why not synthetic

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Princess Valiant

A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
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in another thread I caught where someone said to not run synthetic oil .......that caught my attention because I have heard that before from other people.

this also caught my attention because I was told auto school that synthetic oil is a good thing.

and the reason is: its basically lab created and has more consistent microscopic ball bearings which the essence of oil itself .....so because its more consistent it has different break down patterns that conventional which is a good thing regarding engine wear.

also there are chemicals added to keep it from breaking down and keep the viscosity more consistent for a longer time as compared to conventional.

so my question is: do I have the wrong info about synthetic oil and is synthetic oil a bad thing or good?
 
isn't fresh oil so pretty ......it has a unique sparkle and smell.

almost as sweet as a opening a fresh can of grease ......It has a vibrant color and almost neutral smell......especially the Valvoline brand IMO.

I don't know why I get mezmorized with new oil ....actually fresh anti-freeze is pretty too....the green one. .......ok that was just a thought
 

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I think it a case of the lack of ingredients that the old oil has.
 
..................syn is great for newer motors, our classics/muscle cars need dino with there flat tappet cams.........kim.........
 
Also older engines like zinc in the oil which synthetic oil doesn't have. My Expedition runs on a synthetic oil blend which it was deigned for. My Cordoba good old dino.
 
Reni, I have been using Mobil one, almost since it's introduction. I've had more gas powered engines turn over 300,000 miles than I can remember. But, more importantly, I have never, not once, experienced an engine failure while using it. No spun bearings, no broken rods, no collapsed lifters, no scored cylinder walls or even ring failures.
I took apart a 1976 318 after running it for nearly 390,000 miles. They weren't all "highway miles" either. I bought that truck new while I was living in NJ, and rebuilt 14 years later, (that was 1990 here in Ga., and it was still running fine when I did it. I was giving the truck to my oldest son, and I wanted to be sure it was reliable, so I pulled the engine and rebuilt it.
Surprisingly I did not have to over bore the cylinders, a simple honing was enough to clean them up to uniform size and re-establish the crosshatching. I had it decked and aligned. all the bearing journals were good, and the crank was good. for nearly 400K miles, there was very little build up in the crank case or the heads, and before actually cleaning the block, I rane som elong pipe cleaners therough the oil gallaries, and there was no resistance in any of them, NONE.
Even the machine shop techs were impressed with it, and remarked repeatedly about it's condition.

Yes, there are people who say never to use synthetics, some even claim never to use synthetic trans fluid. I suppose they have their reason, and their "proof", and I'm not posting to argue with their logic. I'm merely telling you of my experience with synthetics, particularly Mobile One ( I've also used Royal Purple for a time with no complaints).

I'm very happy with synthetic lubes, and use it en all my vehicles, and will continue to do so. It does costs more, and usually that's a turn off to people. In my opinion it costs more, because it's worth more.
 
One of the myths I've often heard is if you switch over to a synthetic, start expecting to see oil leaks develop. I use it in my daily driver, and I'll use it in my Dart when it's done. One thing I can't stand seeing is hard carbon forming around piston ring lands from the high heat in that area, and if synthetics can keep that from happening, I'm all for it.
 
Synthetic oil is a better lubricant.. That said, that very quality is why you don't want to use it to break in a new or rebuilt engine, or even a new upper end. Once you have broken in the components properly with a good dino oil (with high zinc if an older engine), using a good synthetic oil is fine. Theoretically it is a better oil to use - whether it can justify the added cost is always a question. The one caveat though, even if you properly break in an engine and switch over to running synthetic, if you have a high performance motor with high spring pressures, use an oil with high zinc... Doesn't matter if you run a roller cam or not. If you have spring seat pressures much over 400 lbs you should run high zinc, synthetic or dino. IMO
 
I'm a die hard Valvoline syn blend user.

All my vehicles get it every 5000 miles give or take.

2003 PT- 104,000 miles

2000 Dakota- 141,000 miles

1973 Satellite- too early to tell. Clean after first change almoat due for second- 59,000
 
Friend who is an airplane mechanic told me engines using syn oil showed no to minimal wear. These are engines that have oil changed at specified hours, and rebuilds required at 3000 hours. I know aircraft and car engines are different but he said the wear differences were very noticable from what he saw.
 
It's personal preference. Nothing more nothing less.
 
Synthetics are great, the most important thing though is proper change intervals for the oil and filter no matter what you use.
And our older cars need the zinc additives regardless of the oil used.
A lot of people are against synthetics for some reason.
I have had and have seen good results with them especially with wear over a long period of time.
It is the industry standard for the aviation industry as well as formula one racing to name a few. If it wasn't any good, why would they use it?
And it's not because they are too lazy to change their oil regularly! lol
 
Here's the skinny on synthetics;

Mobil 1 used to be a true synthetic base stock oil. Meaning that it used a synthetic, lab created base, plus it's additives.

Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec and Pennzoil synthetic are not a synthetic base. This means that they are not a true, full synthetic oil and have not been this way for well over a decade, now.

The laws have changed in the United States as to what type of oil can be classified as a synthetic. This means that a crude oil base stock can be classified as a synthetic oil, because it is refined with synthetic bases as one of the additives, rather than a majority base stock to start with.

There are three types of actual synthetic bases that real synthetic oils are made from.

Everything from API Group 1, 2 and 3 are crude base stocks. Group 3 base stocks are treated with very high molecular refinement and have close properties to Group 4, but are just shy of it.

Group 4 is where true synthetic oil begins. The types of synthetics used today as a base stock are Polyalphaolefin (PAO) and/ or Ester.

