Stalls in Gear, Automatic- Restarts Good- Can Slam it into Gear! EEEK

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yellow rose said:
Not to be redundant, but you could have pulled the gearbox, installed a new converter and been down to the drive through several times by now.

Your converter is JUNK. GARBAGE. TRASH. CRAPOLA. HASHED. GASSED. SHOT. ****. USED UP. WASTED. SMOKED. POKED. STROKED.

Stop looking for a pulse. The cadaver is grey and rigor mortis is full on stiff. No CPR will help, neither will mouth to mouth.

Say a quick prayer to the god of ATF and busted knuckles and get it out of there.

Me, I'd take that converter to the range and shoot it until it was no more. But that's just me. Or I'd smash it with my BFH until it was just a pile of shred.

Hope you stop this insanity soon and fix your car.
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holy **** your funny. well, id have to do in the driveway or take it to a garage. either presents some challenges. I get it, **** or get off the pot
 
Ferdinandbites said:
holy **** your funny. well, id have to do in the driveway or take it to a garage. either presents some challenges. I get it, **** or get off the pot
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Well that sux for you. I never said, hey, I'd be pulling that thing because it's so much fun. I wouldn't lie to you. It sucks if you have a lift and all the tools. They only way it won't suck is if you pay someone to do it. Or better yet, you can get a neighbor kid to do it for an ice cream cone.

I love ice cream cones.
 
yellow rose said:
Well that sux for you. I never said, hey, I'd be pulling that thing because it's so much fun. I wouldn't lie to you. It sucks if you have a lift and all the tools. They only way it won't suck is if you pay someone to do it. Or better yet, you can get a neighbor kid to do it for an ice cream cone.

I love ice cream cones.
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lol! I wonder if the converter can come out the lower inspection plate? u think theres a can of transmission that can fix this? aftermarket flux capacitor to move the inner stator? u think if I keep the throttle at 3000 rpms to keep it running it will go down the road ok? going to ask for a miracle now, any millionairs out there that want to throw some petty cash my way for ***** and giggles to confirm if the converter if the problem? wait, lets get a pool going, wait no, that's probably forbidden on this form, damn, it was a good idea for a sec.
 
Ferdinandbites said:
lol! I wonder if the converter can come out the lower inspection plate? u think theres a can of transmission that can fix this? aftermarket flux capacitor to move the inner stator? u think if I keep the throttle at 3000 rpms to keep it running it will go down the road ok? going to ask for a miracle now, any millionairs out there that want to throw some petty cash my way for ***** and giggles to confirm if the converter if the problem? wait, lets get a pool going, wait no, that's probably forbidden on this form, damn, it was a good idea for a sec.
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You gotta find the dumb kid in your neighborhood that likes cars and ice cream. Better if you can find two friends as they can get it done faster. Doubles theice cream though.
 
Now you need to get yourself ready for the possible pile of busted up contamination in the trans from that converter.
If there is any light colored nuggets (beat up aluminum or steel) in the pan it'll have to be at the very least torn down and cleaned out before that junk eats it alive if it hasn't already.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Check that pan for junk and post a pic so we can determine damage or contamination possibilities.

And to the how you can drive it question, if you bypass the neutral safety switch and fire the engine up with the trans already in gear it would probably drive but don't even think about it. :D

On the upside you could do what I did when my trans decided enough was enough.
I found that the repair parts and rebuild kit for the 904 was almost exactly what a working OD trans out of the U pull it yard and a Transgo stage 2 shift kit costs.
A little labor and a custom built trans mount later and you could have an OD trans in that thing.
The yard charged me 150 for a guaranteed working 42RH trans with converter and that is about 1/4 of an average good deal from a rebuilder for the 904.
 
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Well, I think I can devise a proof-test for you. A teener should idle down to 500 or so right? And 500 with 2.76s say and 24 inch tires and a 904 makes about 5.3mph.
All you have to do is put the idle speed back to about 600/650. Point the car down the road, rev it up and dump it into gear and get the car moving. Drive it up to some speed over 5.3 mph, say 15 mph, which would be 1500rpm. Then lift off the gas pedal and slow the car with the brake pedal to about 8mph.Release the brake.
With a good working TC, the car would continue to slow to a stop and the engine would remain running.
If the TC is locked, the engine should continue to run, and the car should continue to move, until somewhere near 5.3 mph/500 rpm, at which point, the car will no longer slow, as the TC is not gonna slip. If at this point you reapply the brake, very soon the engine will not produce enough power and stall. Diagnoses complete.
Your results will vary if I guessed wrong on the tire size or gear ratio.
 
