Requested oiling mod info

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I always wondered about this 'fix' & agree with others that it does....nothing. It ignores a fundamental law of physics: fluid pressure can only be generated/maintained in a system if the pump pumps against a restriction. If one of the passages connected to the system is 'open'....no oil going into it...then the pressure would drop.
Pretty sure this 'fix' was used for big blocks as well.
 
Jadaharabi said:
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You can drill through the oil galley into the passage going up to the cylinder heads and then plug the access hole that you made in order to do this. Then you drill the cam bearing for number two and number four and you turn them so that you are only feeding the cam and not the oil passage up to the head. This will give you full-time oil to the heads from the main oil Passage on each side of the motor.
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That’s kinda what I’m looking at. I’m thinking of clocking the cam bearings on 2 and 4 so it blocks the hole going up to the heads. I just need to spend some time looking for the right place to get oil to the rockers that doesn’t pull it off the main bearings or from the passenger side oil gallery. I already block the oil off to the lifters.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I can see it. Once the whole system is "full" of oil, what else can be accomplished?
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My thoughts are the ‘pressure drops’ say you have five tubes all feed by one big one one, four tubes with a .50” hole and one tube with a 1/4” hole (with less pressure then) Maybe that crossover tube is to help the 1/4” hole tube? I guess it depends also on how much reserve oil is available to feed that larger hole and is the reserve large enough at high rpm so some of the others don’t starve for pressure? Maybe it all comes down to the volume with less restrictions of oil being supplied. However it’s accomplished the job is to make sure ALL the mains have sufficient oil-pressure at any rpm.
 
Killer6 said:
Yes Sir, I have the 2nd edition.
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The predecessor to both these is the Larry Schreib softcover “The Small Block Mopar Handbook” Copyright 1974

Lot of same stuff carried over. Little tweaks here and there.

And W-2 stuff is included in the later books because that head was publicly released after 1974. Just later packaged together with the big block stuff.

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Ceedawg said:
My thoughts are the ‘pressure drops’ say you have five tubes all feed by one big one one, four tubes with a .50” hole and one tube with a 1/4” hole (with less pressure then) Maybe that crossover tube is to help the 1/4” hole tube? I guess it depends also on how much reserve oil is available to feed that larger hole and is the reserve large enough at high rpm so some of the others don’t starve for pressure? Maybe it all comes down to the volume with less restrictions of oil being supplied. However it’s accomplished the job is to make sure ALL the mains have sufficient oil-pressure at any rpm.
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That is, ANY RPM you plan to run.
 
Rat Bastid said:
That’s kinda what I’m looking at. I’m thinking of clocking the cam bearings on 2 and 4 so it blocks the hole going up to the heads. I just need to spend some time looking for the right place to get oil to the rockers that doesn’t pull it off the main bearings or from the passenger side oil gallery. I already block the oil off to the lifters.
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Allow me a stupid question. Wouldn't grooving the rear most camshaft journal or using a grooved rear camshaft bearing provide full time oiling to the top? I know it does on a slant 6. And since the oil pressure essentially comes from the bottom end, HOW exactly do you get full time oil to the top without taking it from the bottom? Not arguing, just trying to understand. Thank you drive through.
 
As another experienced observation, I've seen a lot of #1cam bearings in poor condition on bone stock mills with little explanation, i.e. stock cams & weak- *** valvspring loads, the amount of build-up time for the left gallery has to be shorting the feed to that cam bearing. JMO.. the crossover would shorten the path & take the torturous "V" out of the route.
I agree, once static pressure is achieved in the right gallery, only restrictive passages/poor transitions should be responsible for a lack of supply.
If those Pros were seeing endurance issues with #3&#4, and this fixed it for them, I'm not going to argue the whys. I would discuss it with them, & if Their opinions on it have changed any. As per the posted txt, it became an issue when the clearances were opened & very high rpm's were achieved, the top-end feed issue is a good point.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Allow me a stupid question. Wouldn't grooving the rear most camshaft journal or using a grooved rear camshaft bearing provide full time oiling to the top? I know it does on a slant 6. And since the oil pressure essentially comes from the bottom end, HOW exactly do you get full time oil to the top without taking it from the bottom? Not arguing, just trying to understand. Thank you drive through.
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The cam journals are stealing oil from the mains when they send the pressure up top, fully grooving the cam would make that dynamic worse.
 
Killer6 said:
The cam journals are stealing oil from the mains when they send the pressure up top, fully grooving the cam would make that dynamic worse.
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What I'm asking is since ALL the oil pressure comes from the bottom, how do you get around taking oil from the mains? That's what I'm not understanding.
 
The oil doesn't come from the bottom, it comes from the right gallery, the main feed goes down to the main. That 1 main feed has to supply the main, rods, cam journal, AND the top end whenever the feed holes are aligned. Every time the journal is in the flow position it bleeds the established pressure at the "V" above the main in pulses.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Allow me a stupid question. Wouldn't grooving the rear most camshaft journal or using a grooved rear camshaft bearing provide full time oiling to the top? I know it does on a slant 6. And since the oil pressure essentially comes from the bottom end, HOW exactly do you get full time oil to the top without taking it from the bottom? Not arguing, just trying to understand. Thank you drive through.
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On a small block you groove the 2 and 4 cam bearings. That gets full time oil up there. I only do that on roller cam stuff though. And then you are really pulling a bunch of oil from the bearings.

