A833OD inspection results... thoughts?

[Chained_360]

I've never worked on a manual transmission before, so I hope you guys can help me interpret what I found while inspecting this one. I just finished taking a peek inside the A833 overdrive I bought this summer, and I think (hope) that it's in pretty good shape considering it sat for over 20 years. The guy I bought it from said he rebuilt it in '95. All the shift levers moved and locked very smoothly, and the gears engaged nicely too. The side cover took a little convincing to break the seal, but the shift forks slid out easily too.

Overall, the transmission looked to be in pretty good shape. Some of the surface rust is visible in the picture above, but it's all pretty minor, no pitting or anything. The teeth of all the gears are in really good shape, no scoring or chipping or bluing. However, there were still three main concerns: The input shaft has a nice wobble to it, the dog teeth are kind of worn down, and the transmission would make a very soft scraping noise on only part of the rotation as it spun around.

The input shaft would barely touch the bearing retainer collar as I wiggled it, so I think a new input bearing is in order (if it's something else, please let me know!). Third gear was by far the worst. It looks like the dog teeth have absolutely no point to them, which was probably due to the excessive play in the input shaft. I think I'm gonna have to go ahead and get a new input shaft gear, 'cause this one looks like it's toast. Bummer too, because the actual gear teeth are in great shape.

I don't have pictures, but the nicest dog teeth were 4th gear by far. They had a little tiny bit of wear, but still had a good point to them. This next picture is the dog teeth of second gear, and first gear's looked about the same. Sorry for the bad photo, my phone wouldn't play nice with the light, and the gear oil on the teeth make it hard to see.

They didn't have anywhere near as much damage as the input shaft teeth, but they did have some wear on them. More surface rust is visible in this picture, but again there isn't any pitting (the transmission was stored with fluid inside).

The last concern is that soft scraping noise. Basically, as I spun the input shaft, there was about a 80 degree section of the rotation where a soft scraping noise could be heard. It sounded like it was coming from the bottom corner by the cluster gear and reverse. I tried to look, but it didn't look like the gears were contacting the case or wobbling around or anything, so I'm not sure what could be causing it.

Is there anything I missed or should be concerned about? Again, I've never worked on the guts of a manual before, so I'm very green at this. Any advice is appreciated!

 

[AJ/FormS]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the pointing on the clutch teeth, especially about those on the input gear, as by the time you get to selecting it, you'll be up to cruising speed and will hardly need them. The real question is how did they get to look like that; and the answer is cuz the brass quit working.
So now the question is:the brass that is currently in there, is it the quiter, or was it replaced all those years ago?
There is no real way to tell once the parts are all oiled up.So, you have a decision to make; either run it and find out, or strip it down and clean it all up, and then test the gription of the brass on the cone.
If you tear it down,you can easily re-point the teeth with a die-grinder.
Also if you tear it down,you can re-point the teeth on the slider, as may be required.
Also once the bearings are washed and dried you can check them for noise and roughness, and wear.
And finally, you can pinpoint the cause of the scraping noise.Which I'd guess is surface rust in the back bearing.
I don't like RnR-ing those brutes more often than I need to so,I'd be tearing it down.
If you put that trans behind a 360, be advised to take it easy going into overdrive. I stripped all the teeth of two of them......by forgetting that. And when the teeth start flying around in there, there's no telling where they will end up. The cluster in that box is a pretty tight fit in certain spots, and so maybe the teeth end up in a pocket where they can lay harmlessly, but .......probably not. I bought a couple of boxes at swap meets, for spares.
Also if you tear it down, and again for a 360; I recommend to install a steel bushing at the cluster-pin front location, to give the input gear a chance to survive. Hyup, I stripped one of those as well.
Tearing it apart takes no special tools and only requires about 10 minutes. Well unless you don't have a snapring plier. And a press to remove the back bearing.

