I have a 360 with 400hp in my 70 Duster with AC and auto trans. I have a 22" 2 row aluminum radiator with a flex fan and 2x7" electric fans in front of the AC heat exchanger and a 160 thermostat. It has an aluminum water pump. In cool weather it stays cool but when it hits 90 it won't stay cool in traffic with the AC on and hits 195 to 200 even with the AC off. Any ideas? I have a 1968 Sport Fury with a stroked big block with 600hp and the same radiator and fan set up and it never gets over 170.
LA block 360 won't stay cool
- Thread starter tchrislip
- Start date
-
mguner
How many is too many?
You need a hotter t-stat. Try a 195 and see how that works for you. That helps keep pressure in the heads and get more heat exchanged in the radiator.
Get a good mechanical 7 blade fan. Use the proper shroud.
Electric fans are not as efficient as mechanical ones.
Electric fans are not as efficient as mechanical ones.
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
Have a flex fan on it as well as the 2 electrics and have tried the original clutch fan as well and it doesn't make any difference. Also have an original type shroud from Mancini Racing. Thanks for the feedback.
You are certainly moving enough air with all those fans so my guess is you don't have enough radiator. Also the 160 thermostat is ridiculous. Coolest I would run is a 180. The factory used a 195 in most cases. That won't affect the maximum temperature, though. You need more heat dissipation and that equals more (or better) radiator.
Also too, NO ONE has ANY excuse NOT to have an infra red heat gun. Harbor Freight sells them CHEAP. IMO, they are a necessary tool for cooling system diagnosis.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Gotta agree with this (especially the radiator part)
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Actually, 195 to 200 is not all that bad. If the OP wants the temp to stay down in the 170* range, he would need roughly a 25-30% bigger radiator. But temps that low typically don't do well for the engine.
I'm going to try a 195 thermostat.
Thanks, I'll let you know how the new thermostat works.
Tried that and no difference. Both thermometer in radiator and heat gun show temps of 195 - 200 for the 360 and 170 for the big block.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Well, just know that a hotter t-stat won't make the engine run cooler; it will run slightly hotter when under load or idling in traffic, and significantly higher that 170 when under light loads like cruising.
The t'stat set the minimum running temp in light heat loading situations (like cruising at 55 mph). The system's cooling capacity sets the high temp in high heat loading situations (like hard running) or poor airflow situations (like idling in traffic with 90F airtemps), and that has to do with rad size, how the airflow to/through the rad is managed, and fans.
mguner
How many is too many?
Actually there is a situation that would allow the "hotter" T-stat to make your engine run cooler. If the current T-stat opens prematurely and relieves the pressure in the heads allowing steam pockets to form, the "cooler" T-stat may not be so cool.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
Use the heat gun to measure temps at the radiator's metal inlet and outlet. Temp difference should be min. 40*, - 50*+ is better.
Check the temp difference on the Fury's inlet/outlets, when it's hot for comparison..
cheers
Check the temp difference on the Fury's inlet/outlets, when it's hot for comparison..
cheers
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
No, but those temps are great for knowing the radiator can do it, then the thermostat can handle keeping it higher.
I'd feel a lot better about the engine and the temps in hot weather if it wasn't always right on the edge under normal every day conditions.
Pop a 3 row core in that baby and then it'll be reliable anywhere as far as cooling goes.
My O anyway.
Thanks for all the comments. I had a 3 row 5/8" copper in it and it acted the same way as the 2 row 1" aluminum. I'll check the inlet and outlet temps and see what that tells me.No, but those temps are great for knowing the radiator can do it, then the thermostat can handle keeping it higher.
I'd feel a lot better about the engine and the temps in hot weather if it wasn't always right on the edge under normal every day conditions.
Pop a 3 row core in that baby and then it'll be reliable anywhere as far as cooling goes.
My O anyway.
Prove it. Which mechanical fan? Which electric fan? Are the blades designed the same? What speed is the fan spinning at? How much surface area? What fan controller? Which fan clutch? You can't show that every mechanical fan is more efficient than every electric fan, because it's not true.
The biggest advantage to an electric fan is the accuracy with which you can control it. That has a huge effect on efficiency, you only run the fan when you need it. Mechanical fans are stuck with a fluid or thermostatic coupling of one type or another, and they simply aren't that accurate. Which means at some point you're spinning the fan when you don't need it, or not spinning it when it might help. Further, the fan blades aren't spinning at a constant speed, which has a huge effect on fan blade design and air flow.
There's A LOT more to it than the power required to spin the alternator and the electric efficiency of the fan. Can a mechanical fan be more efficient than an electric one? Sure. Can an electric fan be more efficient than a mechanical fan? Yup. It depends on the fans being compared and how they're being controlled, and there is a wide range of quality for both electric fans and fan controllers.
And really, efficiency isn't the most important part. Effectiveness is, and with a good fan controller an electric fan can be just as, if not more, effective than a mechanical one.
Ask anyone that's been in automotive cooling or climate control. Well known fact.
