young gun needs to learn some old tricks

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MoparDreamin

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Being a young gun I cut my teeth on computer controlled fuel injection cars. I just bought a 1965 Dart GT 2732bl and the timing and fueling is all out of whack on that thing. Can you guys recommend any resources (books, videos, websites) to get me started futzing around with the carb and ignition timing. I am lost without a laptop, wideband, and VE table:read2:
 
MoparDreamin said:
Being a young gun I cut my teeth on computer controlled fuel injection cars. I just bought a 1965 Dart GT 2732bl and the timing and fueling is all out of whack on that thing. Can you guys recommend any resources (books, videos, websites) to get me started futzing around with the carb and ignition timing. I am lost without a laptop, wideband, and VE table:read2:
Click to expand...

Maybe give us some of the symptoms you're experiencing and we can help you out here.
 
65Val said:
Maybe give us some of the symptoms you're experiencing and we can help you out here.
Click to expand...

I am having some detonation under light load and some surging.

Also running rich under load as well. Not spitting any black smoke yet, but rich enough to tear the eyes.

Idle is not rich, bet definetley choppy.

Difficulty with hot starts.
 
MoparDreamin said:
I am having some detonation under light load and some surging.

Also running rich under load as well. Not spitting any black smoke yet, but rich enough to tear the eyes.

Idle is not rich, bet definetley choppy.

Difficulty with hot starts.
Click to expand...

First thing I would recommend good tuneup...plugs, wires, cap, rotor, filters.

Then do a complete carb rebuild. In the kit, there should be a list of instructions to follow to complete the task. Make sure you blow out all passages with compressed air and set the floats as per the instructions.

Detonation could be as simple as backing up the timing a smidge. Do you have a timing light?

Choppy idle could be carb idle adjustments as well.

Difficult start/rich-running could be a few things...make sure your choke is opening as the engine warms up. A stuck-on choke will cause rich running and teary eyes, as will improperly set floats or leaking inlet needles.

Maybe someone in your area can get together with you.

Sounds like a good start to Leanna's "Young Gun" program.
 
Do you have a timing light? Do you have plug wire pliers? Any service manuals?
There are a lot of things that can be contributing. Start with the easy stuff like setting the timing. The fact that it is running eliminates many things.
To set the timing, even if you don't have a timing light, involves loosening the retainer bolt on the distributer at the rear of the engine. Just barely loosen it. Then crank the car, and after noting it's original position, rotate the distributer a small amount and see if the idle gets better or worse. Try both directions. If this has a positive effect, leave it where the best results were obtained, then tighten. If no effect, return to the original setting and tighten. This is called turing by ear. If you have a timing light, read the directions on how to connect it and the timing marks are on the balancer on the front of the engine crankshaft, behind the bottom belt pulley. I can elaborate more on this if you have one.

If you have plug wire pliers, pull each plug wire, one at a time, with the motor running. You should note a drop in performance on each one. If not, that cylinder may have issues, either a bad plug, bad plug wire, bad spot in the distributer, or mechanical problems in the cylinder such as valves, etc. Make sure to firmly replace each plug wire after testing it.

On your car, make sure you are getting 12 (13.2) volts from the alternator. Also, check your voltage regulator and resister.

I would buy new plugs, plug wires, Distributer cap, rotor, and points. This will get you a simple tune up. You may want a new fuel filter as well. This can be quite an expense and does not necessarily have to be done all at once.

The carb may need rebuilding, but there are several adjustments that you can make on it to see if they will solve your problems. This will depend on what carb you have.

There is much more I could share, but you should be looking into getting a 65 chrysler service manual, or at minimum a Haynes (bite my tongue) manual at your local parts store. The tune-up procedures in it are pretty sound.

I haven't been much help, but I hope you get an idea that there is a lot of help available!

Ditto on Leanna's mentor program!!!!! There are people in you area, one in LA and several in San Fran. Go to this link and see, hopefully there will be more coming on board as we have well over 10,000 members i am told.
http://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=165381
 
That was an AWESOME post. Very thorough and helpful. Thanks!