 

[TrailBeast]

The points on the syncro teeth are not nearly as important as the distance between those and the steel gear.
That looks ok to me from what I can see.
Also remember that the end of the input shaft is supported by the pilot bearing when installed, so that much play in the end of the shaft when not supported by a pilot isn't bad either.

It looks like it was hammered on a bit, but still in decent shape.

 

[67Dart273]

I would tear it down. You cannot see pitting on the balls/ needle bearings without doing so. If I remember correctly the only special tool you really should have is a "duckbill" snap ring pliers. Unfortunately the original KD set I had are long gone, and the "new replacements" are smaller and don't have as much spread. This is for the big snap ring on the ball bearing between the case halves, in the tail housing.

You don't really need an arbor to reinstall the cluster. I used to put the shaft in the cluster, and stack the needles in from the ends with grease, then carefully pull the shaft out. Last time I did this I actually used a cut length of 5/8"? heater hose for an arbor LOL

You can download factory service manuals from MyMopar

 

[Chained_360]

Awesome, thanks you guys. I'm glad to hear that the teeth are in okay condition. And that makes sense about the rust on the bearings, that seems like it would make sense. When I get the chance, I'll tear it down and maybe make a thread on it. I will be putting the transmission behind a warmed over 360, but I don't think it's strong enough to break anything if I'm careful. Once it's in the car, I'm going to treat the transmission like a 3-speed with a cruising gear, because that's really why I bought it. I just wanted to hammer gears and get better gas mileage, and my 904 is leaking anyways. I will call the local machine shops about the steel countershaft bushing though, I know that that is a common reinforcement on aluminum cased units. I'm on a highschooler's budget, so if it's gonna cost me an arm and a leg I'd rather just go gentle on the transmission and at least have it in the car. Thanks again for the help!

Edit: Also, about the brass synchro rings. When I first opened it up before gear oil got everywhere from spinning it, the synchro rings were clearly the newest thing in the transmission. The teeth were in great shape, I'm fairly certain they were replaced when the transmission was rebuilt.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Well,
if it's a cast-iron case,and if you're not gonna beat on it;then I take it back about fabricating a bushing for the front, and especially if it's hard to find a machine shop up there in Anchorage.
As to the brass; the points on them are not a normal wear item. I think they could have a hundred thou on them and show little to no wear on the points. The brass wears on the inside where, installed, you can't see it. Eventually they get so worn, the brass rides further and further towards the base of the cone and one of three things will happen;
A) the slider can no longer apply pressure to the brass, and it will no longer slow the gear down,and the clutch teeth take a beating. or
B) the struts will flip out and you'll be stuck in that gear, or
C) the brass will jump over the strut and spin along with the gear. When that happens, IDK, cuz I never wait that long........But I imagine it will be very difficult to engage that gear, and it will require a great deal of grinding,unless you learn to double clutch it with a high degree of accuracy, but mostly the clutch teeth will take a beating,again,and the struts will probably pop out.

 

[Chained_360]

Well,
if it's a cast-iron case,and if you're not gonna beat on it;then I take it back about fabricating a bushing for the front, and especially if it's hard to find a machine shop up there in Anchorage.
As to the brass; the points on them are not a normal wear item. I think they could have a hundred thou on them and show little to no wear on the points. The brass wears on the inside where, installed, you can't see it. Eventually they get so worn, the brass rides further and further towards the base of the cone and one of three things will happen;
A) the slider can no longer apply pressure to the brass, and it will no longer slow the gear down,and the clutch teeth take a beating. or
B) the struts will flip out and you'll be stuck in that gear, or
C) the brass will jump over the strut and spin along with the gear. When that happens, IDK, cuz I never wait that long........But I imagine it will be very difficult to engage that gear, and it will require a great deal of grinding,unless you learn to double clutch it with a high degree of accuracy, but mostly the clutch teeth will take a beating,again,and the struts will probably pop out.

