clearences etc. etc.. i remember lots of nights where I was up to 3am hand polishing the crankshaft. to this date I never had an engine grenade on me. like you, I to
will put my work up against the best of them, no worries. man i would kill to have my own machining equipment.
I got alot of ideas in my grey matter lol.

blue missle...
The folks at Keisler said that it would be good to at least 550 ftlbs of tourque. once the engine is dyno'd, If the tranny needs to be upgraded it will be.
Click to expand...
Keisler are a bunch of crackers.. there trannys will handle no where near 550 ft-lbs of anything, and there
"no mods nessesary" install is a complete joke. I'd sooner go with a modded T-5. lots cheaper/more reliable overall and
WAY easier to install. just my .02 cents.
 
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