What If Chrysler Goes Bankrupt???

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abodyjoe said:
no? is it not a german company now?? hell it was barley an american company even when it was an american company with the amount of vehicles built in mexico and canada...
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Industry analysts say one of the biggest problems DC has is the lack of integration between Chrysler and Mercedes Benz. As far as design, development and manufacturing are concerned they are still operating very independently. As far as assembly in Mexico and Canada go, Ford and GM do just as much of it as DC. Both also have had completely foreign vehicles badged as Chevys and Fords. The all-american car company is a myth that died long ago. I doubt that anyone would argue against the statement that the Chrysler/Dodge inventory is FAR MORE American now than it was before the takeover. Rear-wheel drive is back. HEMI V8's are back. Large, mean-looking cars are back and those cars are designed by Americans and the majority of the parts are American. When I was selling Dodges I had a 30+ year Ford truck owner (also a Ford employee) buy a Ram because he could not get over the fact that Ford's truck transmissions are built in FRANCE!
 
Did I just hear today that GM is trying to aquire Chrysler?
Does that mean we have to allow Camaros , and Firebirds on this site? I believe they were called A-bods also.

Somebody shoot me!!
 
Again I have to say that this web site provides some of the most thoughtful and enjoyable reading about old mopars that I have found on the internet.

I'm sorry if I touched a nerve here ... and my intention was not to get anyone mad at one another. I grew up in W.Va. which was a 100% union state. Things got out of hand there with the unions and a lot of jobs were lost. However, everyone knows that the u.s. auto and steel injustries also have been beaten down by the subsidies provided by foreign governments to their domestic industries. And naturally, the entire mess has never been handled very well in my opinion, by the political leadership in america. The "world market" is a reality that will never go away now and once China starts selling cars here in the u.s., all the current problems at Ford, GM and Diamlier/Chrysler may quickly seem like "the good old days." I hope that the u.s. car market is not lost. I don't want to drive a front wheel drive econo-box that looks like 80% of everything else on the road. I suspect that the time will come when I may only drive a "used" car because I won't be interested in buying anything that is "new." Right now, I have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee and a '01 4x4 ram pickup. I don't ever see myself buying a "foreign brand" (yes... I do understand the reality of foreign content in my jeep..). But all that deals with my daily driver. As to any a-body that I spend weekends smearing macguire's wax all over, I just hope I will be able to continue to find parts for it that I can afford ... AND find gas that the screaming 340 or louping big block won't try to throw up on once that whinny mopar starter startes to spin.

But in the end ... I suspect all good die hard Mopar nuts will find a way to enjoy their cars. It might become something like an old Mel Gibson "Mad Max" movie ... but as long as there is a "beep beep" horn going off in the distance .. all will be well with the universe.

Thanks again guys for a spirited and thoughtful discussion.

jim ... from pittsburgh ...

"67 to 69 cuda's will never die" ... :love4:
 
abodyjoe said:
i saw a good show on bethleham steel on the history channel a while back.. they basicaLLY said that the union had the company by the balls and took advantage of that at contract time . but the company never put any profits (which there were pleanty of at the time) into updates like you said along with the higher ups expensing some crazy trips and things like that... but the union ends up getting the bad wrap .. but there was blame everywhere and weather it was right or not they got everything they could while they still could.... if they settled for less would the company still be in buisness?? i doubt it. it would have just been more profits that didn't go back into the company....
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I know several people who worked at the Bethlehem Steel facility here in Baltimore who said the same things. The union deserves the bad rap but they are definitely not alone.
 
jimharvard said:
Again I have to say that this web site provides some of the most thoughtful and enjoyable reading about old mopars that I have found on the internet.

I'm sorry if I touched a nerve here ... and my intention was not to get anyone mad at one another. I grew up in W.Va. which was a 100% union state. Things got out of hand there with the unions and a lot of jobs were lost. However, everyone knows that the u.s. auto and steel injustries also have been beaten down by the subsidies provided by foreign governments to their domestic industries. And naturally, the entire mess has never been handled very well in my opinion, by the political leadership in america. The "world market" is a reality that will never go away now and once China starts selling cars here in the u.s., all the current problems at Ford, GM and Diamlier/Chrysler may quickly seem like "the good old days." I hope that the u.s. car market is not lost. I don't want to drive a front wheel drive econo-box that looks like 80% of everything else on the road. I suspect that the time will come when I may only drive a "used" car because I won't be interested in buying anything that is "new." Right now, I have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee and a '01 4x4 ram pickup. I don't ever see myself buying a "foreign brand" (yes... I do understand the reality of foreign content in my jeep..). But all that deals with my daily driver. As to any a-body that I spend weekends smearing macguire's wax all over, I just hope I will be able to continue to find parts for it that I can afford ... AND find gas that the screaming 340 or louping big block won't try to throw up on once that whinny mopar starter startes to spin.