Darthomas said:
The dist should turn along with crank rotation back and forth with only a small dead-band with no motion.
If theres enough slop in the chain, you probably jumped the chain one tooth.
It's now retarded and the engine cannot make enough vacuum to sustain idle at normal speeds. Another clue would be how fast it cranks. If it doesn't sound like the starter is doing the hard work of compression when the engine's hot, but spins the motor fast, that's another reason to suspect the chain jumped and your timing is retarded.
One more question, when you do drive it and let it run up rpm under hard acceleration, did the upper rpm performance seem "improved"?
That also happens if you jump one tooth.
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I GOT IT I GOT IT. You were along with many other people were right it was timing. Holy Jesus . I can't believe this one got the best of me. Thins thing ran so crapy that it was all over the place for rpms. Changed this adjusted that. I put the old carb gasket back on no difference. I put the mechanical fuel pump no difference. I changed the oil thinking the fuel soaked oil was possibly causing a lifter timing issue no difference. So I checked if chain jumped as someone said by putting a marker mark on the number 1 cylinder wire on cap, then on cap then on distr. then opened and looked at rotor as turning crank and marks were bang on. So though I should try again check timing. Thing cramped out as soon as I removed vacuum to distributor. So undid bolt and advanced timing, moved counter clockwise, and the engine started, wow. Then put light on and it showed at least, well it was so far out I couldn't even see it. Had to have been 20-25 degrees plus because I had to turn it so far just to start it. Anyway adjusted to about 12 degrees now. Tightened the distrib bold put vacuum line back on distrib and went inside to try it in gear, boooooooom the thing doesn't stall now. IT IS NOT THE TORQUE CONVERTER, it was, it really was the timing. Mind you it does run rough now. But i feel this is going in the right direction now. So u r in a way right it was so retarded it was causing issues while not entirely a vacuum issue but holding those Pistons back especially with a load. Can u imagine me taking that converter out right now. Damn my wish came true guys thanks so much. I'm gonna have to need a little more help though with this weirdly running rough engine. And talking this through with you guys has helped me keep my sanity. It's like a misfire but I can't seem to locate it to a particular cylinder. I'm happier than a pig in shet right now. Won't talk anymore about the other issue. Thanks so much again to all.
 
I didn't read all this but we had the same problem with a 1978 225 Volare that had a loose/worn-out timing chain AND bad distributor. The timing was so out of whack the motor didn't have enough torque to engage the transmission. Toodaloo!
 
greymouser7 said:
I didn't read all this but we had the same problem with a 1978 225 Volare that had a loose/worn-out timing chain AND bad distributor. The timing was so out of whack the motor didn't have enough torque to engage the transmission. Toodaloo!
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Phreakish said:
It's possible the chain jumped, but you'd likely have other symptoms. Even if it did jump, fixing the timing and fuel delivery will make it easier to diagnose that.

You've replaced all the small bits, and the transmission is probably OK. That means the most likely culprit is in the timing or fuel delivery, and these are easy to work on.

Timing can be all over the place and 'run just fine'. Hell, it could be 5 degrees ATDC and with the mechanical advance coming in at higher revs it will drive pretty OK but run like poo at low revs.

Timing can also have an effect on the way things burn in the engine, and cause an exhaust stench that will cause watery eyes and smelly garages. 7psi is high, but if it fires right back up then it may not be flooded. It will be tough to tell without either an oxygen sensor setup, or the timing set correctly. See where this is headed? Timing first.

Use the piston stop to verify where the timing mark points on the balancer. Assume nothing. Searching will yield a lot of info - use the stop in both directions. Meaning turn the engine on way up against the stop, then the other. TDC will be between the two resulting marks.

Then it's simply a matter of doing what 67Dart273 said up in post #8

Also, make sure all your changes are made/done on a warm engine. Small changes are OK when cold, especially as far as timing goes. But any mixture changes, and final idle settings should occur on a FULLY warmed engine, which means 170+ degrees, better if it's at the thermostat temperature range (190+).
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Well,u,were,right timing way off. Runs in gear now. Timing set at 12 btdc. It runs like poo though . To,keep it running the idle mixture screw is turned all the way in. So much power when taking off too. Before it would miss real bad under acceleration. Now I can squeal the tires. Sweet. But it's like it has a missing cylinder. I can't locate it.
 
73AbodEE said:
I knew it wasn't the friggin converter lmao
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And you were right.:D
I'm glad I was in a way wrong for his sake.
Remember back where I said if the engine runs "mint" like he said then it's the converter, and if it's not the converter then the engine doesn't run "mint"?
Ok then, I'll shut up now. :D
 
Iol Greg , I've just never had a bad converter act like that on me , not to say that it doesn't happen
 
TrailBeast said:
And you were right.:D
I'm glad I was in a way wrong for his sake.
Remember back where I said if the engine runs "mint" like he said then it's the converter, and if it's not the converter then the engine doesn't run "mint"?
Ok then, I'll shut up now. :D[/QUOTE


That whole "mint" deal is what made me want ice cream.

