Comp XE275HL Idle Vacuum

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gzig5

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This grind looks like a pretty decent fit for my 340 with 2.02 J heads, Air gap, headers, and 2500 rpm converter. But, I've got power brakes and steering and am concerned about idle vacuum level. Anyone running this grind can comment on what you see for vacuum? Car is mainly street driven and hopefully some auto-x later in the year.
 
I ran an Isky 280 in a 79 Dodge Magnum 360 inch motor. I had plenty of vacuum for power brakes & to control the heat & ac blend doors at idle.
 
Power steering is not a concern with vacuum levels.

62 degree overlap on that cam so I think with good tuning and a correct PCV valve, you can get 12 in vacuum out of it if not a bit more. Probably fine for daily driving and general street use.

If you auto-x, you'll be using the brakes repeatedly and quickly, and I'd expect you to 'drain out' the vacuum quickly, even with a higher vacuum level. The solution to that is to convert to manual brakes. It is not hard, and will work quite well.
 
I run the solid XS274S, 340, airgap, IMM RHS LA 2.02, 3200 tight converter, 999 low gear set, 4.10.
12" vac 1000 rpm, 9" in gear with 200 rpm drop. Get the tune right, I run 28* initial timing 34 total.
 
This grind looks like a pretty decent fit for my 340 with 2.02 J heads, Air gap, headers, and 2500 rpm converter. But, I've got power brakes and steering and am concerned about idle vacuum level. Anyone running this grind can comment on what you see for vacuum? Car is mainly street driven and hopefully some auto-x later in the year.
That's the cam I have in my 340. Has about 11" of vacuum at idle. Here is a sound clip at 900 rpm idle. But mine has manual brakes.
 
I run the solid XS274S, 340, airgap, IMM RHS LA 2.02, 3200 tight converter, 999 low gear set, 4.10.
12" vac 1000 rpm, 9" in gear with 200 rpm drop. Get the tune right, I run 28* initial timing 34 total.

I run that 274-S in a 416 stroker. M1 single plane, edelbrock heads, tight convertor. I can’t rmember exactly the vacuum. It idles 800 rpm in gear, 1000 not. IIRC, it was like 11-13” vacuum. I don’t run power brakes. But I remember the comment I probably could run power brake.

Maybe the stroker gives more vacuum all else equal ?


 
I run that 274-S in a 416 stroker. M1 single plane, edelbrock heads, tight convertor. I can’t rmember exactly the vacuum. It idles 800 rpm in gear, 1000 not. IIRC, it was like 11-13” vacuum. I don’t run power brakes. But I remember the comment I probably could run power brake.

Maybe the stroker gives more vacuum all else equal ?
Yes, more cubes suck more air per revolution = more vacuum. I choose to run my idle rpm on the high side. I want oil slinging on the camshaft.
 
The 274S has 5 degrees less overlap on paper at the higher lift (.015"), so that is contributing to the higher vacuum too. Can't see the the lash recommended to see if that shortens it any more. (I kinda like it for a project....)
 
20-227-4 - Xtreme Hi-lift Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Comp XE275HL
275/[email protected]/110+4/61overlap and 231/[email protected], w lifts of .525/.525
Compares to my Hughes at;
276/[email protected]/110+4/61overlap and 230/[email protected], w lifts of .549/.571
Docile as heck with aluminum heads and 10.9Scr. Plenty of vacuum at 750 to run the F-body/mid 70s Dart single diaphragm booster. It would not work properly with the dual diaphragm 69/70 type unit. Mine idles down to 550rpm at 5* advance for parading at 4mph with 3.55s and a manual trans. If the vacuum bleeds down while parading, a blip of the throttle while declutched and it's charged up again.
IDK the vacuum exactly,lol; maybe 10ish@750@14* idle-timing. But IDK at 550 and 5*,lol.

