Why not cook marshmallows on my under dash fire?

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Read everything posted here AGAIN. We gave you the info. It's the MAD article link
 
I simply hate how these cars are wired from Factory. Ign, Wipers etc are protected just with fusible link...

I will be removing stock wiring and replacing with some, brobably Summit wiring harness, will also add second fuse box next to battery.

and btw Budweiser is bad beer, tastes like water :)
 
67dart273, I like the MAD article, it's a good read and awesome info. Will definitely be doing the bypass. Although, the article still doesn't explain why I have power on both sides of the coil.
 
dkbug said:
67dart273, I like the MAD article, it's a good read and awesome info. Will definitely be doing the bypass. Although, the article still doesn't explain why I have power on both sides of the coil.
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What do you have for ignition? points? Mopar breakerless? MSD? what?

If you have Mopar breakerless either the box is not grounded, the box is bad, or the wiring that got fried welded something together out under the hood

Frankly, looking at the first photo of "fried" you posted, I'd start with the latter

This is not my rodeo. But I've been on a few. Original Mopar harnesses are NOT well protected, here's a very good / bad example. That is a good example of a bad problem.

Let's say you suffer a problem in the alternator which results in a dead short at the alternator output stud

Look at the MAD article. The "dead short" extends all the way around the engine bay harness on the Big Black alternator wire WHICH IS GOING TO GET HOT. It goes through the bulkhead, and heats up those terminals. It runs up to the ammeter, and heats up the black in that harness, through the ammeter, which it might damage, and out on the red which goes back out the bulkhead.

And it heats THAT up to smoking hot stinking smelly.

And finally, "if you are lucky" at some point the fuse link goes pffffssszfffzfzffzfzffffffppphhhhhhttt!!! ???

And you have..........two ruined harnesses.
 
dkbug said:
Now, I assume..........
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You just keep doin that. You've asked for advice and been given it from some who has MADE A LIVING doing electrical work, yet, you keep askin the same thing over and over like you are hopin someone tells you the answer you wanna here. You have a FORTY FOUR year old wiring harness. Get a clue. You NEED to get that dash harness out so you can see it ALL and make the mods in the MAD article like Del advised you.

Or you can assume your car into a pile of ashes.
 
Ok. I bypassed the amp meter. Dropped the column pulled all of the wires going to it and rewired the fusible links with the appropriate gauge wire with new links. However I did not run it through a voltmeter yet. I just have them spliced. I pulled all the wires going to the black fuse box and inspected every single one and installed all new glass fuses. The only thing I didn't do that the article said to do was drill through the bulk connector to run your red wire.

Now, with that out of the way, I still have the same problem. I have power at both sides of the coil.

New condenser, new points, new ballast, new coil x2, new voltage regulator.

I checked all the grounds at the voltage regulator and ballast.

I called a friend of mine and he asked about a little "bug" that a Grey wire plugs into at the manifold on the passenger side. I found the Grey wire that runs along side the alternator and coolant temp sensor wires, unplugged. No clue what wire it is or what is actually goes to.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, DK
 
Oh yeah and I am running points. Trying to get it running like a stock 440 then adding electronic ignition etc...
 
dkbug said:
Ok. I bypassed the amp meter. Dropped the column pulled all of the wires going to it and rewired the fusible links with the appropriate gauge wire with new links. However I did not run it through a voltmeter yet. I just have them spliced. I pulled all the wires going to the black fuse box and inspected every single one and installed all new glass fuses. The only thing I didn't do that the article said to do was drill through the bulk connector to run your red wire.

Now, with that out of the way, I still have the same problem. I have power at both sides of the coil.

New condenser, new points, new ballast, new coil x2, new voltage regulator.

I checked all the grounds at the voltage regulator and ballast.

I called a friend of mine and he asked about a little "bug" that a Grey wire plugs into at the manifold on the passenger side. I found the Grey wire that runs along side the alternator and coolant temp sensor wires, unplugged. No clue what wire it is or what is actually goes to.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, DK
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You need to learn to read a diagram. I'm not being mean or sarcastic, I mean "that's a fact."

The grey wire to the "little bug" in the rear is the oil sender wire.

If you have the key in "run" and you have voltage on both sides of the coil, it means YOUR POINTS ARE OPEN or "open" electriclally, IE dirty and not making contact, internally broken distributor wire, whatever. Points are a simple switch to ground.
 
67Dart273 said:
You need to learn to read a diagram. I'm not being mean or sarcastic, I mean "that's a fact."

The grey wire to the "little bug" in the rear is the oil sender wire.

