Wish I could take them.. but I'd be a nervous wreck that one would get loose or something and lost in another state.Too close to the tour... Drive it and enjoy it and do the conversion later. Pet the dogs for me.
Butters "Winter Upgrades". . Starting a Little Early
- Thread starter Dantra
- Start date
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It's best to keep them home. Hard to find a good sitter too
They'll happy at home with family. My wife has no interest in a multi day road trip that doesn't involve a beach... plus it's a little too "peoply" for her lol
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Are we married to the same person? lol
Distant cousins, perhaps
Have a look.. You can see where the ribbing might be lol
Brian was near hysterical laughter, every time I made run
Mish Mash of some updates...Lotsa words
Went on Power Tour last week and had a pretty good time. My daughters boyfriend (Bird) had decided, almost last minute, that he wanted to take his 85 W250. He had some things to knock off his list in a few weeks time but the biggest thing was to actually get out and drive it.. Which hadn't done much of. Alot of tinkering with his toy but he had only driven it maybe 50 miles since getting it, last year. He got it dialed in with odds and ends and put some miles on it before leaving. Pretty sure that he got his fill of driving it on PT haha. We ran into a guy at our hotel in Joliet with a beautiful 70 Challenger, that had been rear ended by a local. 3 cars involved and he was the only one to have insurance. We helped him remove his rear bumper, valance and pry the bodywork off the spring hangers.. was binding up pretty bad. In reality, the car was probably totaled.. but he'll put it back together. Waffled the springs, warped the quarters, doors were jacked and had frame damage. He was one of those guys that had a solid mind and accepted things for what they were. Reminds you that no matter how bad it is, it's not the end and you're still sucking air. This too shall pass. He gave me the bumper for a wall hanger.. had him sign and date it. Cool guy.. Dave Bruener.
All of my brake upgrade stuff came in a few weeks before PT but I held off doing it until I found some 15" wheels. Well, I finally found some yesterday (ironically, local). Picked up 4 15x7 with rings and centers for $450. Now I'm plagued with what tires/wheels I wanna run. Currently have 15x6.5 rears.. So, do I move those to the front for a very small stagger or go 15x7 on all 4 corners.. and then front tires.. Can I get away with 225/60s in the front without rubbing brake lines and metal. Rears are 245/60. It all gives my brain something to focus on.
Throughout the tour, I battled my tune, but the Dart never missed a beat. The highway driving was great, but he slower in-town cruising and waiting in lines was brutal. It's either idle or 1500 rpm.. alot of surging that had my neck sore before it was over. I stopped into the HP tuner booth, in Joliet and then again in Ft Wayne. Techs were very cool and I believe they would've just dialed it in, on the spot. But upon reviewing my base "stock" tune and a few logs, they found that I am missing some very important tables.. Friction torque tables and TB Airflow. Must haves for a big cam. As it turns out, Mopar Crate Harness ECMs lack these tables and depending on the year of the ECM, sublime ECM will be missing them as well. Blake just writes them over what is there and his.. and if the tables exist, they remain. HP believes that they might just be able to unlock them for me. Blake is also trying to find me a newer ECM to flash and I can just move my tune over and tweek those areas.. HP was kinda curious how it was being tuned without these tables. I'll leave it at that. After 21 attempts, I think Ryan is slowly backing away from this **** show.
Let's see.. what else? Oh! I did buy buy a Hotchkis front sway bar from a guy. He sent the mounts and said he'll bring the bar to Moparty and we'll slap it on. All sounds kinda sketchy but he told me to trust him haha. I went ahead and started mocking the brackets, so I can weld them up this weekend.
Lastly.. my AC has been working. Not freeze you out working, but working good enough.