Well anyone in the thermodynamics, aeronautics or physics industries would tell you you're wrong. It's not an absolute. If it was, Hellcat's wouldn't run electric fans. And yet, they do. Think it's cheaper to design an electric fan system, program the controls, and provide the electrical capacity than it is to bolt on a mechanical fan? Well, it's not. So it's not because of the production costs.
Any time a mechanical fan spins that an electric fan wouldn't is 100% waste. Sure, when the mechanical fan and electric fan are both spinning you might have an advantage in efficiency. But you might not, because the speed at which the mechanical fan is spinning might not be it's most efficient speed. And then there's the fact that you're always spinning the alternator already. Yes, there's more resistance when the alternator is at max output, but now you have to know the average resistance and efficiency of the alternator when the fan is running compared to when it's not. Then consider that the electric fans can be set to control the engine temperature to a narrower window, where the engine itself is more efficient.
And we haven't even gotten to running multiple electric fans to improve surface area coverage. Sure, there's a penalty for having two motors, but now they can be smaller and draw less, so less drag from the alternator etc.
And I could waste my time picking a specific example and doing a thermodynamic efficiency analysis on it, because I've done them before. But it still wouldn't tell you which one actually worked better on the road. I can though, I ran multiple different mechanical fans on my Duster. My dual electric fan set up from a Ford Contour works better than all of them. Is it more efficient? Don't care. My car has never gotten hotter than 205*. If it did, the high speed on my fans would kick in. They never have, and I've driven in traffic when it's 110* out. It was much harder on me than my car (no A/C).
Believe what/who you want. In some cases a mechanical fan will work great, and they're stupid simple and easy. But in some applications an electric fan is a much better choice. Just the facts.
Last edited:
If you SPEND THE MONEY on an electric fan you can get one that will MOVE HELL outta some air. Thing is, most people try to cheap the hell out after they spend 3K plus dollars on their engine and get a shitty electric fan. That's where some of their bad rap comes from.
That said, I still prefer a good old Mopar Performance viscous fan myself. I guess I am just an old fart and that's ok too.
That said, I still prefer a good old Mopar Performance viscous fan myself. I guess I am just an old fart and that's ok too.
I have a be-cool rad. nstalled in my car when the motor went in. It has their module kit for the radiator which included the fans.
The car has always ran hot. 220-240. I fought this for about 2 yrs. I tried everything but a new rad. What could go wrong with a new aluminum radiator?
One day I was getting out of the car with the hood open and the fans running. As in the past with the Factory rad. and a B&M stick on elec. fan when I got out. It would blow my hat off
I noticed now it don't even blow my hair at all so I investigate.
I first thought that the fan was spinning backward as I have seen in the past . Close the hood and drive it gets hot. open the hood and it cools down. GM truck had a serpentine fan on a v belt system. The fans are angled opposite .
I have an electric water pump and twin High H.P fans. I should have noticed my problem when I would pull over to let it cool down on the way to a local car show. But dumb me I didn't think of it until after .
You see, I would turn the fans on and the electric pump without the engine running. It would take a long time to cool down.
Well after not feeling the air blowing I found the problem. The rad tubes were not flat through the center of the rad. They are round. Blocking the air flow!. Somewhere in this rads life it either frooze or it was pressurized for leaks with to much pressure.
It could have been the latter of the two because I had the threaded bungs welded in when I got it. But it did come out of a race car that was sitting with water in it that had the core plugs pushed out.
None the less I bought a new rad $900 because I have everything in the car settup for that be-cool rad. You can actually see light through the new radiator.
Now I just have to get my kid to install it. with a bunch of other things that need to be done to it.
The car has always ran hot. 220-240. I fought this for about 2 yrs. I tried everything but a new rad. What could go wrong with a new aluminum radiator?
One day I was getting out of the car with the hood open and the fans running. As in the past with the Factory rad. and a B&M stick on elec. fan when I got out. It would blow my hat off
I noticed now it don't even blow my hair at all so I investigate.
I first thought that the fan was spinning backward as I have seen in the past . Close the hood and drive it gets hot. open the hood and it cools down. GM truck had a serpentine fan on a v belt system. The fans are angled opposite .
I have an electric water pump and twin High H.P fans. I should have noticed my problem when I would pull over to let it cool down on the way to a local car show. But dumb me I didn't think of it until after .
You see, I would turn the fans on and the electric pump without the engine running. It would take a long time to cool down.
Well after not feeling the air blowing I found the problem. The rad tubes were not flat through the center of the rad. They are round. Blocking the air flow!. Somewhere in this rads life it either frooze or it was pressurized for leaks with to much pressure.
It could have been the latter of the two because I had the threaded bungs welded in when I got it. But it did come out of a race car that was sitting with water in it that had the core plugs pushed out.
None the less I bought a new rad $900 because I have everything in the car settup for that be-cool rad. You can actually see light through the new radiator.
Now I just have to get my kid to install it. with a bunch of other things that need to be done to it.
-
