easy way to tell if i got a solid cam or hydraulic?

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340plot

340plot

the bushy bush
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is there a easy way to see whether i have a solid or hydraulic cam? it has the mopar peformance 1.5 rocker setup.

also, how close to the head can the pushrods be? mine are aweful close, if not touching.

i hear a rattle when running, and pulled the v.c, put the number one cylinder to where the valves were closed, and there was gobs of play.
 
instead of saying gobs of play ...how about getting a set of feeler gauges and measuring the lash...???
 
ok, when i say gobs of play, i can lift the rocker off of the valve top more than a 1/8 inch. i would have to put all the feller guage sizes togher to get an accurate number.lmao

so, i figured if i have a solid cam or whatever, i could tighten them all to the 1/4 turn.

i did this and had what sounded like little compression.
so then i backed them all of to "0" lash, and fired up. no more ticking, and now runs perfectly smooth.

so what is the point of using the roller rockers with what i am almost sure is a hydraulic cam?
 
340plot said:
ok, when i say gobs of play, i can lift the rocker off of the valve top more than a 1/8 inch. i would have to put all the feller guage sizes togher to get an accurate number.lmao

so, i figured if i have a solid cam or whatever, i could tighten them all to the 1/4 turn.

i did this and had what sounded like little compression.
so then i backed them all of to "0" lash, and fired up. no more ticking, and now runs perfectly smooth.

so what is the point of using the roller rockers with what i am almost sure is a hydraulic cam?
Click to expand...



Well……If I'm reading this correctly you set the valves wrong for a solid or hydraulic so you got them both covered.

:thumbup:
 
I simply do not understand how you came to this point in your life -- that is,

one day an engine fell out of the sky, and you said to yourself ??? solid or hydraulic.

LET'S SAY it IS a hydraulic cam, and DOES have hydraulic lifters

How did it get to the point that it has valve lash on (I guess you are saying) all the valves??

SOMEBODY had to adjust them this loose !!!

I think the only way you're gonna tell is either pull the intake manifold and yank out one or two or you might try ---

Take no1 ready to fire, stack feeler gauges in one of the valves until they are snug, then rotate the engine until that valve just starts to move a little, and tightens up the feelers, say, the valve moves 1/8" or so

NOW LEAVE IT ALONE over night. Come out in the morning and see if the lifter has leaked down, and the feeler stack is loose


340plot said:
i backed them all of to "0" lash,
Click to expand...

If you run them at zero lash, and it is a SOLID lifter cam, you'll soon be burning valves. The whole reason for valve lash on mechanical tappet cams is to allow for expansion at warm up, so the valves are not held open


340plot said:
so what is the point of using the roller rockers with what i am almost sure is a hydraulic cam?
Click to expand...

Roller or not rockers has nothing to do with whether the cam is hydraulic or solid lifters
 
This is easy to determine. Here is how you do it. Pull the driver's side valve cover. It really doesn't matter, but I like checking number one. Bring number one exhaust valve until it is closed and on the base circle of the cam good. Take the adjuster nut and tighten it down slowly about 1/2 turn at the time until it opens the exhaust valve by the adjuster. Let it sit there about 15-20 minutes. IF it has hydraulic lifters, this will bleed that one lifter down. After about 15-20 minutes, loosen that adjuster up all the way. You now should be able to depress the pushrod down into the lifter plunger and feel the lifter preload spring if it is hydraulic. If you cannot and it feels like it will not move at all, you have solid lifters. If you determine it has solid lifters, a good point of reference to begin with would be .016 on the intake and .018 on the exhaust.
 
........All u have to do is look down into a lifter from the top to see if there is a wire clip,snap ring or nothing but a deeper pushrod seat............kim.......
 
oldkimmer said:
........All u have to do is look down into a lifter from the top to see if there is a wire clip,snap ring or nothing but a deeper pushrod seat............kim.......
Click to expand...


Bingo! This is the easy way to do it. You'll probably have to pull the rockers and pushrods to do it, but at this point you should probably do that anyway. With an 1/8" of lash something in the valvetrain is bound to be bent or broken.