But in the end ... I suspect all good die hard Mopar nuts will find a way to enjoy their cars. It might become something like an old Mel Gibson "Mad Max" movie ... but as long as there is a "beep beep" horn going off in the distance .. all will be well with the universe.

Thanks again guys for a spirited and thoughtful discussion.

jim ... from pittsburgh ...

"67 to 69 cuda's will never die" ... :love4:
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I have already decided to go old MOPAR for the next car. Now that we have a daughter my wife and I were thinking of getting a Durango to have the extra room and more accident survivability. That still sounds weird, all I have ever owned is muscle MOPARS and Shelby Dodges. All we have now is her Neon SXT, my '87 GLHS, and my '69 Barracuda. After looking around we have pretty much decided to spend about a third as much to get a pristine early 70's New Yorker/Newport/Imperial/300 or whatever. They get roughly the same mileage, have more room than some houses, and are tanks. Some of them have been banned from demolition derbies because they have been deemed to be "indestructable". I have seen some awesome, low mileage, absolutely mint cars go for $2,000 to $5,500. It would be easy and inexpensive to maintain one and it would do everything we were looking for in an SUV since we do not do much winter driving as a family (although I like to get out there and have fun). The only problem will be getting her used to driving it and parking it. She is a lot younger than me and the largest thing she has ever driven is a Plymough Breeze. She does love the idea of having the child seat between us up front so she can play with the baby tough. A good selling point!
 
Union contracts are indeed part of the problem, but it's mainly because people are living so long now. When the big 3 began agreeing to lifetime health and retirement benefits in the union contracts, most guys only lived about 5 years after they retired. Now it's like 20.
The other thing is so called free trade. We've never had "fair" trade with Japan. Since WW2, it's always been tilted in Japan's favor.
Japan has value added taxes. If GM wants to export cars to Japan, there is a VA tax on every vehicle. On cars Japanese carmakers export to the US, the Japanese gov't waives the VA tax. We tax the net income of the corporations not a VA tax. We tax NI on GM, Ford, Chrysler (when they make a profit), and on American Honda corp, American Tolyota corp, etc.
But Toyota Japan rigs it so Am Toyota never makes a profit - all profits go to Japan Toyota.
Why we allow this to continue even as GM, Ford and Chrysler are dieing - well, you'd have to ask the politicians.
-Shupe
 
MtNemoMopar said:
Does that mean we have to allow Camaros , and Firebirds on this site? I believe they were called A-bods also.
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The Camarobird were F-Bodies. The GM A-Body was the Chevelle, LeMans (GTO), Skylark (GSX) and Cutlass (442). I sure don't want those big tanks hanging around here! :p
 
why cant the american companies design a car that gets great fuel mileage like the japs?

if they were competetive on fuel mileage they might sell more cars.

The unions too, when the american companies switched to using more robots to assemble their cars, they still had to pay thousands of workers to show up everyday to watch movies and do crosswords. Something called a labor pool.

reduce the people you pay $40 an hour to sit on their asses and the cars might just be a bit cheaper.
 
Some of you guys make me laugh. You want to know what the problem is? Go look out your front window in your driveway and see the Toyotas, Hyundas, Hondas, Nissans, and any other foreign crap you can save a buck on. You know who you are. Blame the unions? I don't think so. Why shouldn't an American worker earn enough money to support their families and live the American dream. I don't see those guys buying mansions with their pay. How much do the CEOs and countless other management decision makers earn? You don't earn enough to buy an American car? Maybe you should get a union. If you talk the talk, walk the walk. Just my opinion. Mike
 
ValiantMike said:
Some of you guys make me laugh. You want to know what the problem is? Go look out your front window in your driveway and see the Toyotas, Hyundas, Hondas, Nissans, and any other foreign crap you can save a buck on. You know who you are. Blame the unions? I don't think so. Why shouldn't an American worker earn enough money to support their families and live the American dream. I don't see those guys buying mansions with their pay. How much do the CEOs and countless other management decision makers earn? You don't earn enough to buy an American car? Maybe you should get a union. If you talk the talk, walk the walk. Just my opinion. Mike
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I smell a union member.

The problem I have with unions is the same problem my grandad had with unions. the guys in charge embezzled the pension fund so he got to retire with a $25 a month check.

Unions are little help. poor leadership at the top is no help.
 
DragginMAster said:
I smell a union member.

The problem I have with unions is the same problem my grandad had with unions. the guys in charge embezzled the pension fund so he got to retire with a $25 a month check.

Unions are little help. poor leadership at the top is no help.
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Did a union rep steel your pension fund too? If so, I feel bad for you. Being from Arkansa you can see what happens to workers who don't have unions.Your wal mart is a classic example. Corparete greed at its worst.
 