Well, that's an issue. It's aluminum and I plan to beat on it a little bit. During the summer my Barracuda is my daily driver, and also one of my main sources of entertainment. It's not a race car, it just has a stock compression 360 with an edelbrock street cam, low-rise dual plane offenhauser, long-tube headers, and a holley 650. I think it'll stand up to what I plan on using it for, but I also know that the aluminum units are known for being weaker. I'll call a machine shop and see what they would charge.

 

[moparmat2000]

I need to subscribe to that thread when you start it. I have an A833 O/D aluminum cased 4 speed. Not sure which steel bushing you are talking about needing to help prevent self destruction. I planned on going through mine. I never rebuilt one before, however i'm not a stranger to manuals. I rebuilt a muncie M21, and a new process A555 high capacity fwd transaxle. My A833 doesnt have any burred or battered teeth, but i was going to freshen it up with new seals, gaskets, synchro brass rings, and and bearings anyways. I was going to put this behind a 408. I figured my 67 barracuda is light enough that it could handle it. I really wanted it to wind it out for the 1-2 shift, and just use 4th or O/D gear for highway driving with 3.73s. I guess by previous posts the O/D gear sitting in the 3rd gear slot is kinda delicate for V8 use. No bang shifting into overdrive unless i want it to go "boom".

Ideally id like a Passon A855 O/D box, anybody got $4,500 to lend me lol. Maybe if i win the lottery.

 

[moparmat2000]

There was a place i think in florida called "southern gear" years ago where i bought all the hard to find parts for my A555 since chrysler discontinued everything for it. They may have good deals on the A833 O/D parts since they should be more common. New process also made the A833 O/D and it was used in chevy pickups and vans up thru i think 1984. Internal pieces i think are the same, though input shafts, output shafts, and cases were different. I believe the forks and side covers were the same too.

 

[65 Dartman]

A friend dropped off to Brewers at Carlisle an 833OD To go through and rebuild as needed. He picked it up at the Columbus Nationals. I “think” the bill was something like $6-700. I will check with him and if that’s wrong, update the price info and what Brewers actually did.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Well, that's an issue. It's aluminum and I plan to beat on it a little bit. During the summer my Barracuda is my daily driver, and also one of my main sources of entertainment. It's not a race car, it just has a stock compression 360 with an edelbrock street cam, low-rise dual plane offenhauser, long-tube headers, and a holley 650. I think it'll stand up to what I plan on using it for, but I also know that the aluminum units are known for being weaker. I'll call a machine shop and see what they would charge.

At your power level I think I would let it slide.
8/1 compression is easy on parts, as are the Edelbrock cams.And the Edelbrock plus stock compression together is yet easier on the drive-line.If you installed the 2177 you will have no problems with the cluster pin. That cam has specs of 270/270/110+4, so the ICA works out to 61*. Couple that with an 8/1 360 and you come up with a cylinder pressure around 125psi@ sealevel, which will be ultra easy on parts.
For you, that aluminum case that you have is stronger than it needs to be,lol; the case will not be a weak point.
___________________________________________________________
What Chrysler did was to make the cluster pin float in the case at the front. The hole is several thou bigger than the pin. That area fills up with oil and is said to damp cluster rattle to make your driving experience quieter. I guess it does that cuz I never heard the racket.
What I discovered tho at my power level, and 11.3 compression ratio,and using 50% ATF, is that the constant apply and release of the power IMO slams that pin around pretty good, "wallering" out the hole. I can't prove that this is what caused the demise of my input gear, but you can imagine that as the cluster gear moves away from the input, the tooth loading climbs away from the root of the teeth and up closer to the tips. In any case Zing! I lost all the teeth up front there. I took it to a machine shop, had them bore the hole round, fabricate and install a light pressfit slug it in there, and then bore a new hole, finish-reamed to be a light press-fit also, to the pin.I never broke another gear after that.
Eventually I got me one of those Passon Performance empty aluminum cases, and never gave the gear-train any thought after that.
Now I have to tell you that I ran a GVOD behind that OEM case , and a CFII clutch.And I wired the GV to be a splitter. I shifted that puppy with the pedal to the metal at WOT and a little north of 400HP. It's violent enough to break the 325/50-15 BFG-DRs loose at over 80 mph, with my street suspension. So that's being pretty abusive I guess. That CFII broke a lot of parts until I "wised-up" and got rid of it. It's way more clutch than a streeter needs.But I didn't know that before I bought it,lol.

