Where was all this black oil coming from?

[jbc426]

I always suspected it was oozing past the lower counter shaft where it comes through the case, but I sealed it up pretty good with Permatex when I installed the transmission. It doesn't look like it's coming out of the main shaft seal, because that part was relatively dry. It sure looks like it's coming out of the throw out bearing or seeping past the main input collar. front bearing retainer.

The weird thing is the transmission is filled with a nearly clear Redline Manual trans lube. It was the smoothest shifting, quietest running gear lube I found, and I tried a lot of them.

This black oily goo is all over the inside of my scatter shield, oozes out the throw-out fork boot and even though there are traces of it on the clutch itself, it never slipped and doesn't seem to be saturated like one would expect.

Any Ideas?

 

[RustyRatRod]

I was gonna say rear main leakin and getting thrown back but the clutch assembly looks dry to me, unless I am missin something. Maybe the trans has 10w30 in it?

 

[GEO]

I would say it's grease from the throw out bearing .

I'd replace it myself

 

[RedFish]

Any fluid there will appear black because its filled with clutch disc material. Same as brake lining dust on wheels. Looks like its oil leaking from the trans to me.

 

[jbc426]

I was gonna say rear main leakin and getting thrown back but the clutch assembly looks dry to me, unless I am missin something. Maybe the trans has 10w30 in it?

I know its hard to believe, but the motor doesn't leak a drop. It always comes from the scattershield area. I guess it must be the cast iron bearing retainer/throwout bearing sleeve. Thanks guys.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I noticed that it appears the front bearing retainer has been off and resealed. Not only would I reseal it again while the transmission is out, BUT, you should make SURE the vent slot on the rear of the bearing retainer is not facing down. THAT will cause a leak from the front of the transmission.

 

[jbc426]

I noticed that it appears the front bearing retainer has been off and resealed. Not only would I reseal it again while the transmission is out, BUT, you should make SURE the vent slot on the rear of the bearing retainer is not facing down. THAT will cause a leak from the front of the transmission.

Yikes! I thought it was supposed to face down to keep the gear oil from going into the clutch frictions!

Mine is definitely pointing down. Just goes to show that, "Often times a man's life in these parts depends upon a mere scrap of information".

Thanks for the education.

I'm taking the transmission out to replace it with the Passon, but I will definitely get this issue squared away.

It's my number matching transmission, and I'm glad it held up to the beast of a motor I have in front of it. This was the only issue I had with it, and I've tested it up to where the speedometer was down on the "H" in the MPH logo on the bottom of the speedo. (on a closed course with a professional driver :finga

It will soon be mated to its numbers matching block in my basement, waiting for the day I'm going to turn the car into a museum grade, trailer queen that is I can't drive anymore, because it will bump it from being a number 1 car. I figure that will happen in about 30 more years, when I can no longer safely drive a 700+ hp 5 speed car in my mid 80's.

 

[mopar head]

Yikes! I thought it was supposed to face down to keep the gear oil from going into the clutch frictions!

Mine is definitely pointing down. Just goes to show that, "Often times a man's life in these parts depends upon a mere scrap of information".

Thanks for the education.

I'm taking the transmission out to replace it with the Passon, but I will definitely get this issue squared away.

It's my number matching transmission, and I'm glad it held up to the beast of a motor I have in front of it. This was the only issue I had with it, and I've tested it up to where the speedometer was down on the "H" in the MPH logo on the bottom of the speedo. (on a closed course with a professional driver :finga

It will soon be mated to its numbers matching block in my basement, waiting for the day I'm going to turn the car into a museum grade, trailer queen that is I can't drive anymore, because it will bump it from being a number 1 car. I figure that will happen in about 30 more years, when I can no longer safely drive a 700+ hp 5 speed car in my mid 80's.

Don`t feel bad, I pointed mine down too, I figured it was a drain in case the seal blew, the oil would go down into the inspection cover, instead of flowing up the retainer onto the clutch disc?

 

[jbc426]

I noticed that it appears the front bearing retainer has been off and resealed. Not only would I reseal it again while the transmission is out, BUT, you should make SURE the vent slot on the rear of the bearing retainer is not facing down. THAT will cause a leak from the front of the transmission.

After I took the front bearing retainer off, I discovered that the little hole does indeed face down. I came to this conclusion because there is a cast in channel in the front bearing retainer that lines up with a hole drilled in the case of the transmission to allow gear oil to flow back into the transmission. Having the small hole after the seal and facing downward was the factories way of keeping gear oil off the clutch friction surfaces.

Check these pictures. I just had a bad seal on the front bearing retainer.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Good luck.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yup, you're right about that. My apologies. I remember reading somewhere NOT to point it down, but obviously whoever wrote that was mistaken. Here is some good readin on it.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...ing_the_a_833_four_speed_tranny/photo_37.html

 

[jbc426]

Update: While searching and looking around carefully under the car with a strong flashlight and some reading glasses, I also have the the transmission, clutch and scattershield out. I began tracking the oil source from down and backwards. Of course I was looking up and forwards. I though one of my oil pressure sensing devices was leaking, but there was oil coming down from the China rail at the end of my valley pan. Curious, I put a socket on the three bolts and found all three of them over a turn to a turn and a half loose. I could really see it pulling down the valley pan as they tightened. I run Indy EZ heads that capture the aluminum valley pan that's about 1/3 of an inch thick. I could have sworn I tightened those three bolts before, but I guess I missed them, or the vibrated loose over time. The oil was seeping into the scattershield through the openings caused from having to shim it on the block to get the trans mounting pad parallel to the crank centerline. I don't know if the back of the block is parallel either. I'm going to run a bead of Permatex Ultra Seal around the top 3/4 of the scattershield and the block saver just to keep any oil out that may try to get in there again from anywhere.

At any rate, I hope my black goo is a thing of the past. McLeod should be sending my clutch back this week and I will bolt it, the scattershield and the Passon in the car. Then its 720 miles of break-in time before I can test it in real world situations. I have to break in the new rearend gears for 500 miles anyway, so its a lot of around town and slow freeway on ramp cruising. This is going to be a painful 730 miles, because the motor is running so good right now.

 

[nm9stheham]

Good info....have seen this drain arrangement on other trannies but did not know on this one.

Soooo....just curious....what is the magic in 720 miles?

 

[jbc426]

Good info....have seen this drain arrangement on other trannies but did not know on this one.

Soooo....just curious....what is the magic in 720 miles?

Per Jamie's recommended break-in for his Passon 5-speed, break it gently for one mile for every hp or is it ft lbs of torque the engine puts out. Drive around town, on and off the freeway etc ,so you are cycling through all the gears. This gives them a chance to mate together and helps the transmission live a long healthy life. My HP & TQ are almost the same in either case at 5500 rpm, so I forgot which factor, HP or TQ he recommends using.

 

[nm9stheham]

OK, interesting. Well, now you gets hours and hours of day-dreaming just how much the girls will be impressed when you DO get to let it go! Have fun!

 

[jbc426]

OK, interesting. Well, now you gets hours and hours of day-dreaming just how much the girls will be impressed when you DO get to let it go! Have fun!

Yah, that and about $550 dollars worth of 101 octane unleaded.

The good news is McLeod has rebuilt and shipped my clutch back. It should be here before the weekend which means I should be burning some of that fuel around town with 3.73's and a 5 speed.