I guess maybe we need to define what a MINT running machine really is.

Almost time for some ICE CREAM...I HAVE SOME ICE CREAM....

That was for those of you who remember Eddie Murphy in either Raw or Delerious, I forget which.
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Had a converter that was quiet when under low load, but buzzed when climbing a hill.
Was in St Louis and had a 5 hour drive home. It was sucking air somehow and aereating the fluid. OK on the road, but when I needed to stop I had to wait 10 minutes for the bubbles to come out of the fluid before I could get enough pressure to engage clutches.
Got home OK and changed it.
Looked normal.

Hope you find the misfire.
 
This is why it's so important to assume nothing and double check the simple stuff.

Must be the belt squeaking when it dies..

Change the oil if it's fuel soaked, ASAP. Then do a compression test to see if there's any impact from full washing the cylinder walls.

Check your vacuum again and see where it is.

If you have the idle mix screws in all the way to keep it running, it's probably pulling fuel from somewhere it shouldn't be. You mentioned raising the rods before - put all the carb parts back to stock/factory as-rebuilt configuration and work from there.

Also check fuel pressure with the mechanical pump.
 
Darthomas said:
Had a converter that was quiet when under low load, but buzzed when climbing a hill.
Was in St Louis and had a 5 hour drive home. It was sucking air somehow and aereating the fluid. OK on the road, but when I needed to stop I had to wait 10 minutes for the bubbles to come out of the fluid before I could get enough pressure to engage clutches.
Got home OK and changed it.
Looked normal.

Hope you find the misfire.
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This is tricky stuff for sure.
Trying to find it. I think fuel is a problem. Unless the idle is turned way high it will stall when coming to a stop. Start right back up. But when high the fuel looks like it's dripping drown. Turn idle low almost stops dripping.
 
Phreakish said:
This is why it's so important to assume nothing and double check the simple stuff.

Must be the belt squeaking when it dies..

Change the oil if it's fuel soaked, ASAP. Then do a compression test to see if there's any impact from full washing the cylinder walls.

Check your vacuum again and see where it is.

If you have the idle mix screws in all the way to keep it running, it's probably pulling fuel from somewhere it shouldn't be. You mentioned raising the rods before - put all the carb parts back to stock/factory as-rebuilt configuration and work from there.

Also check fuel pressure with the mechanical pump.
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Not belt brakes.
Replaced oil yesterday no difference.
Compression solid 145
Vacuum now at 15
Idle screws 1.5 out stalls all the way in. Metering rods all out to keep running! Rods at stock stalls engine in idle. That bad.
I will check fuel pressure now with mechanical pump next then. Didn't seem to make difference with mechanical up from.
Read some blog and said to check total timing at 36 degrees 3500 rpms, what u think Bout that? Maybe getting advance involved. Tried it could even see mark. May have have to start turning distributor.
 
Just for ***** and giggles pull the idle mixture screws all the way out, clean them real good and if you have a compressor blow some air in the idle screw holes there might be some trash in the idle circuit.

Jeff
 
jeffnmo said:
Just for ***** and giggles pull the idle mixture screws all the way out, clean them real good and if you have a compressor blow some air in the idle screw holes there might be some trash in the idle circuit.

Jeff
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You know something that's a great idea mainly because when I rebuilt the carb I never pulled them out to even look at them annnnnnndddd I noticed when I was trying to adjust the idle screws I noticed the one on the left was smaller than the right which seemed odd. The left side the small screw seems to drip more fuel than the right often dripping and the right side not. I know they do have a shuttle effect on the idle but it seems like the same amount of turns out say 1.5 makes the left side protrude more than the right. Oh and I never obviously blew them out during the rebuild. You might very well be in to something here.
Thank you kindly I'll give it a shot.
 
jeffnmo said:
Just for ***** and giggles pull the idle mixture screws all the way out, clean them real good and if you have a compressor blow some air in the idle screw holes there might be some trash in the idle circuit.

Jeff
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Haha ya no difference. Great idea. It was the head of the screw that was slightly smaller but overall identical. Looked clean and nothing seemed restricted while blowing out. Too bad so sad. Thing is if I turn the idle down now it's at 12 degrees I can't keep it running at idle. If I retard the timing back to much higher say 20 plus, at idle, it runs good but I can't keep engine running in gear. When I first looked at the pick up it was touching the reluctor, some shinny spots in it so I adjusted just enough to no longer touch. The pick up measured good between spec 250. U think a pick up can be intermittently back, on off working although it will show fine not running? That spark seems irradic. Can locate this stumble to any particular cylinder. Pull a wire off and I can't even tell a difference with any cylinder.
But she runs mint, ha ha no it doesn't. You guys are all turning over laughing right now. No, wait, it runs like it needs ice cream!
 
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