 

[moparmat2000]

Ok so its the cross pin that retains the cluster gear shaft from moving thats the issue?

Kinda a weird way of doing **** if you ask me. The muncie i built, the cluster gear shaft was press fit in the front and back through bored holes in either end of the case, with bronse thrust washers at either end to keep the gears from eating the case

 

[AJ/FormS]

I need to subscribe to that thread when you start it. I have an A833 O/D aluminum cased 4 speed. Not sure which steel bushing you are talking about needing to help prevent self destruction. I planned on going through mine. I never rebuilt one before, however i'm not a stranger to manuals. I rebuilt a muncie M21, and a new process A555 high capacity fwd transaxle. My A833 doesnt have any burred or battered teeth, but i was going to freshen it up with new seals, gaskets, synchro brass rings, and and bearings anyways. I was going to put this behind a 408. I figured my 67 barracuda is light enough that it could handle it. I really wanted it to wind it out for the 1-2 shift, and just use 4th or O/D gear for highway driving with 3.73s. I guess by previous posts the O/D gear sitting in the 3rd gear slot is kinda delicate for V8 use. No bang shifting into overdrive unless i want it to go "boom".

Ideally id like a Passon A855 O/D box, anybody got $4,500 to lend me lol. Maybe if i win the lottery.

Mat
That 408 will put out more torque obviously, than my 367. But it's not the torque per se, that wallers out that front hole. It's also related to the load that's attached to the driveshaft. With 3.73s the power will pass thru the box with a lot less loading on the gears. I run 3.55s, and 295s on the street most of the time. And I saw on the gas pedal pretty good,or used to in my younger years,lol.
But I gotta say that there will be no winding your combo out on the 1-2. The low gear ratio is 3.09 and coupled with the 3.73s, and 28s, she'll be hitting 6000 at 44 mph. With a 408, this will be a little over 2 seconds out, and she'll be spinning all the way.
Now second,that one you can wind out, as 6000 won't come up until 80mph and that will be around 7 or 8 seconds out,and in all likely hood still spinning.
Your cruizer will make 65=2124ish, So depending on your cam, this could be good or bad, as regards fuel-mileage..
What I'm trying to say is this; that box may not be suited to your combo, Low is too low and hi is too hi, and the splits are more suited to a low rpm engine.
Your 408 certainly won't need a 3.09 x 3.73 =11.53 starter gear. This is enough gear that even a 273 can light up the tires. Ima thinking you could get away with about 8.6 as a starter, which would be a regular old 2.66 low with 3.23s to get 8.59. Slipping out the clutch at 160 ftlbs, this makes 1374 ftlbs into the rear axles and more than enough to break the biggest tires loose that you can put into the stock tubs. And my guess is that your 408 can make more than that 160ftlbs by 1800rpm.
The flipside of 3.23s is that they will cruise at 65=2519 with those 28s, and I'm betting the cam in that 408 will like that better than 2124, and so the fuel-mileage may not change much. And you won't need to downshift to pass. (you will with the od box or risk splitting that od gear.
And finally with 3.23s you can "wind that first gear out" to 6000=58 mph, and you can do the 1/8 at the top of third trapping very near the power-peak, and the quarter in the middle of 4th, at or near the torque peak..
And the best part for me is 35mph is 2550 in second,very sneaky, but downshifting into first, the engine will hit 3600 and the car will explode with acceleration. I wonder if the 408 couldn't do that even in second,lol,no downshift required. And if it handles that,you're good to wind it out to over 80mph in second.
The only downside to this combo is if you can't tune your engine to hit 160 ftlbs smoothly at an rpm that you're comfortable with., and that it doesn't explode with power right after that,lol.
You know, not like an old Mustang that you have to rev it to 3000 just to get moving. I never liked that. 302s were just too small for me.
So again it comes down to your cam and compression marriage, and how well the carb will work at that small throttle opening.
In my entire life, l've never had any engine bigger than my 367, ever. It handled this situation very well with a 223@.050, and even a 750 DP, allbeit with a 8 or 9% more starter gear. It was a dump it and go deal. That is to say, blip the throttle and more or less dump the clutch, letting the heavy street flywheel do the job.I currently run a 230@.050 and a starter gear of 10.97,so 26% more than the above described 3.23s and 2.66. This is also a dump it and go deal. It's way more gear than I need, to spin 295s. I only run it cuz I have the GVOD for cruising 65=2244, and I'm too lazy to put the 3.23s back in, or even 2.94s My combo likes 2244 to cruise with so I just suffer not being able to wind it out.....Well that's not exactly true; when I run outta revs in first I hit the splitter button, and she's good to 68ish mph..........if the tires stop spinning.........lol
I'm reasonably confident that you can get a tune like this into your 408 with any reasonable street cam and compression marriage.
And the clincher is/are that I've never heard of anybody breaking an A833 on the street, so your worries are over,and up here, $250 is the going price, the last time I looked. Swap-meet od boxes were $50 back in 2004.
And finally my box has the 3.09 low. he ratios are 3.09-1.92-1.39-1.00 as compared to the standard box having; 2.66-1.91-1.40-1.00.
So you can either keep the 3.23s for 16% more blast of power. Or back up to say 2.94 rear gear, and still have a starter of 9.08,(which is 5.7% better than the 3.23x 2.66) but now 65 will be 2293,( which is 226rpm lower or about 8.9% less). With the 9.08 starter gear you can still wind it out to 60=6540rpm,or about 5 seconds, then ease it into overdrive. You will of course likely be spinning the whole way,lol. On second thought, slam it into direct first.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Ok so its the cross pin that retains the cluster gear shaft from moving thats the issue?

