Stalls in Gear, Automatic- Restarts Good- Can Slam it into Gear! EEEK

[Ferdinandbites]

If you are having to pull the metering rods out of the jets to get rich enough mixture for idle there is a serious issue with the idle circuits. Either a restriction or a baseplate gasket to body mismatch. If the boosters are starting to spill over at fast idle then the float level may be a little high as well but until you find out why fuel is not flowing through the idle circuits properly you can't really diagnose any other issues with the carb.

The carb kit specs showed 1/4 for the float level u think that's good? U think I should adjust 1/8 and see what happens? Paid 50 bucks for what I think is a fairly good kit. Kinda disappoint that the baseplate gasket proper size wasn't in it.
I put original baseplate back no difference.
Fuel is flowing through 5 psi now with original mechanical pump.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Well it was worth a try, hope ya get it running soon.

Jeff

Thank you kindly.

 

[Darthomas]

No ridges in tips of the idle mixture screws?
Fuel should never be dripping out of the venturis at idle, but should flow immediately when cracking open the throttle.
If anything, I'd suggest trying the float level lower, that would be a larger gap when measuring the floats.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Mine didn't.. Between two burnt plug wires, a terrible carb setup, and timing locked out at 35 degrees, it would drop 600+ rpm, and would quit with the idle any lower than ~1200. Coming to a stop would often kill it without two footing it. After addressing those issues (but before going efi), it would idle anywhere I wanted and drop ~100 going into gear. Nothing wrong with the converter.

While the converter isn't ruled out, it still sounds like there's enough unknowns and other issues that there's no definitive problem. If it is the converter, then when coming to a stop it would feel and act like a manual car brought to a stop without pushing in the clutch, which is a tough thing to try to describe. But coming to a stop real slow like could help identify it.

Heck, a video would probably do wonders to help pin things down. Doing the youtube account thing isn't that bad and could help clear things up fast..

Thing is now that the timing is at 12 my vacuum dropped to 15. So no stall in gear, burns rubber, idle now struggles with it turned all the way in-up. Before idle would run smooth at 20 vacuum , who knows how high timing. Fuel 5 psi. Compression 145 across.

What do you think about this information I found?

"Now; to find and set the total timing all you need to do is set the dial on your timing light to 36. Now rev your engine up to about 3,500 RPM (to insure that the mechanical weights are fully activated) and watch your timing mark on the harmonic balancer. Now rotate your distributor until the marks line-up at "0" on the crank. When it reads "0", (yet the light is set at 36), you have a total timing of 36 degrees. Make sure you do this with your vacuum advance NOT hooked-up. If you don't run a vacuum advance, then don't do anything, just leave everything as it is and tighten it down and you're good to go. Your engine isn't really at "0" or Top Dead Center. The timing light is offsetting the light beam by 36 degrees, so you should be reading "0" on the crank".

 

[Ferdinandbites]

No ridges in tips of the idle mixture screws?
Fuel should never be dripping out of the venturis at idle, but should flow immediately when cracking open the throttle.
If anything, I'd suggest trying the float level lower, that would be a larger gap when measuring the floats.

What do you mean about ridges? It goes to a point, taper, it's clean, not worn, not mushroomed at the tip.
Before I changed the timing if I had the mixture low enough it wouldn't drip and the engine would run smoothe. I think with the idle all the way out its probably opening the throttle right.
I can try to readjust the floats. U really think that could prevent the fuel from dripping in? Have u tried it before and been successful? So, lower the level, larger gap so be sure with you I will measure now more than 1/4? There seems to be some confusion from what I've read about float adjustment and well, I'm a confused one.
Thank you for helping me.

 

[Darthomas]

Yes, a larger gap, maybe 5/16 or 3/8.
If the level is TOO low, you will have a dead spot coming off idle, but you are nowhere near that condition right now if you see any dripping in the venturis.
If the needle valve screws had been overtightened, the taper might show a line or ridge which can make it difficult to adjust.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Yes, a larger gap, maybe 5/16 or 3/8.
If the level is TOO low, you will have a dead spot coming off idle, but you are nowhere near that condition right now if you see any dripping in the venturis.
If the needle valve screws had been overtightened, the taper might show a line or ridge which can make it difficult to adjust.