I think one of the main problems with D-C & other mfgs, they do not have any long term product idenity. How many years have toyota had the camry, corolla, avalon, 4-runner, tacoma, tundra, & rav4? There is a good chance that most everyone will know their model line up. Same with honda & nissan. Ford has the F150, mustang, & GM the 1500 trucks, but most big 3 use their name plates like a deck of cards. Just when a consumer starts to be loyal to a model, they drop it, then it reappers on a new model that had nothing based off the previos one. The big 3 build more models than they need, Jeep used to be a profitable co. with 3 models, now with more models than i can remeber, the brand is now watered down. I read that the Comander is going to be dropped. I think the big 3 loses it focus with trying to fill every blank instead of refining its models. Imports build loyalty thru name plates not mfg names. I don't believe that Imports are any more dependable than the big 3, the problem here is you rarely hear about the Import recalls, toyota just made a large settlement on there engines sludging up, & also a major balljoint failure on tundras & large sport utilitys. The media is in love with these Imports! I have worked as a toyota service writer & have seem my share of lemon buy back camrys. One thing that most Import owners do better than big 3 owners are maint. As far as the nameplate thing goes, why did the drop the Dart & Valiant names? These names always meant you were getting a well engineered, reliable, safe, economical car, kinda sounds like an Import car don't it.
 
abodyjoe said:
i don't agree 100% with that... and i'm not defending the unions but managment and stock holder have allot to do with it also???


I am a stock holder in GM, Ford and Chrysler. You tell me why you think I am also to blame for their woes, I would love to hear this. People like me have given these companies money to help operate on. I want a return on my money I am basically lending them. There is nothing worng with a return of my investment. Without stockholders there would be alot less money for them to operate on, including paying payroll.


Chuck
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mikedevore said:
As far as the nameplate thing goes, why did the drop the Dart & Valiant names? These names always meant you were getting a well engineered, reliable, safe, economical car, kinda sounds like an Import car don't it.
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These names mean these things only because Chrysler dropped them. Had they continued the Dart and Valiant names on the Aspen and Volaré models, they'd be as worthless as the later F-body cars themselves.

Still, a good name is hard to come by and can build a ton of loyalty as you say. Acura really dropped the ball IMHO when they canned their successful Integra and Legend nameplates in favour of a non-sensical collection of alphanumerics like everyone else is doing. I hate that. Is there any pride in telling people that you've just bought a new 6000SUX or would you rather tell them you drive a Cuda or a Cougar or a Charger (well, not the new Charger... bleh) or something else equally aggressive sounding? The flipside, of course, is when companies continue using successful names and start slapping them on whatever they've got lying around. Case in point: the new Superbee. Come on D-C... the Superbee was a stripped out 2 door street machine, not a full-lux 4-door sedan. Get it together and start planning your future instead of wallowing in your past!
 
ValiantMike said:
Some of you guys make me laugh. You want to know what the problem is? Go look out your front window in your driveway and see the Toyotas, Hyundas, Hondas, Nissans, and any other foreign crap you can save a buck on. You know who you are. Blame the unions? I don't think so. Why shouldn't an American worker earn enough money to support their families and live the American dream. I don't see those guys buying mansions with their pay. How much do the CEOs and countless other management decision makers earn? You don't earn enough to buy an American car? Maybe you should get a union. If you talk the talk, walk the walk. Just my opinion. Mike
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I agree with this. Most people that I talk to think that domestic (based, not built) cars and trucks are garbage. Everyone loves to tout how great the Honda, Acura, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, blah blah blah are. BS, people that say that have never had to turn a wrench on one of those cars. They are garbage. I one have one import parked at my house and it's my wifes Golf. That she bought with her own money. You can't blame her either since she isn't American. Ironically, she buys everything else made in America whenever possible. As for me, I only own Mopars. 3 a-bodies, two 80's Dodge trucks, my 72 Charger, and my 03 Neon (I only own it because of the gas prices and my 60 mile a day commute).
 