Kinda a weird way of doing **** if you ask me. The muncie i built, the cluster gear shaft was press fit in the front and back through bored holes in either end of the case, with bronse thrust washers at either end to keep the gears from eating the case

Not cross-pin, rather cluster pin, the steel shaft that carries the cluster.
This is how all other A833s are built. It's just the od box that has the floating front end. When used for it's intended purpose, it works well and long, and I thought it was a simple solution. It only becomes an issue cuz we hammer 2, 3, and 4 times as much torque thru it as anything it was ever built to handle. Remember, these originally came on slantys and lo-po 318s, probably topping out at under 200 ftlbs crank..

 

[RustyRatRod]

Lookin at a transmission like that is kinda like admirin a hooker. She may look hot as hell on the outside, but no tellin what you might be gettin yourself in for.

Jes sayin.

 

[AJ/FormS]

There was a place i think in florida called "southern gear" years ago where i bought all the hard to find parts for my A555 since chrysler discontinued everything for it. They may have good deals on the A833 O/D parts since they should be more common. New process also made the A833 O/D and it was used in chevy pickups and vans up thru i think 1984. Internal pieces i think are the same, though input shafts, output shafts, and cases were different. I believe the forks and side covers were the same too.

So far as I was able to figure it out;
The only internal hard parts between the GM and Mopar that are the same is the low gear, and the thrust washers.
All the tooth counts are different and you can't mix them with anything found in a Mopar box. I found a stash of GM boxes once in my search for spares, and the stash was cheap. But they were a no-go fit on the input, so I had to pass. Thinking back, the stash was probably cheap enough that I could have spliced two inputs together and have been set probably for life.
You could put the entire GM geartrain into your Mopar box,and with the Mopar mainshaft and tailhouse; but then you'd be left with trying to support the input pilot, and fitting a GM 10 spline disc. And don't know, if the splines on the GM input will be end up in the right place to be driven;I think not.
Another option is an adapter bellhouse

 

[moparmat2000]

I will be putting in a stock 318 with a 4bbl and headers to get it on the road, and eventually a stroker 408, and hopefully a passon 5 speed. The 318 would be fine, and prob sporting enough with this transmissions ratios, and rear ratio.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I will be putting in a stock 318 with a 4bbl and headers to get it on the road, and eventually a stroker 408, and hopefully a passon 5 speed. The 318 would be fine, and prob sporting enough with this transmissions ratios, and rear ratio.