I have a timing light(s), plug wire pliers, Vacuum gauges, wide band O2 ... alot of good tuning stuff.

Basic tune-up done.

Service manual ordered.

The car is in basic running order. I drove it 60 miles today. Most of the symptoms that I listed were pretty slight. Car runs strong at WOT (for 180bhp car anyway).

I need more of a general description of how things work. Just a primer on tuning with a carb and old school ignition. I'm really looking for a good book .....

bamacuda said:
Do you have a timing light? Do you have plug wire pliers? Any service manuals?
There are a lot of things that can be contributing. Start with the easy stuff like setting the timing. The fact that it is running eliminates many things.
To set the timing, even if you don't have a timing light, involves loosening the retainer bolt on the distributer at the rear of the engine. Just barely loosen it. Then crank the car, and after noting it's original position, rotate the distributer a small amount and see if the idle gets better or worse. Try both directions. If this has a positive effect, leave it where the best results were obtained, then tighten. If no effect, return to the original setting and tighten. This is called turing by ear. If you have a timing light, read the directions on how to connect it and the timing marks are on the balancer on the front of the engine crankshaft, behind the bottom belt pulley. I can elaborate more on this if you have one.

If you have plug wire pliers, pull each plug wire, one at a time, with the motor running. You should note a drop in performance on each one. If not, that cylinder may have issues, either a bad plug, bad plug wire, bad spot in the distributer, or mechanical problems in the cylinder such as valves, etc. Make sure to firmly replace each plug wire after testing it.

On your car, make sure you are getting 12 (13.2) volts from the alternator. Also, check your voltage regulator and resister.

I would buy new plugs, plug wires, Distributer cap, rotor, and points. This will get you a simple tune up. You may want a new fuel filter as well. This can be quite an expense and does not necessarily have to be done all at once.

The carb may need rebuilding, but there are several adjustments that you can make on it to see if they will solve your problems. This will depend on what carb you have.

There is much more I could share, but you should be looking into getting a 65 chrysler service manual, or at minimum a Haynes (bite my tongue) manual at your local parts store. The tune-up procedures in it are pretty sound.

I haven't been much help, but I hope you get an idea that there is a lot of help available!

Ditto on Leanna's mentor program!!!!! There are people in you area, one in LA and several in San Fran. Go to this link and see, hopefully there will be more coming on board as we have well over 10,000 members i am told.
http://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=165381
Click to expand...
 
I believe that it is the stock carb ... let me post up a pic in a second here ...

E2CGOY0BMC4z4FcL_GNy8g

Definetly going to rebuild the carb. and play with the timing.

65Val said:
First thing I would recommend good tuneup...plugs, wires, cap, rotor, filters.

Then do a complete carb rebuild. In the kit, there should be a list of instructions to follow to complete the task. Make sure you blow out all passages with compressed air and set the floats as per the instructions.

Detonation could be as simple as backing up the timing a smidge. Do you have a timing light?

Choppy idle could be carb idle adjustments as well.

Difficult start/rich-running could be a few things...make sure your choke is opening as the engine warms up. A stuck-on choke will cause rich running and teary eyes, as will improperly set floats or leaking inlet needles.

Maybe someone in your area can get together with you.

Sounds like a good start to Leanna's "Young Gun" program.
Click to expand...
 
cudamark said:
Yikes! a Stromberg? Can you even get a kit for one of those anymore? If not, and you can find a Carter cheap, I think I'd swap it out.
Click to expand...

Here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Stromberg-2BBL-Carburetor-Kit-1967-60-Dodge-Plymouth-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518517b86fQQitemZ350125275247QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_578wt_930

and another:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Stromberg-Carburetor-Kit-60-71-Dodge-GMC-Plymouth-Chevy-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19b8d9f634QQitemZ110475474484QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_719

They are still out there. identify which one you need, or as suggested, get a carter. I may have a carter 2 bbl from a 65 Barracuda if my swap goes as planned, you can have for $20 plus shipping. Stay tuned!
 
The local kragen will have me one by tommorow for 19.95. Any other carb parts that I should pick-up that aren't included in the kit?
 
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