Wheel-hop

[swingin]

So it’s been a hot minute since I’ve posted here, if I ever have…..
But here’s the question.
Does anybody here have any experience with Caltracs or any other type of anti axle wind-up equipment?

 

[Heywodja]

@GTX JOHN he runs these on his race and street cars. I am switching to the split mono springs and caltracs.

Only drawback is they are a little noisy, but otherwise you may have to switch to a 3 or 4 link to get the same traction..

 

[dusterbing the peace]

Caltrac Tuning Info LOOK HERE

I ran them on my duster with the split monos, worked really well!

 

[Professor Fate]

It all depends on what you're running for rear springs...
Stock/HD or XHD/SuperStock springs, start with removing the spring clamps on the rear half of the springs and adding more clamps to the front section. People have had varying degrees of success using an adjustable pinion snubber with these, especially if it's a dual purpose street/strip car.
Slapper bars are a point of contention on Mopars, but can work well if adjusted properly.
Assassin bars have become quite popular, and work with both multi and mono leaf springs.
"Assassin" Traction Bars - Smith Racecraft
Caltracs are best used with their mono/split mono springs.
Then there's three and four link rears... And leaf-links...
What do you have and where do you want to end up? HP/gears/trans./intended use/projected E.T. goals?

 

[crackedback]

Good shocks are a pretty important aspect of any of the Bar type traction control methods.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Are you talking about in a racing context? cuz
In 55 years, I've never experienced wheel-hop in a street A-body.

 

[GTX JOHN]

@GTX JOHN he runs these on his race and street cars. I am switching to the split mono springs and caltracs.

Only drawback is they are a little noisy, but otherwise you may have to switch to a 3 or 4 link to get the same traction..

The Calvert System is very Durable.

I have had to do a violent maneuver to avoid an accident at speed in
my 340 Arrow and pulled apart a heim joint and went for quite a ride.
Yes, although even with protective washers on it for safety.

 

[jbc426]

@GTX JOHN he runs these on his race and street cars. I am switching to the split mono springs and caltracs.

Only drawback is they are a little noisy, but otherwise you may have to switch to a 3 or 4 link to get the same traction..

I tried the Caltracs with split mono-leafs on my '70 E-Body, but took them off within a year due to the harsh ride the car had on the open road. They were not very compliant over any type of road surface irregularity. On a smooth surface, they are hard to beat.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

I'd start with some alumunum body shocks. Double adjustable even if you have buy then two at a time (start with the rear).

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Caltrac noise can be eliminated with a short rubber tarp strap. Wrap the spring and bar at the rear so it is not noticable behind the wheel. Rattle is gone.

 

[Demonx2]

I've posted in another thread but the only time I get a noise from the avatar's split mono CalTracs is on a part throttle 2-3 shift. Certainly not a reason not to run them!!

 

[Heywodja]

I tried the Caltracs with split mono-leafs on my '70 E-Body, but took them off within a year due to the harsh ride the car had on the open road. They were not very compliant over any type of road surface irregularity. On a smooth surface, they are hard to beat.

If you still have those let me know.

 

[ProjectBazza]

Stock/HD or XHD/SuperStock springs, start with removing the spring clamps on the rear half of the springs and adding more clamps to the front section.

This works on old (late 60's/early 70's) Ford trucks as well, for the most part.

 

[318willrun]

The cheapest control would be traction bars. About 60 bucks new, and about 10 bucks at swap meets. But be prepared for lectures on how they don't work on mopars

 

[niceolddart]

Good leaf springs & leaf spring clamps on the forward part of the springs. Clamps are cheap & easy to make yourself, if, of course, you're on a budget.
Can't go wrong with Cal-Tracs though if you can afford them.

 

[jbc426]

If you still have those let me know.

I think I sold them at a swap meet, but I will double check for them in the next few days and report back.

I searched for nearly 4 decades for the best traction enhancing rear-suspension solution. I finally landed upon the best ride quality and traction control set-up for my five speed '70 'Cuda and automatic '68 Barracuda rear suspension.