Went on Power Tour last week and had a pretty good time. My daughters boyfriend (Bird) had decided, almost last minute, that he wanted to take his 85 W250. He had some things to knock off his list in a few weeks time but the biggest thing was to actually get out and drive it.. Which hadn't done much of. Alot of tinkering with his toy but he had only driven it maybe 50 miles since getting it, last year. He got it dialed in with odds and ends and put some miles on it before leaving. Pretty sure that he got his fill of driving it on PT haha. We ran into a guy at our hotel in Joliet with a beautiful 70 Challenger, that had been rear ended by a local. 3 cars involved and he was the only one to have insurance. We helped him remove his rear bumper, valance and pry the bodywork off the spring hangers.. was binding up pretty bad. In reality, the car was probably totaled.. but he'll put it back together. Waffled the springs, warped the quarters, doors were jacked and had frame damage. He was one of those guys that had a solid mind and accepted things for what they were. Reminds you that no matter how bad it is, it's not the end and you're still sucking air. This too shall pass. He gave me the bumper for a wall hanger.. had him sign and date it. Cool guy.. Dave Bruener.
All of my brake upgrade stuff came in a few weeks before PT but I held off doing it until I found some 15" wheels. Well, I finally found some yesterday (ironically, local). Picked up 4 15x7 with rings and centers for $450. Now I'm plagued with what tires/wheels I wanna run. Currently have 15x6.5 rears.. So, do I move those to the front for a very small stagger or go 15x7 on all 4 corners.. and then front tires.. Can I get away with 225/60s in the front without rubbing brake lines and metal. Rears are 245/60. It all gives my brain something to focus on.
Throughout the tour, I battled my tune, but the Dart never missed a beat. The highway driving was great, but he slower in-town cruising and waiting in lines was brutal. It's either idle or 1500 rpm.. alot of surging that had my neck sore before it was over. I stopped into the HP tuner booth, in Joliet and then again in Ft Wayne. Techs were very cool and I believe they would've just dialed it in, on the spot. But upon reviewing my base "stock" tune and a few logs, they found that I am missing some very important tables.. Friction torque tables and TB Airflow. Must haves for a big cam. As it turns out, Mopar Crate Harness ECMs lack these tables and depending on the year of the ECM, sublime ECM will be missing them as well. Blake just writes them over what is there and his.. and if the tables exist, they remain. HP believes that they might just be able to unlock them for me. Blake is also trying to find me a newer ECM to flash and I can just move my tune over and tweek those areas.. HP was kinda curious how it was being tuned without these tables. I'll leave it at that. After 21 attempts, I think Ryan is slowly backing away from this **** show.
Let's see.. what else? Oh! I did buy buy a Hotchkis front sway bar from a guy. He sent the mounts and said he'll bring the bar to Moparty and we'll slap it on. All sounds kinda sketchy but he told me to trust him haha. I went ahead and started mocking the brackets, so I can weld them up this weekend.
Lastly.. my AC has been working. Not freeze you out working, but working good enough.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
My vote is 7" wheels all around. There are plenty of tire size calculators online that can help you dial in the right size.
That D100 tow truck is awesome!!!
There's some shady people selling stuff online. You better be careful.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Not sure what your luck might be and how your suspension is set up, but I had to trim the lower front corner of my front fenders to run 225 width tires on my car (technically a 67). I have a pretty "unique" setup in that I'm basically running rims designed for FWD with a wheel spacer to get them back as close as I could to the sock track width, so I can't say for sure if real deal stock rims would fit any better without issues. I used to run 205s on the front (I think, it's been a while) with the 225s on the back with a spare set of 255 street slicks. When I cracked a rim lip (still no idea how that happened), I finally caved and cut the fenders so I could run the old 225 rear tires on the front and keep the street slicks on the back. Though that does give me the added benefit of having the same wheel and tires on all four corners now that I bought a new set and got rid of the street slicks. Makes it easier to carry a spare, though a full size one still takes up too much room in the trunk. I need to find a narrower tire that sits flush with the floor but has an acceptable OD so I won't burn out my posi if I had to put it on the rear. Worst case I guess I could always just put the spare on the front and move a front to the rear, but that's a lot of messing around to do on the side of the road.