I guess now we know why the factories went to non-adjustable rocker set ups, keeps people that think they know what they're doing from breaking things.
 
it has the little snap ring at the top, so it is a hydraulic cam.

when i first did them, i set them 1/4 turn beyond "0" lash, spun it over by hand, and had no compression. so i figured that it was opening the valves too much.

i have them all set at "0" lash, and the engine runs perfect now.
 
340plot said:
it has the little snap ring at the top, so it is a hydraulic cam.

when i first did them, i set them 1/4 turn beyond "0" lash, spun it over by hand, and had no compression. so i figured that it was opening the valves too much.

i have them all set at "0" lash, and the engine runs perfect now.
Click to expand...


Hydraulic lifters should have pre-load. Setting them at "0" lash is not usually a good deal.

Most hydraulic lifters call for .020 to .060" of pre-load. Since most adjusters are 20 TPI, that means each full turn is .05". Some aren't though, so you should check the TPI on the adjusters. At any rate, a 1/4 to half turn of pre-load should be good for a performance cam, which tend to like less pre-load. That doesn't usually mean "0" pre-load, more like .020", which should be a little less than 1/2 a turn.

If you have no compression at a 1/4 turn of pre-load (which should only be like .0125"), either you're measuring incorrectly, you have a massive amount of cam overlap, or, as some have suspected, something is broken.
 
ok, nublu, i understand what you are saying.

let me say it this way, and then you tell me where i am thinking wrong.lol

if a engine is bone stock, comming right out of another car, and i buy just a set of of mp roller rockers.

when i go to put them on the engine, what is the lash supposed to be set at?
 
StrokerScamp said:
This is easy to determine. Here is how you do it. Pull the driver's side valve cover. It really doesn't matter, but I like checking number one. Bring number one exhaust valve until it is closed and on the base circle of the cam good. Take the adjuster nut and tighten it down slowly about 1/2 turn at the time until it opens the exhaust valve by the adjuster. Let it sit there about 15-20 minutes. IF it has hydraulic lifters, this will bleed that one lifter down. After about 15-20 minutes, loosen that adjuster up all the way. You now should be able to depress the pushrod down into the lifter plunger and feel the lifter preload spring if it is hydraulic. If you cannot and it feels like it will not move at all, you have solid lifters. If you determine it has solid lifters, a good point of reference to begin with would be .016 on the intake and .018 on the exhaust.
Click to expand...

Perfect procedure!:headbang: Takes an ex mechanic to tell it right. Now git in the shop and fix it,lol!
 
ok, so if they are solid, what is the lash to be set at?
 
That depends on the specific Cam that you have.

My engine was built by someone else and they used a Direct connection RV cam (so not very agressive at all) It didn't come with a cam card so i had no idea what the proper settings would be. Currently it has 0.16 on the intake and i think 0.22 on the exhaust if i remember correctly. Best bet would be to see if you can find out exactly what cam is in your engine and then search for the lash settings online.
 
If it's hydraulic, you should be able with some pressure compress the lifter. If it's solid you might as well pull the cam out so you will know what the grinder wants the valve lash set at. Most new cams are tight lash, but who knows what cam it is. Send a picture of what you got may help.
 
340plot said:
ok, so if they are solid, what is the lash to be set at?
Click to expand...

If you think it's a solid cam, start small at like .016" and .018". If it runs like the timing is retarded, open it up to maybe .018" and .020". People have been varying valve lash on both solid AND hydraulic lifters for YEARS to get different results. There's no hard and fast rule that says you have to even run what the cam card says. Since every engine is different, they will likely give optimal power with different lash settings, so people have fooled around with it for decades. Just find where it runs good and leave it alone. Anybody says any different ain't doin nuthin but flappin their gums.

Oh....and some solid lifters DO have that little clip or wire, so that's not always the best way to tell. Read this:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0505_camshaft_basics/photo_06.html
 
ok, here is some pictures of a lifter.

i pulled every single lifter, and all in perfect shape. light down in the block shows that the cam in in perfect condition. checked every pushrod, and all roll perfect on a peice of glass............................ now tell me if i am wrong. the lifter do not have a spot for oil to enter that i can see. so i say this is a solid lifter..?

now, with all this info, what should i set the lash at?

if you tell me 1/4 turn, then i will tell you that at 1/4 turn, the valves are open some, resulting in the engine having no compression. i know this because once i set them at 0 then 1/4 turn, i can spin the engine over with all plugs in by hand.
 

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