( INDY rectangle port )
which heads for a 408ci?
- Thread starter 754door
- Start date
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Thats a lot of porting on the edel.'s.
p/schallenger
Well-Known Member
607 hp isn't impressive ? anyways i've been there and guys running 600 hp are usually running in the low 10's to high 9's with a totally streetable 10.5:1 2700 to 3000lbs a body. you can spend the money with eddy's or commando's but for the money you aren't going to come close to those numbers without a real head like indy's or w-2, w-5's. whoever doesn't think 607 hp isn't a big deal is crazy. that article from carcraft doesn't show the whole engine build . like i said in an earlier reply they made 583hp with a single 850 on an m1. i'll email you every article of the build if i have too! i run 11.5 in a 3700lbs challenger with 4.10 gears. race weight is 3946lbs! i'd like to see a combo with eddy's on it run those times, oh yeh i did it myself it went 11.8. do not spend the money on those other heads you'll be chasing ghosts. spend your money wisely ! i know i didn't the first time. another thing with aluminum heads is it says you have 11.5:1 but it's the same as having 10.5:1 with cast
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
That is a totally unsupportable statement. Every dyno is different regardless of the make.
As for 600 HP not being a big deal, maybe it's not considering what they did to get it, a stroker with a tunnel ram. My stock stroke 360 with an M1 single plane 4150 flange with a 900 cfm carb, W5 heads with 2.02 valves and solid flat tappet cam makes 600 HP.
I do know the car runs 10.52 @ 126.7 mph ,weighing 3250 lbs , And this dyno has run other engines that had , so called hp, they were disheartened with their results on this dyno.
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340srule
Guest
Is that a proven 600 or just a wild guess..??..
p/schallenger
Well-Known Member
what kind of rpm are running with your 360 ? also what did you motor make for tourqe. the 360 a bomb made 551ftlbs. i bet your solid lifter 360 doesn't come close. peak hp was what i really like on that motor because it came in at 6300 rpm.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
It's an approximate paper calculation of what it takes to push a 3100 pound car to a 127 mph trap speed. It works out to 596 flywheel HP. Granted it's not as accurate as an engine dyno but it's close enough for what we do.
As for RPM's I twist it to 7200, it still pulls to 7500 but since the bottom end is pretty much stock (it's a MP crate short block) I try to keep the RPM's down.
I can tell you the heads flow 300 cfm's @ .600 lift and 305 @ .650. With the 1.6 rockers the gross lift is .672, minus the valve lash the actual valve lift nets out at .650. This is enough flow to support 600 ponies but since the short block is nothing trick I'd assume it suffers a little there.
As for the torque? Who knows. It leaves harder than my 340 did but doesn't run as strong at the top end. The 340 (spinning to 8000 RPM's) was a real top end charger.
The car runs virtually the same with the 360 as it did with the 340, within .02.
As for RPM's I twist it to 7200, it still pulls to 7500 but since the bottom end is pretty much stock (it's a MP crate short block) I try to keep the RPM's down.
I can tell you the heads flow 300 cfm's @ .600 lift and 305 @ .650. With the 1.6 rockers the gross lift is .672, minus the valve lash the actual valve lift nets out at .650. This is enough flow to support 600 ponies but since the short block is nothing trick I'd assume it suffers a little there.
As for the torque? Who knows. It leaves harder than my 340 did but doesn't run as strong at the top end. The 340 (spinning to 8000 RPM's) was a real top end charger.
The car runs virtually the same with the 360 as it did with the 340, within .02.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
This may be true but still no two dyno's produce the same results. Besides the calibration the skill of the operator has something to do with it as well.
Same as with flow benches. No two will ever produce identical results.
lead69
hopeless car junkie
A little off the subject but there are many ways to skin a cat,you have the small cube guys running gear/rpm and a ton of camshaft/lift and the larger cube guys with more lowend torque and lower h.p. peaks.Obviously the latter have more streetable combos and generally are going to get alot more life out of their combo due to the lower peaks and milder valvetrain parts to equal the same performance.If you keep up at all with the eingine builder callenges then some might have stumbled across the article featuring John Kasse (sp?) in which they ask him alot of questions regarding engine theory and how it actually pans out at the dyno challenge.One of the things I found interesting is almost all the engines being built for the challenge now are closer to square and theyre doing it for the above reasons and making insane power with livable engines,theres also alot of other good info-its easy to find if you search for it.As for the heads I would decide based on the performance level you really want-ported iron heads can get you some pretty good numbers.I like some others am no real fan of edelbrocks and would buy a set of econo w2s over them in a second and If I really wanted to get serious and had the money It would be beween indy and mopar performance but i would have to do some research.
