Disc Brakes on Early A's - What solution did you choose and why?

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Kmrumedy

Kmrumedy

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I know this has been asked before but technology is always changing and improving. I may not be aware of the latest and greatest so I thought I would ask.

Doing a front disc brake upgrade this winter to my 64 Valiant. I keep flip flopping between Scarebird, Wilwood kit, 73-76 BBP conversion, etc.

For those of you that upgrade your brake system...

Which system did you choose? Why? Would you do it differently today?

I want to do this once! Front disc brakes only. Budget doesn't really matter. Good quality, great stopping and ease of installation are my criteria.

Opinions please. What's new out there? Thank you.
 
I used the Scarebird brackets. I chose them for the price. They came with a list of all other parts that you need with part #'s for NAPA. The brackets are very nice quality. The only modifications I had to make was to move the clip that holds the end of the rubber brake hose from the back to the front. I also had my hubs re-drilled for the BBP. Any good machine shop should be able to do that. Installation was a snap.
Tom
 
I used stock '73-'76 A body disc brakes and upper control arms. With a '74 Charger manual disc master cylinder added to the mix, I had the same brakes that were on my '74 Charger in a much lighter '66 Valiant. Everything was a straight bolt on. Parts are plentiful and will be available for quite a while since these brakes were used on almost every RWD Mopar produced through the 80s. Thought about the Scarebird kit and even went so far as to buy a set of spare hubs, but couldn't force myself to put Blowtie parts on my Mopar...
 
With the later parts it uses ball joints that are much beefer then small bolt pattern ball joints. You might have to move to a 15 inch rims for clearance.
 
One '66 Valiant I had came with the Kelsey-Hayes discs and I really liked them.
If I was going to change I would consider the big bolt pattern to put on 15 " wheels cause it is getting more and more difficult to find 14" tires.
 
I have the Kelsey Hayes set up and like it really well. I even have a spare set just in case I end up with another car that I want to put them on. If I ever decide to go to big bolt, I would do the Mustang rotor modification.
 
On my first 66 Dart, I stayed with 10" drums. At the time, I had no source for parts and no budget. The car was a cherry looking 270 ht, 273-2, 3 on-the-tree. Putting on the needed 14" wheels would have screwed up the looks of the car. With arm strong steering and the tranny, the car did not lend itself for spirited motoring. Ultimate brake power would have been wasted on the car. I was careful to drag the brakes when I drove through high water to keep from having to dry them out when the situation was less than ideal.

The other was a 66 Dart GT, 273-4, 904, PS, disk brakes. Since it came from the factory with disk brakes, the only things I did was replace the rear brake hose, turn the rotors, and rebuild the master cylinder. Again, the brakes would lock up easily until I could replace the 4½" wide wheels with 5½" allowing 205/70-14 tires to be properly fitted to the car. Neither car had power brakes. IMO it would have been a waste to install it.

I like the firm, linear feel of non-assisted brakes. I also like consistency of brakes that a vacuum assist can not provide in all circumstances. Mopar put plenty of master cylinder and hydraulic pressure to handle the brakes they put on the car for all but the most extreme environments. I think this is true of both the four and single piston disk systems.

If I had not sold the first Dart, I planned to put a 4-speed in it. At that point, I probably would have gone for BBP single piston disk brakes. This is what I did with my drum brake equipped 72 Demon V-8 and 73 Dart Custom. I did this in both cases because I wanted to fit a larger wheel than the factory offered at the time as well as the improved braking.

For me, it cost less to keep my cars all Mopar rather than going to a non-OEM supplier like Wilwood. I also considered how I would manage repairs later on when I could not do the job myself. It seemed to me to be easier to say that it has the brakes out of a 75 Dart rather than say it has a Wilwood conversion. A technician can go to a parts book or site and readily find pads for a 75 Dart. I can't say that for a non-OEM supplier. Whose pad did they use? Does the pad need to be altered to fit this application? Just something to think about.
 
After trying all the OEM solutions, I went with the 65-72 Kelsey Hays front discs and the 8 3/4 rear with original drum brakes. I run a factory manual dual master cylinder with stainless steel hard lines. I like the small bolt pattern and left handed studs. I have them on the 66 273 4 speed OD Formula S and a 68 383 automatic Formula S. I have 15 x 7 Rallyes on the 68 and 15 x6 Minilites on the 66 both wheelsets have the factory offset and sit in the center of the wheel well. I run Hawk racing pads and am quite happy. It looks like you can get slotted drilled rotors from Rock Auto now, I guess I'll have to upgrade. Both cars are driven, they are not Hanger Queens, and I love corners. Like 2 Darts, they are original and I don't have to mix and match parts or try to figure what to ask for at the parts counter. I did not like having big bolt pattern discs on the front and small pattern on the rear. 1 spare takes up enough room.
 
