Well that sorta sucked...

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cdstl

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My son and I just finished installing Doug's headers into his 408, 4 speed 70 Duster.

The headers are very nice and we used the TTI offset Z bar.

We started off pulling the steering cross tie, 90 degree oil filter adapter, radiator and starter. Then came the steering column and box. Oh and the pitman had to come off too. After lifting the motor the DS went in. We wrestled the PS header for a while and then he had to go to work. I ended up pulling the PS torsion bar and in went the PS header. After all of the head scratching and tool search this was about 14 hours. To do it again would MAYBE take 8, soup to nuts.

This subject has been beat to death but I'll add my two cents.

Pull these items, lift the engine, support the trans with a floor jack and the headers should go right in...

Radiator
Steering cross tie
Steering column
Steering box
PS Torsion bar

A mini starter can be installed with the headers attached.

FWIW
 
Good lord....i had three sets of headers on my car before I ever had the column out for anything...and the steering box remained until the day the entire k got swapped out.

What size tubes are these? I ran a factory box for a year with 2.125 hustlers
 
They're Dougs. 1 5/8 tubes. I've read a lot of different threads about the install and everyone has done a bit of each of these things. Especially the column. The header was not going into that hole with the shaft or box in there. We had the motor lifted until it was bottoming on the tunnel.

I can't speak as to whether or not the DS would have gone in from below but I'm pretty sure the PS would have fit if we were using a lift.
 
Dang I didn't pull half that stuff to install the Doug's on my 340, and I have a Milodon road race pan and a 4 speed with mechanical linkage too. I raised the engine, slid back both torsion bars, dropped the starter, and had to take the bolts out of the steering box (flaming river manual), but the steering box was because of the road race pan and the flaming river box. A stock manual box probably would have cleared with the road race pan, and the driver's side header would have probably cleared the flaming river box if I didn't have to work the DS header around the kickout on the road race pan. Radiator stayed in place, steering column stayed in place, drag link stayed in place.

And if you install the engine with the K frame from below you can install the whole mess with the headers attached.
 
We have a Champion with about 1/2" clearance and I didn't want to chance hitting it with the fan when we lifted the motor. That's why the Rad came out.

It seems everyone goes about it a different way. This is the first that I've seen both T bars pulled. This worked for us so I guess the next guy may read this thread and either go my route or at least realize that he may end up doing what I did.

Kinda what I did going in. I knew that other guys had to pull the column and others pulled the PS T bar. I just wanted to add to the internet the next time someone searches this out.

Thanks
 
I wanted to do the 'difficult' side last, so after I had put in the PS header (by removing filteradapter, trans dipstick, idler arm along the way ofcourse), I started reading the manual further for any tips doing the DS header. Only then I read the PS should've gone in first...
Would've been nice if they had mentioned this upfront in TFManual.

One tip I could throw out here that I did, is to leave them in the plastic bags when mounting them. This prevents them greatly on scratches and grease marks.
 
cdstl said:
They're Dougs. 1 5/8 tubes. I've read a lot of different threads about the install and everyone has done a bit of each of these things. Especially the column. The header was not going into that hole with the shaft or box in there. We had the motor lifted until it was bottoming on the tunnel.

I can't speak as to whether or not the DS would have gone in from below but I'm pretty sure the PS would have fit if we were using a lift.
Click to expand...

I had a cheapy set of flowtech's on mine at one point...I literally had no issues you pointed out other than dropping the drag link for the driver side, which is obviously required. Sorry you had all those issues. I guess i'm in no hurry to start carrying Dougs...
 
cdstl said:
We have a Champion with about 1/2" clearance and I didn't want to chance hitting it with the fan when we lifted the motor. That's why the Rad came out.

It seems everyone goes about it a different way. This is the first that I've seen both T bars pulled. This worked for us so I guess the next guy may read this thread and either go my route or at least realize that he may end up doing what I did.

Kinda what I did going in. I knew that other guys had to pull the column and others pulled the PS T bar. I just wanted to add to the internet the next time someone searches this out.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yeah I've got a champion as well but I run electric fans. I had to disconnect the hoses to lift the engine but that was it. The torsion bars free up a ton of space, and I needed it because of the kick outs on the milodon road race oil pan. I did have to cycle the steering back and forth to move the links around, but I didn't drop them.

Johnny Pace said:
I had a cheapy set of flowtech's on mine at one point...I literally had no issues you pointed out other than dropping the drag link for the driver side, which is obviously required. Sorry you had all those issues. I guess i'm in no hurry to start carrying Dougs...
Click to expand...