If you have the key in "run" and you have voltage on both sides of the coil, it means YOUR POINTS ARE OPEN or "open" electriclally, IE dirty and not making contact, internally broken distributor wire, whatever. Points are a simple switch to ground.
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Oh and I can read a diagram.. The one I have printed out didn't have anything printed next to the "sensor" that wire fed too.
 
ok if you are getting power at both sides of the coil then the (-) wire is wired to the wrong place....

one wire of the coil goes to the ballast resistor, the other wire goes to the ECU

if you dont have an ECU, but had one before, then you need to get the wiring diagram from a points car and wire it that way. pretty sure that - wire that went to the ecu now goes to the dizzy. but again (again) get the wiring diagram from mymopar.org

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70DartA.JPG

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=27
 
We assume you know that the points open and close as the engine turns. When stopped, they can be either open or closed. Pull the distributor cap and turn the engine over slowly by hand. You should see the rotor turn and the cam on the shaft push the points open and close. If the rotor doesn't turn, and you have a slant six engine (didn't tell us!), the plastic gear on the bottom probably broke. Replacements are cheap (ebay). Otherwise, figure out why the points aren't opening (wrong gap, ...). When they are open at max, measure the gap w/ feeler gage and set to factory spec.

If still no spark, best to remove the distributor and spin it by hand for easier testing. You must ground the case to the engine (and that to BATT-) for it to work. A bad ground could even be your "as installed" no-spark problem. If still no spark, go real basic, like a high school physics lab. Instead of the distributor, connect a jumper wire to coil-. Ground it for 1 sec. You should get a spark each time you remove it from ground. Post photos so we verify you understand each test.
 
Won't be able to get to the car until in the morning. I did have the cap off and had a friend turn the motor over. You can see when the points make contact because it arcs over. I put the points in and a new condenser. Didn't try to turn it over since I didn't have an extra hand. I'll give it a go tomorrow morning and let you guys know.
 
By the way it's a 440 running points. I know how a basic points setup runs I just didn't recall having power on both sides of the coil.
 
dkbug said:
I'll replace the points/condenser tomorrow. I'll let you know.
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You need to diagnose it instead of just throwing parts at it. If the circuit is open instead of the points themselves, you will replace the points for nothing. That's Del is trying to tell you. It might be the points, but there are plenty of other places for the circuit to be open. You need to actually find it, instead of shotgunning parts at it.

I don't understand. Why don't people actually diagnose anything anymore?
 
Ok so let's think about this then. Could the problem be before the coil? If so what? Resistor, ignition switch, burnt wire? If not, then what is after it? Bad ground, points, condenser, bad wire going to distributor? I can put a ground wire, condenser, and a set of new points for less than 10 bucks.
 
RustyRatRod said:
You need to diagnose it instead of just throwing parts at it. If the circuit is open instead of the points themselves, you will replace the points for nothing. That's Del is trying to tell you. It might be the points, but there are plenty of other places for the circuit to be open. You need to actually find it, instead of shotgunning parts at it.

I don't understand. Why don't people actually diagnose anything anymore?
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+1.

Im also removing my post because the MAD article is more informative. Been a LONG time since I looked at an old mopar harness.
 
I guess I just have a hard time trying to diagnose an electrical problem with my equipment.
 
dkbug said:
I guess I just have a hard time trying to diagnose an electrical problem with my equipment.
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I'm running out of ways to say this

You say you know how to read a diagram, but you don't seem to get this, so here comes the (I have formerly been accused of condescending) answer

Power comes OUT of the bulkhead on the "ignition run" wire, dark blue, known by Ma as "IGN 1"

This is battery power with the key in RUN

It goes THROUGH the ballast

It goes TO the plus side of the coil

through the coil

through the distributor "primary" wire

to the points wire stud and nut connection

and if the points are working, on/ off to ground

You almost don't NEED any equipment. You almost can shoot this with nothing but your brain

Turn the key on. Take a screwdriver, pliers, clip lead, chuck of wire, ANYTHING, a quarter even

With the distributor cap off, jam it between the breaker points wire connection and ground.

You should get a spark. If you are holding a coin, you will likely get zapped a bit.

Or take a meter. OR a test lamp. Hook from COIL NEG to ground. See if you have power. Short that wire connection at the points. If it will not ground, the distributor wire is bad. THIS HAPPENS. Vibration can break them typically inside the grommet where they feed through the distributor. In fact, it happened to me, years ago.

If you can "ground" out the points AT THE POINTS wire terminal in the distributor, this means the circuit is GOOD clear to that point

That would mean..............

the points are dirty / corroded and not conducting juice

Or they have been adjusted wrong and won't close.
 
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