Oh yes, the 318 will love it, mine sure did.Even with just 3.55s. But 3.91s really woke her up.This made second gear a winner. 35 was a tick over 2800, so she was ready to rock! I put some valve springs on her and spun that stocker to 5000 on a regular basis. This got me 62 mph easy enough at the top of second. Those 3.73s will get you 65=4860 with 28s; 4600 with 26.5s

 

[moparmat2000]

I think i was gonna run a 255 60 15 on the back. Thats a 27" tall tire isnt it?

BTW American Powertrain Warehouse has a kit for freshening up the NP A833 O/D. Comes w seals, gaskets. Bearings, snap rings, thrust washers, synchro rings for $126 i figure thats a pretty good deal. If theres other issues inside it, they have gears, input shafts, hubs etc.

Do you have a pic or 2 of the cross shaft pin, and area thats a problem child with these O/D boxes. Along with more details on how to fix. If mine is undamaged, is there and easier way than a machine shop. I got too many places out by me that are a little "shenady on the ding dang" if you know what i mean. If i can do this at home i'd prefer it. I got one shop that i trust w engine machining thats it. If the 318s gonna love it, maybe i should give that a mild refresh and forget the 408. Although the thought of having a 408 boiling the hides up to 65 mph sounds kinda fun lol

 

[moparmat2000]

Lookin at a transmission like that is kinda like admirin a hooker. She may look hot as hell on the outside, but no tellin what you might be gettin yourself in for.

Jes sayin.

ROFLMAO

 

[AJ/FormS]

comments inside the quote

I think i was gonna run a 255 60 15 on the back. Thats a 27" tall tire isnt it? The math says yes

BTW American Powertrain Warehouse has a kit for freshening up the NP A833 O/D. Comes w seals, gaskets. Bearings, snap rings, thrust washers, synchro rings for $126 i figure thats a pretty good deal. If theres other issues inside it, they have gears, input shafts, hubs etc. Sounds pretty good to me. I've had to pay that much just for the back bearing.

Do you have a pic or 2 of the cross shaft pin I'm not trying to be a dork, but the pin I am referring to is usually called the countershaft, or cluster-shaft/cluster-pin . A cross shaft pin is found in a differential.
and area that's a problem-child with these O/D boxes.I don't think it's a problem-child when used as intended. Mine might even have been OK with straight gear-oil. I just know that in my combo it couldn't take it.I use 50% ATF,and 50% 80/90 EP oil. This gives me the shift quality I want with some wear-protection for the countershaft. I would like to run 100% ATF, but in my experience the counter shaft doesn't like that.The ATF just shifts faster at 7000rpm.
Along with more details on how to fix.See earlier post. If mine is undamaged, is there and easier way than a machine shop. I don't think so,unless you gave a milling machine. I got too many places out by me that are a little "shenady on the ding dang" if you know what i mean. If i can do this at home i'd prefer it. I got one shop that i trust w engine machining thats it. If the 318s gonna love it, maybe i should give that a mild refresh and forget the 408.
If you're already thinking this way, then just do it! Altho I highly recommend a 360. You can run a cam at least two sizes smaller for the same power, and reap the benefits of massive off-the-line torque, that you just can't get with a teener. And the small-cam 360 will also love that wide-ratio box. If you engineer it right, the 360 is a very diverse platform.
Although the thought of having a 408 boiling the hides up to 65 mph sounds kinda fun lol. You don't need a 408 to do that; you just need your engine to pull like a 408 from zero to 65mph,and those 255s will melt like butter. With street suspension, the 360 and 262 with the right gears,will spin 255s all the way to 65 as well.