Yeah the below the steering link headers go in easier, too bad they smash flat in no time because they hang down so far. Doug's are better than flowtechs on every measure. Yes they're harder to install because they don't trap the steering link, but they're far better quality. Equivalent to the TTI's, slightly different design. Sometimes that's good and they have better clearance, sometimes it's not and the TTI's clear better. Depends on the car and the accessories/mods. But for headers on these cars with a small block I'd never buy anything other than Doug's or TTI's. Nothing else is even close to the same quality.
 
72bluNblu said:
Yeah I've got a champion as well but I run electric fans. I had to disconnect the hoses to lift the engine but that was it. The torsion bars free up a ton of space, and I needed it because of the kick outs on the milodon road race oil pan. I did have to cycle the steering back and forth to move the links around, but I didn't drop them.

Yeah the below the steering link headers go in easier, too bad they smash flat in no time because they hang down so far. Doug's are better than flowtechs on every measure. Yes they're harder to install because they don't trap the steering link, but they're far better quality. Equivalent to the TTI's, slightly different design. Sometimes that's good and they have better clearance, sometimes it's not and the TTI's clear better. Depends on the car and the accessories/mods. But for headers on these cars with a small block I'd never buy anything other than Doug's or TTI's. Nothing else is even close to the same quality.
Click to expand...

By no measure am I insulting Dougs, I'm just surprised at the issues above is all. That brand is simply not one of the 250 i carry directly. Don't go knocking the flowtechs i ran back when i was 16 ;) they worked just fine for what they were. If i had to rip out my column and steering box back then, the car would have never tracked straight again, and the steering wheel would have been upside down ;). I've since become slightly more experienced...just slightly...lol
 
cdstl said:
They're Dougs. 1 5/8 tubes. I've read a lot of different threads about the install and everyone has done a bit of each of these things. Especially the column. The header was not going into that hole with the shaft or box in there. We had the motor lifted until it was bottoming on the tunnel.

I can't speak as to whether or not the DS would have gone in from below but I'm pretty sure the PS would have fit if we were using a lift.
Click to expand...
Wait, you put the headers in from the top? That may have been part of the problem.
 
Johnny- What year was your car. I think the older Dusters are more difficult. My Black Jacks went on somewhat easy just like yours.
 
TF360 said:
Johnny- What year was your car. I think the older Dusters are more difficult. My Black Jacks went on somewhat easy just like yours.
Click to expand...
Was a stock 74 swinger at the time. Ps and all. As stated above, my power steering pump, box, and column remained bolted to the car until the day I dropped the entire k for a tube setup. Only interference I had was a lock to lock turn would cause the pitman arm to touch a tube. I have big 2.125 hustlers now. Had them on with the stock k for a while. Had less issue with them than the above also, but they do have slip connections and a tube goes through the inner fender, so diff animal.
 
I'm surprised it took that much to get them on.

I am running hooker 5901's. Mine weren't easy to get in. But they went in a lot easier than yours. Removed the starter. Jacked the engine up as much as we could. Popped out the tie rods, dropped the center link. Removed 90 degree adapter. Passenger side went in no problem. Drivers side had to pull the steering coupler, lift the power steering pump out of the way a whole inch. Drivers side went in. I think we ended up spending 6 hours doing it? Although of course my buddy snapped an exhaust stud, then an extractor in the exhaust stud, so it had to go to a shop and get the torch as neither of us had one. If that hadn't happened. Would have been in easy. We ended up jacking the engine up and down several times too. If we did it again I bet we could cut it down to 4 hours. Neither of us had put headers on an A body before. Running 383 torsion bars and the passenger side JUST touches. So I just left it. It'll clearance itself. Doesn't touch anywhere else.

As for dragging. I've experienced none of that. And I got the front of my car low. Low enough that if I go over a corner with a big bump, the tires rub off the top of fender. And I have yet to drag my headers even once.
 
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if i'm going to pay out the rear for headers...it's going to a chassis shop and someone can fab them up. For the amount of "like a glove" alleged claims that i hear about the big $ fan favorites... i see way more first hand stories of issues such as the above. If you just have a cruiser, and are going to drive with some common sense, i'll take the "low" "cheap" headers vs the thousand dollar starter cookers. Just my opinion, and to each his own.
 
OMG... Putting A body headers in from the top?

What do the instructions say? Probably lift the car 2+ feet off the ground if possible. Sorry, but that's not to make it tougher to lift the headers over the fender/radiator support! :)

Driver side is always tough on A body cars. Pass side goes in smooth on pass side, sometimes it helps to also remove the engine mount bracket/mount.

Only time to go in from the top is when the engine is going to be lowered in AFTER the headers are in place.
 
Yea man , from the bottom. Passenger side first, just hang it loose. I've never in my life had to remove torsion bars for headers
 
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