Alright then I'll make it a larger gap. Would you jump right into the 3/8 or a bit at a time 5/16? I imagine an 1/8 of an adjustment could probably make that much of a difference.
Ah, I get it, no ridge then. Screw looks good.

 

[Darthomas]

I set the float quite a bit lower than the factory setting on my AFB on the '66 383.
It ran better and fastet than the recommended setting and got better mileage, plus it didn't rot out the exhaust system as fast as previously.
I'd go straight to 3/8".
If the floats are the plastic type, they can become porous and not float as strong as they should, and still let the level be too high. Somewhere you can find the exact weight they're supposed to be if they haven't absorbed fuel.
If they have you can set them in the hot sun and dry them out. Then get some of the old-fashioned Indian Head gasket shellac in a little bottle with the round dauber inside the cap. Using your finger and a brush, recoat the outside of the float with a thin layer, let dry and repeat. Don't miss spots.
It's not dissolved by gas, and saves the trouble of finding new floats.
It won't hurt anything to do that just as prevention.

 

[B3RE]

no vacuum leaks other than small one at egr

This is probably why you have a rough idle, and need the metering rods raised. The egr valve is likely stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, resulting in a lean condition and consequently, a rough idle. Smack the base of the valve a few times with a hammer and drift punch and see if it idles better. Sometimes that will be enough to unstick it., sometimes not.

And for heavens sake, would someone please get yellow rose some ice cream?

 

[yellow rose]

This is probably why you have a rough idle, and need the metering rods raised. The egr valve is likely stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, resulting in a lean condition and consequently, a rough idle. Smac to base of the valve a few times with a hammer and drift punch and see if it idles better. Sometimes that will be enough to unstick it., sometimes not.

And for heavens sake, would someone please get yellow rose some ice cream?

At this point, I'd settle for a candy bar.

And a conclusion to this thread.

 

[B3RE]

This is probably why you have a rough idle, and need the metering rods raised. The egr valve is likely stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, resulting in a lean condition and consequently, a rough idle. Smack the base of the valve a few times with a hammer and drift punch and see if it idles better. Sometimes that will be enough to unstick it., sometimes not.

And for heavens sake, would someone please get yellow rose some ice cream?

At this point, I'd settle for a candy bar.

And a conclusion to this thread.

I was hoping you'd get some and share with me. I haven't had any ice cream in weeks.

 

[Darthomas]

When I put the 73 340 manifold on the 71 318, I was horrified at the two EGR bleeders firectly under the primaries, that were just going to bleed exhaust into the engine all the time. I plugged the heck out 'em and never looked back.
No feces in my food, no urine in my water, no exhaust in my intake. Pretty simple.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

I set the float quite a bit lower than the factory setting on my AFB on the '66 383.
It ran better and fastet than the recommended setting and got better mileage, plus it didn't rot out the exhaust system as fast as previously.
I'd go straight to 3/8".
If the floats are the plastic type, they can become porous and not float as strong as they should, and still let the level be too high. Somewhere you can find the exact weight they're supposed to be if they haven't absorbed fuel.
If they have you can set them in the hot sun and dry them out. Then get some of the old-fashioned Indian Head gasket shellac in a little bottle with the round dauber inside the cap. Using your finger and a brush, recoat the outside of the float with a thin layer, let dry and repeat. Don't miss spots.
It's not dissolved by gas, and saves the trouble of finding new floats.
It won't hurt anything to do that just as prevention.

Looks like copper. No holes.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

This is probably why you have a rough idle, and need the metering rods raised. The egr valve is likely stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, resulting in a lean condition and consequently, a rough idle. Smack the base of the valve a few times with a hammer and drift punch and see if it idles better. Sometimes that will be enough to unstick it., sometimes not.

And for heavens sake, would someone please get yellow rose some ice cream?

Checked egr not open and blocked off vacuum just In case.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

At this point, I'd settle for a candy bar.