When I put the disc setup from the 85 Fifth Ave on my Dart I was running 14" Magnum 500 wheels with no issues.
 
on my 64 valiant back in the day and all my drum brake abodies since i have gone to the stock style 73-up disc brake set ups.. they stop well and are still easy to find and buy... can't buy a complete set up for $50 anymore but still not horribly expensive.

i wanted the larger ball joints ans the large bolt pattern wheels.

also its nice that the factory parts are fast and easy to get.. if i need say a caliper i can go to any local auto parts store and at worst case have it the next day... a wilwood part may take longer to get.. scaredbird being common parts you should be able to get right away too bt i prefer the large bolt pattern..

i seriously considered the scarebird set up for jamies dart... i figured that it would be a quick way to get disc brakes on the car for her and she would be more comfortable with disc and drive the car more... in the end i went large bolt pattern 73-up stuff for a couple reasons.. 1) had a set laying around that just needed rebuilding. 2) had a 8 3/4 that was already big bolt pattern laying around that i was surely going to put in the dart sooner or later 3) i like the bigger and beefier spindle and ball joints that the 73-up disc brakes use 4) i like the options of wheels you get with large bolt pattern wheels.. yes i am just putting a set of body painted wheels on the car but you never know if we want to change that up down the road... for me it just made a lot more sense to go with the 73-up factory disc brakes...
 
I did my front end on my 10" drum 65 about 10 years ago and put next to no miles on since then when I got a 67 brake setup minus LCA's. The disc LCA is a 9/16 bolt while the drum is a 1/2 so I just drilled out the bolt hole and changed M/C's to a 67 drum/disc and used a combo valve off a RWD Mopar. Fittings into combo valve were different but a few $1 adapters worked fine. Everything bolted in like OEM. Im stuck with a 5 on 4 pattern all around but 14's are still out there (every mini truck used them in the 80's) and Centerline makes 15's on 4 with more boutique wheel vendors making the 5 on 4 option available. I would not do it any other way but to use 100% 67+ parts next time. Its a great 4 piston caliper with parts still on the shelf.
 
Great stuff guys.

I should have mentioned I have BB pattern 15in wheels currently with drums.
 
i did the scarebird conversion on my 65 valiant. SBP 14" steelies. the brackets came with a shopping list that i took to napa and got everything i needed. the swap was fairly easy after some adjustments, i've got good stopping power. all together i think it cost about 250$. had to press out my wheel studs, do some grinding on the calipers, and re-plium from my new master cylinder but in the end i've got much more effective brakes that the original drums.
 
66fs said:
How did you get BBP drums on a 65 Cuda? Try Carbon Metallic brake shoes for drum brakes from Firm Feel?
Click to expand...

I don't have a 65 Cuda. It is a modified 64 Valiant. Here is the car.



Brakes... Re-drilled drums with long studs

image_zps5f27b8cd.jpg


image_zpsfed62df6.jpg


image_zpsa64e0ab1.jpg


Wheels are 15 inch Weld Racing

image_zps1fc6051e.jpg
 
abodyjoe said:
Easy. Just use the 73-up upper control arms and a b or ebody spindle and drum brake set up.
Click to expand...

Perfect. Thank you. I just bought a set of spindles from a member here in great shape. Don't you mean disc brake set up?

 
Kmrumedy said:
Perfect. Thank you. I just bought a set of spindles from a member here in great shape. Don't you mean disc brake set up?

Click to expand...

no, i meant drums. the guy asked how to get big bolt drums on an abody.. thats how ya do it.. do the same for 73-up disc too... need the 73-up lower ball joint too..
 
66fs said:
I guess that would do it, but why?
Click to expand...

well in the case of a friend that did it.. he changed his road runner to disc brakes and wanted to upgrade the 9" brakes on his scamp... it was cheaper for him to use the big drums on his scamp then buying another set of discs.. they worked well on his car..
 
abodyjoe said:
well in the case of a friend that did it.. he changed his road runner to disc brakes and wanted to upgrade the 9" brakes on his scamp... it was cheaper for him to use the big drums on his scamp then buying another set of discs.. they worked well on his car..
Click to expand...

That sounds quite reasonable. I've never driven a car with 9 inch drums, but 10 in drums seemed to stop fine to me, especially on an "A" body.
 
our dart had 10" drums. all new hardware,wheel cyl and hoses.. always stopped straight and ok i thought. at highway speeds it was a different story.. the first time ya hit them at 70mph they were ok. but the second and third time not so good.. just changed to disc brakes up front and 11" drums in the rear and the difference is amazing. stops a lot better.. hard to even explain how much better it stops now..
 
Late-A disks in front, 8-3/4 with 10" drums in back, with a '79 Aspen master cylinder, and even without power brakes, it's like throwing out an anchor when I brake hard in my '64 Valiant convertible.
 
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