Lars said:
I agree with this. Most people that I talk to think that domestic (based, not built) cars and trucks are garbage. Everyone loves to tout how great the Honda, Acura, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, blah blah blah are. BS, people that say that have never had to turn a wrench on one of those cars. They are garbage. I one have one import parked at my house and it's my wifes Golf. That she bought with her own money. You can't blame her either since she isn't American. Ironically, she buys everything else made in America whenever possible. As for me, I only own Mopars. 3 a-bodies, two 80's Dodge trucks, my 72 Charger, and my 03 Neon (I only own it because of the gas prices and my 60 mile a day commute).
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Part of the problem is that so-called "expert sources" like Consumer Reports are full of crap and are actually little more than ad agancies for Japanese cars. The best example that comes to mind is their treatment of the early 90's Dakota verses the Toyota Tacoma. The Dakota used to get the "Best Ownership Experience" award nearly every year, partly because of reliability, but Consumer Reports gave it their lowest rating. The Takoma, with it's wonderful new 190HP VZ engine, had a design flaw in the cylinder heads that had owners buying head gaskets by the gross. Consumer Reports gave it their highest rating. A guy I worked with made Toyota take his P.O.S. Tacoma back under the Lemon Law because it spent almost 4 months of it's first 7 months of life in the shop getting head gaskets and new heads. The other part of the problem is that so many Americans are so pathetically lazy that they do little or no research and just act on information that was out-of-date 20 years ago. I can not remember which year it was, it was around 8 or 9 years ago, I saw a headline in one of the car magazines about Toyota having more recalls that year than Chrysler and Ford put together. Since 1990 Chrysler has had 113 recalls, Honda has had 155, and Toyota has had 226! Ah, that legendary Japanese craftmanship!
 
I don't know why there are so many people in our own country looking to sabotage our auto industry. It's really sad.
 
abodyjoe said:
there hasn't been a "big 3" in a while.. GM and ford is it. chrysler is german no matter how you want to spin it.. buying a new chrysler is the same as buying a toyota,honda,hyundia,kia or any other foreign car..
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I don't know how many of you watched the Daytona 500 this past weekend, but during the pre-race show they were talking about how Toyota should not be in NASCAR because the "purist" race fans believe that NASCAR should be for American cars only. Then DW went on to point out that the Chevy's and Dodge's were built in Canada, and the Ford's were built in Mexico... the only cars in the race that were built in America were... you guessed it, the Toyota's!

Now that in itself is something to ponder!
 
DragginMAster said:
why cant the american companies design a car that gets great fuel mileage like the japs?

if they were competetive on fuel mileage they might sell more cars.

As compared to what? Have you checked the fuel milage on domestic cars? When I purchased my dd 4 years ago,I checked out all the big 3. Most all were 25+ mpg rated. Mine now has 90,000,trouble free,30 mpg,miles on it.(And no,it's not a sub compact) Nothing but routine maint. on it,including a brake job. Performance pads,and rotors (lifetime warranty) all the way around. $240 (including labor). Price them for a Toyota,(or other Jap rig)and see what you come up with. I think the biggest problem the domestic auto makers have is, the misconception that they don't make a good product. If we want them to survive,we need to start promoting them,instead of running them down. Maybe I'm wrong,but I think the the U.S. auto makers (yes,Chrysler,Ford,and GM) are producing some of the best automobiles available. OK,I'll get off my soapbox now. :cussing:
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TheDemonator said:
I don't know how many of you watched the Daytona 500 this past weekend, but during the pre-race show they were talking about how Toyota should not be in NASCAR because the "purist" race fans believe that NASCAR should be for American cars only. Then DW went on to point out that the Chevy's and Dodge's were built in Canada, and the Ford's were built in Mexico... the only cars in the race that were built in America were... you guessed it, the Toyota's!

Now that in itself is something to ponder!
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dw forgot to mention that the tojos are his sponsors also. If you want to talk fuel milage, ever drive a late 90's 4runner. When I was working @ toyota, the biggist complaint was the lack of fuel milage (14-16 mpg) You could have bought a full size sport utility with the same results that would also tow alot more. People just thought, its a toyota it should make its own fuel LOL.
 
TheDemonator said:
I don't know how many of you watched the Daytona 500 this past weekend, but during the pre-race show they were talking about how Toyota should not be in NASCAR because the "purist" race fans believe that NASCAR should be for American cars only. Then DW went on to point out that the Chevy's and Dodge's were built in Canada, and the Ford's were built in Mexico... the only cars in the race that were built in America were... you guessed it, the Toyota's!

Now that in itself is something to ponder!
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No it isn't. Assembling American parts in Canada or Mexico because they can't afford to do it here does not make them foreign cars and assembling Japanese cars here does not make them American cars. DW is supporting his sponsor and I'll bet he doesn't believe a word of it.
 
DragginMAster said:
why cant the american companies design a car that gets great fuel mileage like the japs?

if they were competetive on fuel mileage they might sell more cars.
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They do. In fact, it is nothing new. A mid-60's Dart or Barracuda with a slant 6 and manual trans was capable of almost 40MPG.
 
what about in the here and now though. last time I checked mid 60's darts and cudas were no longer being manufactured with any engine combinations.
 
Here and now? I have a new 2007 Dodge Caliber that gets over thirty miles a gallon, doesn't need a tune-up for 100,000 miles, has good power and all the bells and whistles, and cost thousands under 20 large. Plus it looks sharp and tons of compliments.
 
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