Painless install almost done, no turn signals

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208Dart

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Hey all,
Been working on my painless installation over the last few weeks and have gotten to the point of testing the system. Car was gutted before I got it.
I have a new turn signal switch from classic industries as well as a new ignition switch from same place.
I initially had a problem with my headlight switch but dug into the factory wiring diagrams a bit more and got it working perfectly. I replaced my ammeter with an aftermarket volt meter.
I've replaced or cleaned all the bulb sockets for signal and parking lights and replaced all the bulbs.

Things that work:
Running lights turn on with first pull of light switch. TURN SIGNAL INDICATORS LIGHT UP ON DASH with this engagement. They turn off when headlights are turned on however. This makes sense to me since the signal bulbs are on in the "running light" mode. Might be wrong though.
Brake lights work in all light settings.
Hazard lights flash and work perfectly.
Headlights turn on, high beams and low beams work, dash lights turn on, volt gauge reads correctly.
I've grounded my steering column to the column mounting bolt.
Fuses are all good.
If I connect a ground wire to what I'll call the horn plunger I can hear the horn relay click. Horn is not installed at this time.
I've traced my wiring diagrams and I cannot figure out what might be hooked up incorrectly.

I have replaced the turn signal connector with some modern pigtails because I was unable to source an original connector.
I have the terminals listed 1 through 8 on the connector. Here's what I have them labeled as and what they're connected to:
Terminal 1: Horn Ground - connected to painless wire 963 "horn switch"
Terminal 2: Left Turn - connected to painless wire 926 "left front turn signal"
Terminal 3: Right Turn - Connected to painless 925 "right front turn signal"
Terminal 4: Emergency Flasher - Connected to painless 951 "Hazard B+"
Terminal 5: Turn signal Flasher - Connected to painless 952 "Turn signal flasher B+"
Terminal 6: Left rear turn signal - connected to painless 949 "left rear turn signal"
Terminal 7: Right rear turn signal - connected to painless 948 "right rear turn signal"
Terminal 8: Brake switch - connected to painless 918 (brake switch). There were two 918 wires in this section, I connected both of them.

I'm at a bit of a loss at this point. If anyone has any tips or ways to test my signal switch that would be great! I'm good at tracing diagrams but I'm a novice at electrical in general. Can post some pics from my phone after posting.

TIA!
Mike
 
Are the bulbs LED? If yes are the flashers LED rated? If yes they will be polarity sensitive which standard flashers are not... Try flipping the wires going into the flashers..
 
Tailite grounds.
Vise grip test wire to trunk striker, other end to bulb bases .
Tailite power backtracking thru signal filament, ( look closely at filaments) and grounds thru signal indicator bulbs in dash .
 
208Dart said:
Been working on my painless installation
Click to expand...

Maybe you'll be the one for whom that company's name actually turns out to be true.

208Dart said:
I have a new turn signal switch from classic industries
Click to expand...

Buying anything from Classic Industries is an efficient way of exchanging good money for bad parts.

208Dart said:
Running lights turn on with first pull of light switch. TURN SIGNAL INDICATORS LIGHT UP ON DASH with this engagement.
Click to expand...

That's wrong. The green pilot lights on the dash should only ever flash with the turn signals. They aren't to light up with the parking lights, or light up steadily under any other condition.

208Dart said:
They turn off when headlights are turned on however.
Click to expand...

What year and model is your car?

208Dart said:
I've traced my wiring diagrams and I cannot figure out what might be hooked up incorrectly.
Click to expand...

Have you double-checked to make sure you're using the correct kind of bulbs in the front turn signals? If you accidentally put BA15s-base bulbs (single-contact/single-filament, like an 1156) instead of BAY15d-base bulbs (two-filament/double-contact, like an 1157) you'll bridge the two contacts in the socket base and one of the symptoms is turn signal pilot lights lighting up steadily with the first click of the light switch. Shouldn't be possible to make this bulb swap, because the index pins are different, but sloppy sockets and/or bulbs make it possible. Same can happen with "LED bulbs", most of which are unsafe junk, even if they have the nominally correct base type.
 