Because Mopars have a semi-eliptical rear spring, I found that properly adjusted (shortened snubber that's just touching the front spring eye/requires cutting and re-welding the rear attaching bracket + spacing the front mounting bracket) slapper bars with either a heavy duty ESPO +1 spring or two passenger-side 3200lbs Super Stock spring gave me the best balance between a compliant ride quality and traction enhancement. Both cars weigh +3700lbs.

On the stick car, I had to use re-valved AFCO's with their "Big Dog" double-adjustable valving to control the hit. (car's rear tire would load the rear tire and then jump off the ground breaking traction without significant rear extension dampening).

The automatic car is much more forgiving on launch, and I run single adjustable QA 1's. Great shocks for both handling, ride quality and launching.

I also paint the slapper bars satin black, so they are hard to see and enhance it's sleeper status. Most real car guys know what's up when the back of the car lifts up as it plants the tires on a hard launch.

 

[Locomotion]

Good shocks are a pretty important aspect of any of the Bar type traction control methods.

The harder a car launches, the more control the suspension needs. On my Dart Sport race car, I had wheel-hop under certain conditions even with SS springs and a variety of shocks including Mopar Performance 4-speed race shocks and Competition Engineering adjustables. Never had a problem again after installing stiffer, adjustable shocks which, in this case, were single adjustable Rancho truck shocks. The springs "wrap" and "unwrap" causes wheel hop. Shocks, if stiff enough, dampen/control this action. Additionally, I always liked to keep one clamp on the rear of the spring and allow the adjustable shock to control the spring action, including separation. You can have too much separation too quickly. I also ran a snubber with 1/2" -3/4" clearance more out of habit. It certainly didn't hurt.

The Ranchos I have on the rear of my Dart Sport & Aspen Wagon race only with SS springs are RS999116 single adjustable. Calvert also had their brand relabeled for them but I don't know if there was any difference.

The newest Ranchos are RS999116 but I don't know what they upgraded. The last time they added a "9", they went from RS9116 3-way to RS99116 9-way. They have different lengths in the part number grouping in the list below. Research & measure for your application.

Rancho #'s & specs

L1 are the Mopar bushing ends - 5/8" hole & 1 5/16" wide.

 

[weedburner]

On the stick car, I had to use re-valved AFCO's with their "Big Dog" double-adjustable valving to control the hit. (car's rear tire would load the rear tire and then jump off the ground breaking traction without significant rear extension dampening).

The harder a car launches, the more control the suspension needs. On my Dart Sport race car, I had wheel-hop under certain conditions even with SS springs and a variety of shocks including Mopar Performance 4-speed race shocks and Competition Engineering adjustables. Never had a problem again after installing stiffer, adjustable shocks which, in this case, were single adjustable Rancho truck shocks. The springs "wrap" and "unwrap" causes wheel hop. Shocks, if stiff enough, dampen/control this action. Additionally, I always liked to keep one clamp on the rear of the spring and allow the adjustable shock to control the spring action, including separation. You can have too much separation too quickly.

Pretty common to see casual stick shift drag racers fix a launch problem with stiffer $$$ shocks, not realizing the root cause of the issue might be a clutch that's hitting the tires/suspension too hard. Basically if you fix the clutch hit first, you might not need stiffer shocks.

The significant difference between the two approaches is that stiffer shocks won't increase power production, but a looser clutch hit will.

Grant

 

[DARTLARRY]

I had really bad wheel hop at one time, I have a sure grip and only one tire would spin, and I would be sideways. I installed an old set of Lakewood traction bars, no more wheel hop, and car launches straight now.

 

[jbc426]

Pretty common to see casual stick shift drag racers fix a launch problem with stiffer $$$ shocks, not realizing the root cause of the issue might be a clutch that's hitting the tires/suspension too hard. Basically if you fix the clutch hit first, you might not need stiffer shocks.

The significant difference between the two approaches is that stiffer shocks won't increase power production, but a looser clutch hit will.

Grant

Agreed, that launching from a dead stop with a clutch that hits too hard or is simply dumped at launch is one thing. Clutch Tamers are great for helping with that, as is running a well-tuned slipper clutch to soften the hit. It's easier on drive train components too.

However, when stabbing the throttle while doing rolling starts on street in first gear with the clutch fully released resulted in the same problem. My car would hook for a spit-second, and then the tire would spring back off the pavement and break traction one time.