And a conclusion to this thread.

can we solve problem,
Then have ice cream,
Then conclude thread!
Eh, ah, sound good?

 

[Ferdinandbites]

This is probably why you have a rough idle, and need the metering rods raised. The egr valve is likely stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, resulting in a lean condition and consequently, a rough idle. Smack the base of the valve a few times with a hammer and drift punch and see if it idles better. Sometimes that will be enough to unstick it., sometimes not.

And for heavens sake, would someone please get yellow rose some ice cream?

Ah, the leak I'm referring to is through the shaft of the egr. Looks factory that way. Like it's always been like that. Bet a new one would like exactly the same way.

 

[Phreakish]

Yes, your pickup could be bad from contacting the reluctor. I doubt it's an issue though, typically when bad the engine simply quits when warm. But there's no guarantee. I would bet on your current issues being at the carb, though.

If your metering rods need to be way up to idle, something is off. You're effectively running off the venturi's feeding fuel, which is not the way it's supposed to work.

You need to put the metering rods to factory/stock and then figure out why it may not be getting fuel at idle. Either back the idle mix screws out a bit until it will idle - and if it still won't, then you need to determine if there's a plugged passage or something (This seems like a decent explanation of what to look for in the idle circuit. Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem ). I wouldn't lower the floats just yet, you need to figure out why it won't get fuel at idle, first. It should run pretty good at factory settings with factory parts. You can fine tune it more, later.

Where is your idle screw set? Does the engine die if you back the idle screw out way far? OR will it keep running? If it keeps running with the idle speed screw backed off, then there's a vacuum leak somewhere. You may try plugging the PCV as a troubleshooting method to see if its the proper one. Some will bypass too much air at idle and cause instability.

Leave your timing at 12 degrees with the vac line unhooked. Don't go messing with it until the carb behaves as it should (metering rods down, idle mix screws have an effect on idle). It's NORMAL for more timing to add vacuum, you don't need to max your vacuum at idle with timing. Total timing isn't a problem until after your carb is working properly. Your advance shouldn't start to kick in until 1k+ rpm anyway, and idle should be below that.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Yes, your pickup could be bad from contacting the reluctor. I doubt it's an issue though, typically when bad the engine simply quits when warm. But there's no guarantee. I would bet on your current issues being at the carb, though.

If your metering rods need to be way up to idle, something is off. (I agree) You're effectively running off the venturi's feeding fuel, which is not the way it's supposed to work. (I agree)

You need to put the metering rods to factory/stock and then figure out why it may not be getting fuel at idle.(it wont run then) Either back the idle mix screws out a bit until it will idle (its turned all the way in, if backed out will stall) - and if it still won't, then you need to determine if there's a plugged passage or something (its not blocked to the best of my knowledge all checked now when carb was off except idle screws but I checked that last night. only so many holes. I probably checked the idle screws and I probably loose credibility about this but its all good) (This seems like a decent explanation of what to look for in the idle circuit. Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem ) (ill . I wouldn't lower the floats just yet, you need to figure out why it won't get fuel at idle, first. It should run pretty good at factory settings with factory parts. You can fine tune it more, later. (what are factory setting for the carb? I assume the kit has the correct specs but what if for eg the float setting is not 1/4 and should be lower?)

Where is your idle screw set?(all the way in) Does the engine die if you back the idle screw out way far?(no, but in gear it will most times sometime it just barely stays running in drive or reverse) OR will it keep running? If it keeps running with the idle speed screw backed off, then there's a vacuum leak somewhere.(checked for leaks at hoses, carb basegasket and intake, found and replaced leak at intake retested good) You may try plugging the PCV as a troubleshooting method to see if its the proper one.(did that no difference) Some will bypass too much air at idle and cause instability.(new pcv because I thought the same, no diff)

Leave your timing at 12 degrees with the vac line unhooked(unhooked while trying to set carb?). Don't go messing with it until the carb behaves as it should (metering rods down, idle mix screws have an effect on idle)(ah, ill try that. unhook vac to dist, reset rods, try to adjust idle screws). It's NORMAL for more timing to add vacuum(but more timing, I advanced it, has made less vacuum, 20 down to 15), you don't need to max your vacuum at idle with timing. Total timing isn't a problem until after your carb is working properly(ok). Your advance shouldn't start to kick in until 1k+ rpm anyway, and idle should be below that(ok).

thank you kindly again for your continued help/support.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Yes, your pickup could be bad from contacting the reluctor. I doubt it's an issue though, typically when bad the engine simply quits when warm. But there's no guarantee. I would bet on your current issues being at the carb, though.