You guys are great thank you.
Car is a 1970 dart swinger. Non rally dash.
I did LED dash lights bulbs but have I believe a combination of 1156 and 1157 type bulbs in the rear tailight housings. I know one socket had a single contact and the other socket had a dual contact.
I will check the turn signal bulbs in front, those I didn’t change (neither headlight bulbs, they were good).



slantsixdan said:
Maybe you'll be the one for whom that company's name actually turns out to be true.



Buying anything from Classic Industries is an efficient way of exchanging good money for bad parts.



That's wrong. The green pilot lights on the dash should only ever flash with the turn signals. They aren't to light up with the parking lights, or light up steadily under any other condition.



What year and model is your car?



Have you double-checked to make sure you're using the correct kind of bulbs in the front turn signals? If you accidentally put BA15s-base bulbs (single-contact/single-filament, like an 1156) instead of BAY15d-base bulbs (two-filament/double-contact, like an 1157) you'll bridge the two contacts in the socket base and one of the symptoms is turn signal pilot lights lighting up steadily with the first click of the light switch. Shouldn't be possible to make this bulb swap, because the index pins are different, but sloppy sockets and/or bulbs make it possible. Same can happen with "LED bulbs", most of which are unsafe junk, even if they have the nominally correct base type.
Click to expand...

It’s been anything but painless, probably have 25 hours into it so far. Hasn’t been awful, but definitely not painless!

I will be checking front turn bulbs first thing tomorrow!

Couple pics

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Are you sure you have the dash indicators actually hooked to the turn circuits? Should be hooked to the front lamp terminals of the front turn lamp filaments NOT the parking lamps filaments. You may have a lamp/ shell grounding problem or wrong lamps, LED or otherwise

ARE you getting power with key on to and out of the turn flasher? (Hazard flasher should show power all times)
 
67Dart273 said:
Are you sure you have the dash indicators actually hooked to the turn circuits? Should be hooked to the front lamp terminals of the front turn lamp filaments NOT the parking lamps filaments. You may have a lamp/ shell grounding problem or wrong lamps, LED or otherwise

ARE you getting power with key on to and out of the turn flasher? (Hazard flasher should show power all times)
Click to expand...

Will have to check tomorrow on power at relay. I can swap the relay between turns and hazards and hazards work just fine with either relay so I don’t think it’s an LED issue unless my LED’s in the dash could affect it somehow.

I “rebuilt” my instrument cluster and bought/used new circuit boards from chargerspecialties. Old ones has jumper wires soldered on both sides.
I robbed the old connectors from the OE harness and soldered the new harness wires to them. They’re easy enough to depin and swap.

Mike
 
67Dart273 said:
Are you sure you have the dash indicators actually hooked to the turn circuits? Should be hooked to the front lamp terminals of the front turn lamp filaments NOT the parking lamps filaments. You may have a lamp/ shell grounding problem or wrong lamps, LED or otherwise

ARE you getting power with key on to and out of the turn flasher? (Hazard flasher should show power all times)
Click to expand...

Oh also I noticed my front turn housings have a ground (assumed) male spade connector at the rear. I wired up ground wires to them and no change. So likely eliminate the grounding probability.

Mike
 
I think your going to find Dan nailed it with the single filament bulbs up front....Those should be dual filament & a single filament bulb will allow current on the park light circuit to back feed to the dash T/S indicators..
 
1WildRT said:
I think your going to find Dan nailed it with the single filament bulbs up front....Those should be dual filament & a single filament bulb will allow current on the park light circuit to back feed to the dash T/S indicators..
Click to expand...
My problems are never that easy lol but I’ll remain cautiously optimistic until tomorrow!
 
Well looks like it’s not the front turn bulbs. Both sides are dual filament.

Will check the instrument cluster connections this afternoon after I get some work out the door.

Mike

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Also I threw a volt meter on the turn signal flasher leads and am getting no power to either side with key on and either left/right turn signal "on". Definitely something going on here I just don't know what it is.

Mike
 
If you are not getting key on power to the flasher, THAT is the area you need to check. Should be simple Power should be going through key, fuse, to flasher

The functional path is key---(in ACC? or "run")--to whatever fuse supplies flasher--to flasher---out of flasher---to TS switch.