You probably want to sit down and list your must-haves from your combo, so you can begin to form a game plan.
A lazy engine runs about .8 hp per cubic inch. this will burn any old crap gas, and get you moving reasonably well. For a 318 this is about 255hp, and a 360 is about 288hp. That's a 33 hp difference. and that is already at least one cam size smaller.
By 1.0hp/cube things are heating up.This would be 318hp, and 360 hp. This is now a 42 hp difference and about 2 cam sizes.
By 1.2 hp per CID, things are getting complicated, and the 318@382hp,is probably past using pump-gas. Whereas the 360@430 hp is using aluminum heads and still burning pump gas. This level of output is more suited to occasional use, than to daily driving, altho the 360 will do it with a good tune.

But here's the thing; why build a 430 horse powerhouse to hit 65 and then shut her down? Whatever that 430 does in the zero to 60,on the street, can be very nearly duplicated with just about half as much power, by using TM,(Torque Multiplication). And the reason is those skinny 255s. Or any street-tire you can fit in the stock tubs. These are the performance choke.Spinning ain't winning.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/TechArticles/land_dyno.jpg
So in order for the smaller less powerful engine, to do that you just start with more rear gear, and more transmission gears. You just need to get the little engine up on the pipe and keep it there.
If it were possible to get your teener up to 250 hp by ten MPH, and carry that all the way to 60mph, with no tirespin, then you would average 250hp from 10 to 60 mph right?
But if you had a 430hp 360 with a 2600TC say, and 3.23s and a 2.45 low gear, and blasted off the line in a blaze of glory, what would your average horsepower be from 10 to 60? Well if you revved it to peak power say 5800rpm and held it at that rpm all the way, you would average 430 hp from 10 to 60mph right?
But which combo is gonna ET the quickest on those 255s, and how much faster will it be? and how much money did you have to spend to get that little margin?
Ok but this is all theory. How can you make a 318 jump to peak power, not spin, and stay there from 10 to 60mph? Well you can't and so we start with a 360 @288hp, an instant 38 hp increase at .8 hp/cube. And we throw in suspension and tire technology. And then we have to get more than 1 gear from zero to 60mph. And that leads to the first big hurdle; if we gear the car to use two gears to hit 60, then there's nothing left to cruise with.
So immediately we consider an overdrive,and, the cost goes up.
To keep the costs down, (cuz 5speed standards are really really expensive,you pretty much have to go automatic and overdrive.Or do what I did which was a GVOD. The A833od does not have suitable ratios to achieve this 2-gears to 60; the 1-2 split is just too wide. I tried this. I geared it with 4.30s to hit 60mph@5400 at the top of second.Perfect! The trouble came on the starting line.The 4.3 x 3.09 gives a starter gear of 13.29, which blows the tires away even as a 2bbl. And then your stuffing it into second a couple of car lengths out, and then the engine rpm gets sucked into the basement and it's a looooong pull to 60 in one gear. That was a waste of time experiment to me. I knew going in it was gonna be bad, I just never thought it was gonna be as bad as it was. With 4.30s the cruise rpm was 65=2465,which the engine liked.
So, what about an automatic?
Say you install an A-500 with ratios of 2.74-1.54-1.00-.69od I think that's what they are. With the .69od the max rear you might consider is 4.56, which would get you a 3.15 final-drive and 2540@65mph. Ok so what's that 4.56 get you in the zero to 60? Surprise,surprise, 60=5300 with 28s and 5% slip. Well hey that will work with a hot 318, but that's alotta cam in a 318.
How about a 360?
With a 360,this means we candrop a cam size or two,and back up in the rear gear. Lets work it out with 4.10s. And I get 60 =4950 Badaboom. This is about a 218 degree cam , so she'll make monster torque off the line with a matching compression ratio. And because of the 4.10s and the torquey cam, she won't want or need a hi-stall TC. OK but a 2800 would be so much fun. She is gonna burn so much rubber,lol.
So now we have a recipe;
A 360 with a 218/220 cam and matching compression
An A-500
4.10s in the back
and a 2800TC just for fun.
Some kind of traction aider
at least 275/60-15s @28" tall
So plug that into your desk-top dyno, and see what falls out.