If your metering rods need to be way up to idle, something is off. You're effectively running off the venturi's feeding fuel, which is not the way it's supposed to work.

You need to put the metering rods to factory/stock and then figure out why it may not be getting fuel at idle. Either back the idle mix screws out a bit until it will idle - and if it still won't, then you need to determine if there's a plugged passage or something (This seems like a decent explanation of what to look for in the idle circuit. Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem ). I wouldn't lower the floats just yet, you need to figure out why it won't get fuel at idle, first. It should run pretty good at factory settings with factory parts. You can fine tune it more, later.

Where is your idle screw set? Does the engine die if you back the idle screw out way far? OR will it keep running? If it keeps running with the idle speed screw backed off, then there's a vacuum leak somewhere. You may try plugging the PCV as a troubleshooting method to see if its the proper one. Some will bypass too much air at idle and cause instability.

Leave your timing at 12 degrees with the vac line unhooked. Don't go messing with it until the carb behaves as it should (metering rods down, idle mix screws have an effect on idle). It's NORMAL for more timing to add vacuum, you don't need to max your vacuum at idle with timing. Total timing isn't a problem until after your carb is working properly. Your advance shouldn't start to kick in until 1k+ rpm anyway, and idle should be below that.

Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem I'm pretty sure I stumbled across this at one time but for some reason I don't recall following through on this. It looks very promising. To be honest, I've started to take notes on what I've done because I feel as if I've done so much I'm starting to loose track. Old age is greeping up on me. Can't wait to give this a try.
I really appreciate your help. Whether u r using your own resources, collaborating with someone else or using your own time to research. Its very kindly of you. Last night I was out in the rain trying that total timing. I just want to get this thing on the road. this is the second summer not driving it. its a real shame, such a cool car. I took it out a few days ago, just had to. it was so very cool stalling and all. by the way my bold letters aren't meant to be yelling just want to differentiate between conversations!

 

[Phreakish]

No problem. We've all been there...

Taking notes is prudent, not a matter of old age ;) Once you get beyond 1-2 things being changed, it is impossible to keep track of it all. Write things down, take note of how things are working and put that in your log too.
Always verify the easy stuff. It takes so little time to throw a timing light on an engine, there's no reason not to make sure things 'stay put' if you play with anything related to the distributor.

The 2bbls do seem to have a reputation for poor idle due to these tubes getting clogged. Goes to show just how important it is to have a decent fuel filter!

You're so close. Keep wrenching away, and you should have this all licked within a day or so.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

No problem. We've all been there...

Taking notes is prudent, not a matter of old age ;) Once you get beyond 1-2 things being changed, it is impossible to keep track of it all. Write things down, take note of how things are working and put that in your log too.
Always verify the easy stuff. It takes so little time to throw a timing light on an engine, there's no reason not to make sure things 'stay put' if you play with anything related to the distributor.

The 2bbls do seem to have a reputation for poor idle due to these tubes getting clogged. Goes to show just how important it is to have a decent fuel filter!

You're so close. Keep wrenching away, and you should have this all licked within a day or so.

I appreciate your optimism!

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem I'm pretty sure I stumbled across this at one time but for some reason I don't recall following through on this. It looks very promising. To be honest, I've started to take notes on what I've done because I feel as if I've done so much I'm starting to loose track. Old age is greeping up on me. Can't wait to give this a try.
I really appreciate your help. Whether u r using your own resources, collaborating with someone else or using your own time to research. Its very kindly of you. Last night I was out in the rain trying that total timing. I just want to get this thing on the road. this is the second summer not driving it. its a real shame, such a cool car. I took it out a few days ago, just had to. it was so very cool stalling and all. by the way my bold letters aren't meant to be yelling just want to differentiate between conversations!