Hazard flasher has power at all times

Inputs and outputs to TS switch:

IN:
TS flasher power with key on
Hazard flasher power at all times
Switched brake lamps power at all times

OUT:

Left and right rear turn/ stop
Left and right front turn, branched off to indicators
 
67Dart273 said:
If you are not getting key on power to the flasher, THAT is the area you need to check. Should be simple Power should be going through key, fuse, to flasher

The functional path is key---(in ACC? or "run")--to whatever fuse supplies flasher--to flasher---out of flasher---to TS switch.

Hazard flasher has power at all times

Inputs and outputs to TS switch:

IN:
TS flasher power with key on
Hazard flasher power at all times
Switched brake lamps power at all times

OUT:

Left and right rear turn/ stop
Left and right front turn, branched off to indicators
Click to expand...

I will check! I missed a fairly obvious factor in that my radio isn't turning on either. Just checked the leads and I have constant 12V but the supposedly switch 12V wire is dead with key on.... However it DID turn on last week when I first tested the system.

I pulled all fuses and they're good but will check them again for continuity to make sure I didn't miss a small break.

Thank you!

Mike
 
I'm not going into wiring diagrams. It's easier to have you look in the car for a change that was made at some year model.
Look at the power connector to OEM radio. Does it have a red wire and a white wire in its same port? If yes, that white wire is the 12 volt supply to your turn signal switch. The white casing indicates continuing power but it couldn't remain white all the way to the turn signal switch because there was already a white wire in that connector coming from the brake lamp switch. Nearest/simplest place for this white wire coming from radio connector to change colors was a unused port of the bulkhead connector. So white went there and changed casing color coming away and on to the turn signal connector. I forget exactly what color it changed to.
Pianless might be just that in some GM or Ferd but for Chryslers.... definitely not. Good luck
 
LOL hey Red how are ya? He has a Painless harness, so I'm guessing the OEM harness glitches don't apply.
 
208Dart said:
I will check! I missed a fairly obvious factor in that my radio isn't turning on either. Just checked the leads and I have constant 12V but the supposedly switch 12V wire is dead with key on.... However it DID turn on last week when I first tested the system.

I pulled all fuses and they're good but will check them again for continuity to make sure I didn't miss a small break.

Thank you!

Mike
Click to expand...
..........And with the difference in Painless you are kinda on your own. It's even possible that Painless made a manufacturing mistake and misplaced a wire. Might be time to give them a call
 
Checking a few other things on lunch break, I think I am going to dig into the ignition switch wiring, and revisit my headlight switch wiring. I may also put a standard bulb back into the instrument panel lighting, I've ready the LED's don't provide enough resistance and can throw things off?

I've got something weird going on, it's not repeatable but every so often while activating left/right turn signals, key on/off, and headlight switch I'll see my radio turn on briefly and then turn off. Like it got a "pulse" of switched power. I'll post a picture of my headlight switch wiring schematic as after I replaced the headlight switch I believe is when the radio quit working.

Mike @ HCA
 
You may have B1 / B2 reversed, stand by--Yes. B1 is headlights power, B2 is tail/ park/ instrument

light switch.jpg
 
Well progress…
Had two wires switched in my ignition switch. Had I believe a key in buzzer wire connected to my accessory terminal. Got them connected properly and now my accessory power is working. Radio turns on.
Also my turn signals turn ON, however they flash as if they were hazards, both at the same time. Also, the turn signal indicators still come on with the half pull of the headlight switch but go off once it’s pulled out all the way and headlights come on.
Note pad picture shows what I’m connected to. Pins 1-3 aren’t used with the painless (Pin 3 Orange is actually gear shift indicator lamp that’s spliced into instrument panel lighting per OEM diagram, hence why it’s not being used. Dash lights are powered from headlight switch in this setup.

Also I crawled under the dash and found this piece has broken on the backside of my driver side circuit board on the instrument panel. Could this be causing my turn signal issue? What is it? I’ll have to pull it out on Saturday. Gotta head home for the evening.

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I cannot get terribly specific because I'm not familiar with painless. The indicators coming on are likely a backfeed due to an ungrounded front lamp. Try pulling the front bulbs and see if the indicators go out. One at a time, then both.
 
67Dart273 said:
LOL hey Red how are ya? He has a Painless harness, so I'm guessing the OEM harness glitches don't apply.
Click to expand...
I'm just growing older and grumpier by the day. I relate strongly to Redd Foxx's Fred Sanford character. Only difference between he and I, he don't have a small dog in his lap LOL
 
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