As soon as I dialed in more rebound (had to send the rear shocks back in for re-valving at AFCO for stiffer extension dampening) and slowed the extension of the rear-end, the car pretty much dead hooks and stopped leaping off the ground. I believe they know what they are doing over there.

At this point, it's all about tire and surface temperature and throttle control. My suspension is now the best I've ever had it in 4 decades. Much of the credit also goes to modern tire construction, materials and high-quality video cameras for seeing what's actually going on.

Smoke 'em if ya' got 'em!

Here's an old picture with Caltracs and some homely Rallye Rims that Mike Musto shot while recording Triple Black Attack over a decade ago. He's now over at Hemming's doing all their media.

 

[Locomotion]

Pretty common to see casual stick shift drag racers fix a launch problem with stiffer $$$ shocks, not realizing the root cause of the issue might be a clutch that's hitting the tires/suspension too hard. Basically if you fix the clutch hit first, you might not need stiffer shocks.

The significant difference between the two approaches is that stiffer shocks won't increase power production, but a looser clutch hit will.

Grant

Stiffer shocks may not be a cure-all for everyone but will probably help a lot of people here. But each car is different. Stiffer shocks like Rancho or CalTracs are not usually considered high dollar either. There are different clutch materials and configurations that stick racers can choose from but they can also have adjustability. An auto trans racer can't swap a converter as easily as adjusting a clutch. But it still has to work together with the rest of the car.

I think a more accurate description would be that a clutch controls the application of power to the drivetrain while shocks control the application of that power to the suspension. Sticks just have that extra tuning aid further upstream. But it all still has to be tuned to work together because each combo is different.

I understand what you are saying - FAST cars are a good example but that's a whole different ball game. There is a LOT more going on with the whole combo than meets the eye. That's why their 60' and ET tend be soft for the MPH they can run when compared to combos unrestricted by specific rules. Lots of HP but they are usually not spinning.

DARTLARRY found a much cheaper fix, but that doesn't mean that it can't get better. Each car is different. Track prep can also vary. I still spun on rare occasions but I didn't wheel-hop. Then there was this fast NHRA Stock racer who was talked into switching from his proven but "old school" "Launcher" SS springs to the trick Cal-trac system. Weight was added to make up for the lighter set-up to keep everything equal. Final results were that it didn't hurt, but didn't help either.

Everybody just has to figure it out for their combo.

 

[weedburner]

Stiffer shocks may not be a cure-all for everyone but will probably help a lot of people here. But each car is different. Stiffer shocks like Rancho or CalTracs are not usually considered high dollar either. There are different clutch materials and configurations that stick racers can choose from but they can also have adjustability. An auto trans racer can't swap a converter as easily as adjusting a clutch. But it still has to work together with the rest of the car.

I think a more accurate description would be that a clutch controls the application of power to the drivetrain while shocks control the application of that power to the suspension. Sticks just have that extra tuning aid further upstream. But it all still has to be tuned to work together because each combo is different.

Most stick cars have too much clutch for an efficient launch. In this case the clutch controls how fast inertia is drawn out of the engine, which in-turn determines how much peak torque gets applied to the transmission's input shaft during WOT launch. Keep in mind that peak torque number typically only lasts for a few tenths of a second. If the suspension tops out during that short period of peak torque, the tires are going to unload. Slowing down suspension reaction with stiffer shocks can get you past the period of peak torque which helps maintain traction, but now the shocks absorb the excess energy and the engine bogs.

Instead of slowing suspension reaction down with stiffer shocks, one could reduce the peak torque number by softening the clutch hit. This has the effect of not only slowing chassis reaction down, but it also increases the amount of time that peak torque number gets applied to the input shaft. Less hit, but the hit lasts longer. Less engine bog as well, which in-turn raises the engine's average power output. Problem is many see stiffer shocks as the track proven fix, don't even know softening the clutch hit is an option.

Grant

 

[GTX JOHN]

I have run the Rancho Truck adjustable shocks on our
bracket cars pretty much forever.

Great bang for the buck!

So are the Calverts = but put on before Calvert marketed his.