Ok now back to the teener.
As to zero to 60;
The teener can pretty much do what the 360 can do; it just needs a bit more cam to peak at the same and MAYBE a bit more TC. Badaboom. The difference in ET from zero to 60 would be very small.
Now as to building this 318.
There is a tiny bit of a problem marrying the next bigger cam to the compression ratio. The next bigger cam is the 268 degree advertised, and it wants a 9.8 static compression ratio with iron heads.That calls for a total chamber volume of 75.3cc with a 662 swept. And therein lies the problem, trying to make the number, will get expensive. And why is that? Well the good gasket is 8.9cc and the eyebrows usually come in at 5cc and J-heads are about 72cc and pistons usually come quite far down in the hole and run 2cc to 12cc! cc. When you add all that up,with no machining, your total chamber volume will come in between 87.9 and 97.9, and that maths out to an Scr between 8.5 and 7.7...and that will make a really soggy take-off from zero mph. Really, to make that number (75.3ish), you need closed chamber heads and tall pistons, or spend a lot of cash on machining, and a lotta time on fitment.
So how about the 360?
Well now we can use a 262advertised cam,and we'll need an Scr of just 9.6, which with a swept now of 748.3, requires a total chamber volume of 87cc and as we have seen, that is easy.This is a zero-deck piston-install, 5cc in the eyebrows the .039 gasket at 8.9, and uncut large port iron LA heads at around 72/73cc, about as cheap a build as you can imagine. The only expense will be the zero decks. BUT we can even get around that. By skimming the heads a little and let the pistons fall where they may.
So that puts me all in favor of the 360, once again.
Like I said the 360 is a very versatile platform.
Now the big question;
Are you willing to go automatic? This is a cheap buy-in. And offers the most bang for the buck.
Oh I just gotta mention something else.
Imagine you're just tooling around at 30 mph, enjoying the music your pipes are making in second gear at say 2300rpm with those big 28s. And out of the blue the little guy on your shoulder says hit-it!! And you do. The tranny kicks down into first and the TC spools up and suddenly the engine explodes at 4000rpm, maybe just a little past peak-torque with that little cam; Ima guessing 300hp. Shazzam!! ,you are cooking!
Well, I'm just throwing this out there for your consideration.

 

[moparmat2000]

Sure an A500 is great for constency as is any automatic, but a clutch and a 4 gear is much more fun to me.

 

[Chained_360]

So it sounds like it'll be pretty safe behind my 360 once I go through it... and fun too! I'll wait on the machine shop until I have the tranny apart and can take the case there and have them look at it, but I'm guessing I probably won't have the funds to put a bushing in it. I don't have any pictures of the pin, that will have to wait until I have it apart all the way.

On a barely related note, I weighed it just out of curiosity. This thing is light! ~85 lbs with no fluid or bellhousing, and the aluminum bell is only 12 pounds. I'll have to compare it with my 904 once I'm actually doing the swap.

 

[AJ/FormS]

85 is what what mine scaled as well. The iron case weighs about what my GVOD weighs, so the total pkg was a net gain close to zero

When does your summer actually start/finish up there?

 

[moparmat2000]

Nice thing about the gear vendors is the weight added is at the *** end of the trans, pulling the CG closer to the center of the car. Instead of nose heavy. Ideal weight distribution is 50/50 split front rear, although its hard to achieve with a front engine car, its easier to work with understeer conditions than oversteer. Rear engined cars with a heaviee aft weight distribution have a tendency to oversteer. Cars like the corvair and early porsches with the boxer 6 had very nasty handling tendencies. Especially without a rear sway bar due to being too *** end heavy.