No problem. We've all been there...

Taking notes is prudent, not a matter of old age ;) Once you get beyond 1-2 things being changed, it is impossible to keep track of it all. Write things down, take note of how things are working and put that in your log too.
Always verify the easy stuff. It takes so little time to throw a timing light on an engine, there's no reason not to make sure things 'stay put' if you play with anything related to the distributor.

The 2bbls do seem to have a reputation for poor idle due to these tubes getting clogged. Goes to show just how important it is to have a decent fuel filter!

You're so close. Keep wrenching away, and you should have this all licked within a day or so.

oh, btw, "Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem " the symptoms are bang on with how this thing is operating.

 

[Ferdinandbites]

Yes, your pickup could be bad from contacting the reluctor. I doubt it's an issue though, typically when bad the engine simply quits when warm. But there's no guarantee. I would bet on your current issues being at the carb, though.

If your metering rods need to be way up to idle, something is off. You're effectively running off the venturi's feeding fuel, which is not the way it's supposed to work.

You need to put the metering rods to factory/stock and then figure out why it may not be getting fuel at idle. Either back the idle mix screws out a bit until it will idle - and if it still won't, then you need to determine if there's a plugged passage or something (This seems like a decent explanation of what to look for in the idle circuit. Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem ). I wouldn't lower the floats just yet, you need to figure out why it won't get fuel at idle, first. It should run pretty good at factory settings with factory parts. You can fine tune it more, later.

Where is your idle screw set? Does the engine die if you back the idle screw out way far? OR will it keep running? If it keeps running with the idle speed screw backed off, then there's a vacuum leak somewhere. You may try plugging the PCV as a troubleshooting method to see if its the proper one. Some will bypass too much air at idle and cause instability.

Leave your timing at 12 degrees with the vac line unhooked. Don't go messing with it until the carb behaves as it should (metering rods down, idle mix screws have an effect on idle). It's NORMAL for more timing to add vacuum, you don't need to max your vacuum at idle with timing. Total timing isn't a problem until after your carb is working properly. Your advance shouldn't start to kick in until 1k+ rpm anyway, and idle should be below that.

Your bang on once again. I found the one idle tube blocked. Cleaned them up. Checked the other holes. Lowered the metering rods, lowered the idle screw, oh, and the idle mixture screws actually made a difference when I adjusted them to highest rpm. The idle is so low I thought for sure it would stall in gear. It just purrs butttttt there is a slight stumble still and looking down carb instead of the right side dripping it doesn't anymore but the left side now drips a little which is probably causing the stumble still. Weird again.

Thank you. I'm so very happy that every step of the way you and the others have made me get this thing this far. I did all this again in the rain. I'm that determined to get this going.

 

[Phreakish]

If the tubes were clogged, there are probably some plugged passages in the carb body too. A thorough cleaning and rodding out the passages with a wire or needle probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Glad it's working better though!

Can you describe the stumble better? Is it as you tip in to take off from a light? Or slightly different?

 

[Ferdinandbites]

If the tubes were clogged, there are probably some plugged passages in the carb body too. A thorough cleaning and rodding out the passages with a wire or needle probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Glad it's working better though!

Can you describe the stumble better? Is it as you tip in to take off from a light? Or slightly different?

Rrrrr didn't want to take this thing apart again but I want it to run properly so here we go again but I believe you are right probably plugged somewhere else.
I took a video but my phone must stabilize the image somehow and u cant really see it although it can be heard. I'll try to describe it to u. When I type stumble it means to me a miss but no popping or banging its like a hesitation. Ok, running engine, stumble, running engine, stumble stumble, running, stumble stumble stumble, running, stumble and so on. Kinda sporadic but can go a second or two running good then the stumble comes on from one to two to four. I tried to block the fuel from dripping but it has a hole underneath I can't block to see if it would effect the stumble. Oh, the idle screw is turned all the way off. Should have checked what rpms it's at. I wonder if after I cleaned this thing something else from the bowl clogged that left side. Ya, will take carb apart. Need to be 100% sure.