With an automatic ,by the time you have backed out of the driveway, and are moving forward in first gear, it should be fine. If not just blip the throttle a time or two.
When gently slowing down from speed, just before coming to a stop,with disc-brakes, is when a deficiency might show up; just downshift into first, and the rise in rpm will suck it up in a couple of heartbeats.
Or do what I did;
Put big fat tires on the back with drum brakes and eliminate the P-valve. Then let the drums haul you down the last car length or two. Problem solved/ drive normal.. With this set-up I was able to run the mighty 292/292/108 Mopar cam at 11.3Scr, also at 14* idle timing, on that same booster.
 
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Yes there are a number of tricks to replenish the vacuum level.... but for the OP going auto-x-ing or any racing really....having to add some tricks in the middle of a tricky set of corners, or not having a predictable bake pedal pressure can be really a problem. BTDT, in rally cars..... it really sucks to not have the vacuum level you had for the last 50 turns just when you're diving into a downhill off-camber corner on loose gravel with lots of hard oak trees lurking just off of the road surface LOL
 
This grind looks like a pretty decent fit for my 340 with 2.02 J heads, Air gap, headers, and 2500 rpm converter. But, I've got power brakes and steering and am concerned about idle vacuum level. Anyone running this grind can comment on what you see for vacuum? Car is mainly street driven and hopefully some auto-x later in the year.

Use Rhoades variable duration lifters...
 
Rhoads lifters bleed down a bit at low rpm with the lower oil-pressure, which decreases valve open duration,which increases the engine vacuum.

Do this;install a vacuum gauge on the intake,then slowly rev the engine up, very slowly. Stop as soon as you see about 13" of vacuum. All boosters have a check-valve fitting which "traps the vacuum". If the booster is working right, once it is charged at or above 13", it will provide enough power for at least one long slow braking glide from 60mph to zero. Whatever rpm you saw at 13" is the minimum rpm to keep the booster charged no matter what the car is doing.
Some boosters might require a lil less, some a lil more. With your cam, and a good tune, I bet that is gonna be about 1000 to 1200 rpm.
Try to imagine, on an autocross track, where on that track you will be at or below that rpm, and repeatedly stabbing the brakes, to drain the booster. My guess is it will never happen, therefore my guess is that a properly functioning booster will not have a problem. IMO it's a non issue with that 231/110 cam, she's a pussy. Well; more of a sweetheart; I really like mine.
I have a manual trans in my streeter. And one of the things I like to do is parade around the parking lot. With 3.55s my minimum speed is 4mph@550rpm. Yes that Hughes HE3037AL will idle down there, at 5* idle timing and a decent T-slot sync. With a little toe on the brake, and a little toe on the clutch to ease the bucking, I can get the tach down to 500, which is 3.6mph;a fast but not uncomfortably fast for most,walk. At 4/3.6 mph, I don't care about what the booster is doing. The 10" self-energizing rear drums have well enough power to stop the car, with a pair of 295/50-15 contact patches at 24psi. I don't even need front brakes at that speed.
But here's the deal; accelerating normally from a stop;1000rpm =7.3mph on my car, and minimum vacuum has been achieved; the booster is ready. And for my car, it will stay ready at all times that the rpm is over 1000rpm/7.3 mph.

Do this;
wind your car up to the highest speed you are likely to achieve in an event, in whatever gear you might run the event in, then apply the brakes to a stop, in as short a distance as you can. Do this thrice and average the results.
Now do it again,this time simultaneously put the trans in neutral and note any change in brake performance.
Do it again but this time shut the engine off as well. This is the ultimate test.

I did this with my 292/108. With a manual trans it was a non-issue. In fact, with 11.3Scr, the trans, while downshifting,does such a significant amount of braking, in a normal DD application, that the front pads last a really really really long time; to the point that I change rear shoes more often than pads.