I'm thinking the same. The tire calculators always drive nuts. I'll probably just go with 225/60.. Be about an inch shorter in the front. It had 225/70R14s all around when I first got it and I liked the look.
You talking about that flatbed? I love that thing in all of its hidiousnes lol. Bird found his crowd pretty quick and abandoned the Dart to go sit with those guys lol. Told him I didn't nerd a baby sitter.. Go hang out.
I'm as careful as a guy that's desperate for cut rate parts can be.. If you can't trust a podcaster.. Who can ya trust?!
I had 225/70r14s on all 4 corners when I first bought it and I don't recall any fender rubbing. I'm not beyond doing a little trimming, if I have to. Looking at the charts, the 225/60r15 is equal to the 225/70r14 with exception being sidewall height. So I might be OK.. If not, I figure it out just like every other damn curveball this thing has thrown at me.. Never ending saga.
Dart with 225/70r14s below.. I prefer the look over the current 215s
DionR
Well-Known Member
I detect an inside joke. 
What are your thoughts on the 8HP? Or still need to fix the tune before you can really say.
What are your thoughts on the 8HP? Or still need to fix the tune before you can really say.
Sadly, I just found out that Hankook does not have the 225/60 in the Kinergy, to match the rears.I detect an inside joke.
What are your thoughts on the 8HP? Or still need to fix the tune before you can really say.
Yea, there might be a little inside joke about a bald guy ;)
Love the 8HP even tho it shifts horribly at low speeds without the proper tables... Shifts are really close and you feel a drop, immediately after the shift. Get on the throttle a little or go full wot, it's a different animal. norma driving with 2.73s, it shifts outta 1st around 10-15mph and locks into 8th at 58... less if i let off a little, but it feels right. 1600ish around 70. I will say that there isn't a shift like it, when you're into it tho. Instant! You can hear the exhaust tone like POW, that was a shift, POW there's another..
With the current tune, it's really hurting my pride. Feels, sounds and looks janky af in town or driving through the neighborhood, which I do alot of. People probably thinking I'm trying to jump the tires off the ground or something. I've got a support ticket into HP, to see if they can add the missing tables. I'm not sure if there are hardware limitations to these ECMs or if it's all software. It's like I'm the only one to ever have this problem.. which is starting to feel pretty normal lol. I'm sure it'll get resolved, even if it means a newer ECM.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
That's kind of how I feel about my idle, all the more so after adding my A/C and the extra load it brings. Unfortunately I only have myself to blame about it though since it's my own tune, lol. I really just need to spend some quality time with a laptop and a couple gallons of gas to sit in the driveway and try to work it out. I've messed with some of my PID settings and gotten things better, but I think I need to do some more work on the fuel and ignition table first as it's really swinging the AFR around more than it used to and the closed loop idle control is just a band-aid. Happens the most when I'm in a drive thru or something like that with a lot of little throttle stabs and clutching in and out. Doesn't look very cool when you have to swap feet reel quick and panic stab the throttle while getting off the clutch and onto the brake with your other foot so you don't roll into the cars around you. Or when it just flat out dies because you didn't catch it. I'm also torn because I have a cam in the car and I'd like to keep the cam sound, but at the same time I'd like a "stable" idle. I've been trying to find the right closed loop settings that will let it have some rpm swing for the chop, but is sensitive enough to catch it when it dips too far.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Are you using the AC idle kick? I have a relay on my AC that goes to an input on the MS3. It will automatically add X amount of steps to the IAC when the compressor kicks on. I also have the idle advance table setup so the timing advances to keep it from killing. This hemi needs so little timing at idle, it must not be making any torque. The AC alone puts a decent load on it and without advancing the timing it would die.