Mobil 1 is a crude base stock oil, that falls under group 3 refining. The US courts have sided with petromechanical companies, classifying crude base stocks that are refined to API group 3 standards as a "synthetic" oil, when in reality, they are, without a doubt, crude base stock.

The relevance of synthetic oil in an engine has to do with what components the oil is being used with.

Most synthetic oils, and a lot of crude base stock oils that are widely/ easily available are void of the additives in the additive packs used in them, that old engines need.

Zinc is one of the additives being omitted by the majority of manufacturers, as well as equally, if not more importantly included phosphates being left out.

This is because new cars have catalytic converters that these heavy mineral additives can bond to the platinum in the element and inhibit a catalytic converter's ability to remove hydrocarbons from the gasses that it contacts.

So really, what you should ask yourself, is what is in your oil, regardless of synthetic or crude base stock, against what is in your engine.

Flat tappet and looser bearing designs, made from softer metals need the minerals in the additive pack to keep the engine lubricated as it was designed to be.

New engines have everything rollerized, as well as fuel injected, have tighter bearing tolerances made from aluminum and less forgiving materials, so you don't need the additives in those engines, because they are more controlled.

Newer oils inherently have more detergents in them, in percentage, so the tighter tolerances and less forgiving materials can live cleaner. This is bad news for mineral additives, because the added amount of detergents pull them from the surfaces, along with the carbon they're designed to clean.

My advice to you and anyone is to get an oil report from a lab on the type of oil you have your preference for, to see if it contains the correct amount of each additive, for your engine.

The truth is, unless you know what is in the oil, currently, you actually have no idea what you are doing to the engine.

I destroyed a stock cam, using Mobil 1 with ZDDP additive, in a flat tappet 318. I'm convinced that this was because of the high detergent levels counteracting the additives.

Do your homework or cross your fingers.
 
Synthetics are great, the most important thing though is proper change intervals for the oil and filter no matter what you use.
And our older cars need the zinc regardless of the oil used.

that's what it comes down to... flat tappet or high spring rates you need the zddp, dino oil or syn oil... personally im to chicken to switch over on a broke in motor, cant afford something to go wrong...
 
I have used Mobil 1 since it was the recommended oil for Shelby Dodge turbo motors. But I got out of those cars so I don't use it on a regular basis now. I wasn't aware of the changes DaveBonds mentioned so I appreciate the info.

I use regular oil in both my late models but have been thinking about switching to synthetic on both of them.

I bought up a bunch of oil years ago when it was cheap so I still have some of the older formula to use in my old heaps.

Is anyone familiar with Champion brand motor oil? Hemmings also sell it under their name for classic cars. But Champion also has it for diesels and late models, too. www.championbrands.com

Dallas
 
I have used Mobil 1 since it was the recommended oil for Shelby Dodge turbo motors. But I got out of those cars so I don't use it on a regular basis now. I wasn't aware of the changes DaveBonds mentioned so I appreciate the info.

I use regular oil in both my late models but have been thinking about switching to synthetic on both of them.

I bought up a bunch of oil years ago when it was cheap so I still have some of the older formula to use in my old heaps.

Is anyone familiar with Champion brand motor oil? Hemmings also sell it under their name for classic cars. But Champion also has it for diesels and late models, too. www.championbrands.com

Dallas

if their plugs are any indication the oil will be terrible
 
God forbid if anyone uses any technology newer than 1955.Some thing have stood the test of time but there is nothing wrong with new and improved either.
 
God forbid if anyone uses any technology newer than 1955.Some thing have stood the test of time but there is nothing wrong with new and improved either.

your right but your engine is not new and improved! perfect example is lead, soft seats do not like have fuel with no lead, fact, but hey, it was new and improved...

same with this BS corn fuel, great stuff...
 
wow the info thats here.....i started the thread and then i had to leave for awhile and come back to a lot of info lol.......this is great.

but to be a pain i have a two new questions:

1. i have seen people add a quart of trans fluid to the oil every other oil change and the logic is that the trans fluid has detergents that will actually clean out the engine of previous neglect ....and i have to admit i did this on my slant six in my dart when i first got the car ......when i got the the oil in it from the previous was kinda sludgy ...and the filter on it was ancient ......it was k-mart brand.....like how old is that........i did notice increased leaking after that ....so i replaced the oil pan and valve cover gaskets and been running now over a year and i have put around 12,000 miles with no other problems.

whats you take on trans fluid in the oil. is it a good idea.

2. would synthetic call for a different oil change interval than dino?
on newer cars i have been in the habit of letting it go 5000 for oil changes ....and usually i look at the oil and it really is pretty clean and the engines are in great shape.......would the dino really break down faster and not make 5000......assuming the engine is in good shape as i understand a worn engine will dirty any oil with blowby and in-efficiency.
 
There are two drawbacks I see with synthetic. One is, if you do not drive your car very much and it is a flat tapped cam equipped engine. Synthetic flows so well, that it can run completely off the camshaft over time and cause dry starts. Not good even on a roller, much less a flat tappet. Secondly, if you change oil to synthetic from carbon based oil, it is possible the synthetic could find leaks where the carbon based oil did not. Synthetic oil flows that good.
 
your right but your engine is not new and improved! perfect example is lead, soft seats do not like have fuel with no lead, fact, but hey, it was new and improved...

same with this BS corn fuel, great stuff...

I guess my point was that newer technology is at least worth a look and shouldn't be ignored just because "it ain't the good old stuff".
If people knew what it actually cost in other resources to produce a gallon of corn fuel they would be surprised and never use that crap.
 
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