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340srule
Guest
Hmmmmmmmmm..11.80's with Edelbrocks,and only 11.50's with w2's,and muscle motors says you'll need to spend another 1500.00 on Edelbrocks to get them to perform..Geez i'm running 11.0's with a VERY mildly ported set of Edelbrocks on top of my 416,and no where near 3500.00 in them!!!
How much was it to port the Edelbrock heads?
Did you cange valves out for different ones?
You changed the springs to meet the cams specs or purchased the matched springs for the cam to swap on the Edel. head?
What work did you do yourself?
Just wondering since some of us will pay someone for everything and others will do some or all the work. Theres a big difference there. Not to mention some speed shops will charge more to alot more if there name is known.
what do you guys think the of the indy/edelbrock heads that are $2500 for the kit. Are they modified enough to support the kind of power I want. Or should I just buy a set of untouched eddy magnum or la heads and port them myself to what I want. Don't have enough funds to buy indy 360-1 heads. I won't be buying the heads tell this winter sometime and porting them in my head porting 2 class. or after that.
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340srule
Guest
Out of the box Edelbrocks,nothing was changed except a mild port job Best Machine did all the work!!!
p/schallenger
Well-Known Member
3500.00 canadian dollars a few years ago. remember the canadian dollar was about .70 cents to the u.s. dollar and the heads cost me 2000.00 even. 11.0's is very impressive but in what kind of car. my challenger ways almost 4000lbs with me in it. that motor that ran 11.5 in my challenger is going into a 2500 pound tube chassis duster. the edelbrock heads i had were unported and my w-2's have had some pocket porting done to them in the past as well as 2.08 valves. but 3 tenths is a significant gain just buy changing one thing, the intake manifolds were the same brand, edelbrock victor w2 and an edelbrock victor so there was no diff there, same headers and the same carb same cam etc.
But you say 3 tenths with a pocket ported w2 vs. a unported edelbrock. W2 flow more than edelbrocks out of the box and they have porting. So it is like comparing a ported head to a stock head. Or apples to oranges or a race head, to street head.
No no, he said;
Did they back cut the valves?
Seat work?
Just a bowl hogging?
And if you remember, how much to perform the work?
Best Machine close to you?
Thanks
Did they back cut the valves?
Seat work?
Just a bowl hogging?
And if you remember, how much to perform the work?
Best Machine close to you?
Thanks
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Not really. Any head will need to have some clean up port work done in order for it to perform. 3 tenths is a solid 30 horsepower and for just a head change that's a lot.
Let me say this, W2's are good heads. Probably the best cast iron true wedge head ever. However there are better heads out there, not in cast iron though. Eddy's are a step above stock cast iron and can be worked to some pretty good numbers but they still are stock type performance replacement heads, not race heads. To achieve 500 horsepower though a race head is not neeeded.
I like to think ahead. Will I be satisfied with this 2 years down the road? Odds are probably not even 1 year. So I like to save a little longer and spend my money on the best stuff I possibly can that has the capability to perform to my expectations years down the road. That's why I bit the bullet and went with W5's. I just wish I would have done it before I bought W2's.
p/schallenger
Well-Known Member
they just cleaned up the bowls. no back cutting. they even still have the cast valves in them. the rockers are just old ductile iron 1.5 's with steel pedestals. the only reason i say go with the w-2's or w-5's is that you can achieve the 500 hp and a couple years down the road you can achieve more if you would like. racers and engine builders never seem to be happy with what they have, they usually want more and more.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
You should be buying new rockers anyway so you shouldn't count that as extra cost, but we all know it is. However it's well worth it once the money has been spent.
what do you think of the fully ported iron ram heads from hughes engines for $1700 plus springs that flow nearly 300cfm. Do these look any good to you guys. I know I need pushrods and rockers but is there anything else that I would need.
moper
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread. My own opinion... Edelbrocks out of the box wont do it. A set of pro ported Edelbrocks will. You can port these yourself if you've never doneit. Not without a lot of practice you dont have yet. A set of prop ported edelbrocks will cost just under what the 360-1 Indys do, and wont flow as well as the Indy's could. I would buy a set of Indys and start fdrom a better place. Hughe's heads are the Engine Quest Magnums, and you will not find rocker gear to take that much abuse unles you spend some bigger money. It's not a question of a few chevy springs and you're good. At least not unless Hughes is doing more than I think they are. I dont know for sure.
600hp aint "a big deal"? That's funny...
600hp aint "a big deal"? That's funny...
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340srule
Guest
For what they have in that engine..no big deal!!!
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