With an automatic, if, IF, I would run into a problem, I would just install a dashpot on the throttle arm to slightly delay the last little bit of throttle closing, like was on the factory Carters. But I sure wouldn't ditch my booster. Not because I have chicken-legs either. I just prefer a booster in a DD. My left leg controls the clutch. My right foot controls the gas. Either foot could be on the brake, or both;depending on how things are going,lol. The booster allows a great deal of finessing of the brakes, and after 50 years of driving,both feet know the drill.

May the force be with you.....
 
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They bleed down at idle and take out about 15° of duration and .025" of lift to make the cam tamer, but get full lift and duration by 3500 RPM....

I had a 484/248 MP cam in a 340 and without Rhoades lifters, it idled choppy at 1100 RPM 10" Hg...

I installed Rhoades lifters and it idled much smoother at 800 RPM and 13" Hg....

It's like having an adjustable cam...


Rhoades main page:

Rhoads Lifters


Part number:

Part Numbers


Read the second article here for a detailed explaination on how they work:

Articles
 
Try to imagine, on an autocross track, where on that track you will be at or below that rpm, and repeatedly stabbing the brakes, to drain the booster. My guess is it will never happen, therefore my guess is that a properly functioning booster will not have a problem.
I'm honestly not trying to be gratuitously argumentative, but this bleed off does happen... The problem is that, for doing weight transfer to pitch a RWD car around in particular, you left foot brake a lot (or heel & toe) while still partly in the throttle if you are really aggressively working the car through a set of tight corners. So the engine dropping low RPM's to recover the vacuum loss does not always occur as one might think. It really does happen that way. Happens in rallying too, snapping the car through a tight set of corners.
 
I'm honestly not trying to be gratuitously argumentative, but this bleed off does happen... The problem is that, for doing weight transfer to pitch a RWD car around in particular, you left foot brake a lot (or heel & toe) while still partly in the throttle if you are really aggressively working the car through a set of tight corners. So the engine dropping low RPM's to recover the vacuum loss does not always occur as one might think. It really does happen that way. Happens in rallying too, snapping the car through a tight set of corners.
I know you're not nm9, you're a good guy. But honestly the 235 cam is IMO just not gonna explore the limit, and the tests I outlined will prove it.
I don't do autocross, but I do do dirt rally cross whenever I can, even if just for fun. On dirt/grass the speeds are way down, and I just stuff it in second and leave it there. This puts me in the top percentile of finishers. If I can't drain my booster hard-charging and two-footing the course, how is an automatic gonna?
Nevertheless,I capitulate to your experience.
 
I'm honestly not trying to be gratuitously argumentative, but this bleed off does happen... The problem is that, for doing weight transfer to pitch a RWD car around in particular, you left foot brake a lot (or heel & toe) while still partly in the throttle if you are really aggressively working the car through a set of tight corners. So the engine dropping low RPM's to recover the vacuum loss does not always occur as one might think. It really does happen that way. Happens in rallying too, snapping the car through a tight set of corners.

There was a model of Cherokee in the early-mid 90's that had a football shaped vacuum canister in them mounted on the back of the front bumper to store vacuum... It may be adaptable for a low vacuum situation also to help give some extra vacuum... It may have been on a European application....
 
I was vaguely familiar with the Rhodes lifters before I brought this up, but hadn't considered them as a potential solution. I'd prefer to not have to resort to them but sounds like they could be the ticket if there is a issue with vacuum. I know there are external vac pumps and canisters too.

I was able to get a smoking deal on the XE275HL cam kit (cam and lifters) so I jumped on it. There is still an open question as to whether this cam will physically fit in my engine without contact on the pistons. I "think" I have a stock '70 340 motor but I won't know until I pull the heads. I've also got a set of 1.6 adjustable rockers I was going to put in before the cam opportunity came up, but that could be too much of a good thing with this cam.
 
The 274S has 5 degrees less overlap on paper at the higher lift (.015"), so that is contributing to the higher vacuum too. Can't see the the lash recommended to see if that shortens it any more. (I kinda like it for a project....)
.016 & .018 is spec lash, I run mine at .012/.012
 

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