That’s why I’m looking for a relatively simple way to not take any oil off the feeds to the mains to oil the rockers. I’m going to lean on my junk a bit when I get it back together so I don’t want to start nipping bearings.
 
Killer6 said:
The oil doesn't come from the bottom, it comes from the right gallery, the main feed goes down to the main. That 1 main feed has to supply the main, rods, cam journal, AND the top end whenever the feed holes are aligned. Every time the journal is in the flow position it bleeds the established pressure at the "V" above the main in pulses.
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The cam and rocker gear are always taking oil from the mains on these engines.

Now, if you are saying to do the crossover so you can block the feed to the drivers side gallery and still feed the lifters/rockers then yes, you can do that.

That’s not the same thing as claiming it slows the velocity of the oil down so it can make the turn into the main feeds and stuff like that. That’s not true.

And even if you do the crossover, you are still pulling oil of the main feed to the main bearings. You just shortened the routing.
 
Killer6 said:
The oil doesn't come from the bottom, it comes from the right gallery, the main feed goes down to the main. That 1 main feed has to supply the main, rods, cam journal, AND the top end whenever the feed holes are aligned. Every time the journal is in the flow position it bleeds the established pressure at the "V" above the main in pulses.
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Ok, I looked at an oiling diagram, I think I get it now. Thank you drive through.
 
Killer6 said:
As another experienced observation, I've seen a lot of #1cam bearings in poor condition on bone stock mills with little explanation, i.e. stock cams & weak- *** valvspring loads, the amount of build-up time for the left gallery has to be shorting the feed to that cam bearing. JMO.. the crossover would shorten the path & take the torturous "V" out of the route.
I agree, once static pressure is achieved in the right gallery, only restrictive passages/poor transitions should be responsible for a lack of supply.
If those Pros were seeing endurance issues with #3&#4, and this fixed it for them, I'm not going to argue the whys. I would discuss it with them, & if Their opinions on it have changed any. As per the posted txt, it became an issue when the clearances were opened & very high rpm's were achieved, the top-end feed issue is a good point.
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The crossover doesn’t fix the 3 and 4 rod bearing feed issues at RPM though. That’s an all together different issue.
 
On feeding the rockers, why not block all the feeds up to top and make a tube at the end on the left galley then tap into the passages just below the head. This would get the oil to the desired parts BEFORE going up top, the last stop so to speak. This way would not take away part of the oil going to #2 or #4.
 
Ceedawg said:
On feeding the rockers, why not block all the feeds up to top and make a tube at the end on the left galley then tap into the passages just below the head. This would get the oil to the desired parts BEFORE going up top, the last stop so to speak. This way would not take away part of the oil going to #2 or #4.
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I did something like that before. It was a PITA to plumb. I want to keep it all internal and use the existing feed galleries from the cam bearings, just getting the oil from somewhere other than one of the two main feed galleries.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I did something like that before. It was a PITA to plumb. I want to keep it all internal and use the existing feed galleries from the cam bearings, just getting the oil from somewhere other than one of the two main feed galleries.
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A tee off the back of left passage one line to each existing passage at top of block. Done on big blocks and Hemis for same reason, to keep #2 main from starving.
 
With a big block and Indy SR heads the SRs are external oiling and being fed from the rear by the oil pressure ports. I know the sb only has the 1 rear port but u should be able to run a Y block to feed the heads. Or sm I way iff base here. Kim
 
Ceedawg said:
A tee off the back of left passage one line to each existing passage at top of block. Done on big blocks and Hemis for same reason, to keep #2 main from starving.
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By left do you mean the drivers side passage or the passenger side?
 
oldkimmer said:
With a big block and Indy SR heads the SRs are external oiling and being fed from the rear by the oil pressure ports. I know the sb only has the 1 rear port but u should be able to run a Y block to feed the heads. Or sm I way iff base here. Kim
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That’s where I’m heading at this point. But rather than have external lines, I’m thinking of drilling into the gallery that feeds the oil pressure gauge and using that to feed the rockers through the original passage in the block.

I just need to make the time to go out there and look at it real close and think it all the way through before I start drilling holes. As I see it now, the oil going to the gauge port isn’t taking oil directly off the oil gallery feeding the mains.

I really need to go do some work on that but I’ve got other things keeping me much more busy than I want to be.
 
Ceedawg said:
Drivers side is the left, the way it sits in the car.
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Ok, that’s what I thought. At this point I don’t have any oil there. It’s blocked by a set screw under the #1 main bearing. I’m considering tubing that gallery too, so that there would be oil there (if I wanted it) and since it’s at the end of the line, I could pick up oil for the rockers right there.

I’ve never looked into tubing that side and don’t know if it would work.

Or, I could suck it up and have all the lifter bores bushed and not tube anything.
 
One other way that I’m thinking about, the top end doesn’t need oil for 15-20 seconds. I have two nitrous like solenoids that I could tie into each passage way to top, one at bottom and one at top, drive a plug halfway down. Then just before launch, shut them off or anytime before, so oil drains back to pan, after pass turn back on down return road.
Some modified production guys running a 277 small block (screaming at 11,5) has no oil going up top, they take the valve covers off, squirt oil on everything put covers back on and run it. The other thing he said he might try is installing a tube in the valve cover with 8 little drip holes to oil right over the pushrod cups, oil would then sling over the rest (springs) just fill it up before the run. Maybe 5oz or so
 
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