Ironically..zero change in my idle when I kick the AC on.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Yes and no. I started with it originally, but I've since turned it off. In theory the PID settings on the closed loop idle should be able to catch the droop on their own and account for it, assuming the compressor doesn't hit so hard. I think that feature was added more for small engines that don't have much torque reserve. When the A/C hits it actually doesn't drop the rpm that hard, but you can definitely hear it load up and it makes the PID surge differently. Probably doesn't help that it switches on one of my electric fans as well, which can cause a noticeable load on their own just the same. I'm trying to get by with only running one though to limit the load hit. Two at once dumps something like 40A of startup current and 20A+ of running current to keep them going, which is a lot when the compressor is also throwing load at it.
It's more like at idle with no A/C I have a ~100 rpm range it likes to run in and float between with the cam and general nature of the engine with one level of rotating inertia. When the A/C comes on it will still idle at a similar rpm, but the rpm will drop faster when it dips because of the extra load and be a little lazier to return. I have it set to bump my rpm set point ~100 rpm to give it a little extra, but that doesn't help the actual load. I could crank the PID up to make it try to catch dips faster, but I'm not sure if that would cause oscillation without the extra load. I think my fuel and ignition mapping is where I need to start first though. I've done the trick in the past of a little extra timing when the rpm dips, but I think I might have gotten rid of some of that when I went to my "OEM" maps and I need to add it back. The way my AFR swings from 14.3 to 16+ is kind of pointing me that direction to start with. I kind of rushed getting a working idle tune when I did my latest tune, which really needs to be solid before you start messing with the PID idle settings.
Yeah, that has crossed my mind whenever I drive modern cars. It seems like they engage the A/C so much more seamlessly than the MS for some reason. I wonder if they actually ramp up the clutch voltage/current for a softer engagement or if they just have the idle sorted better. I think mine is more of a pitch change than an actual rpm change, but it's somewhat stark if you're paying attention. The MS A/C idle up adder would probably address some of that though. I probably don't need that many extra steps, I just need to play with it.
Hilarious!
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Eh, every system has its flaws I suppose. It's interesting looking at the different designs. I haven't personally dealt with a Holley setup, though it looks quite capable, if a bit "nickel and dime-y" when it comes to adding features from what I've heard. Looking through the stock tables on HP Tuners was wild, but that's also the difference between OEM level emissions/comfort tuning vs "aftermarket engine management". The OEM has tables upon tables with modifiers for everything to keep the engine running exactly where they want it as much as physically possible because they have to control it that tight for emissions and they have all the models and laboratory testing behind it to be able to predict how it will respond. Aftermarket systems have some of those features, but usually in a more "pick and choose" way and they have to be adaptable to a huge range of engines. I do like that the MS systems are open source at least and a lot of features have been added over the years that are just a firmware flash away to update, but the more I've tried to get "OEM level" running out of my car, the more I realize the limitations (both of the computer and myself).
I thought I had the car running real nice, then my dad drove it to see what I was talking about with my funny brake pedal and it felt like driving with someone who had never been in a manual before. I know a lot of that is just that I'm used to the car and the bite point and pedal stiffness and stuff like that and I'm sure he was trying to be really easy on it, but certainly moves the finish line on my tune down the road some more.
I thought I had the car running real nice, then my dad drove it to see what I was talking about with my funny brake pedal and it felt like driving with someone who had never been in a manual before. I know a lot of that is just that I'm used to the car and the bite point and pedal stiffness and stuff like that and I'm sure he was trying to be really easy on it, but certainly moves the finish line on my tune down the road some more.
We all have our little glitches and every system is different.. I'm just poking. Remember that the guy poking fun here, has has a sore neck from his glitch ;)
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Lol, no offense taken by any means. I'd still probably recommend the Megasquirt setup to anyone who asked me what I would suggest for an engine computer, at least if you wanted to change anything at all about the engine. If you truly just wanted to do a transplant and not touch anything then an OEM computer likely makes more senses. It would have its own hoops to jump through as far as being able to use it without all the other systems it normally wants to talk to, but you can't beat the way the engine runs with it.
I just like tinkering and changing stuff, and it was fun learning how to tune things and how different features worked. It's pretty wild to think of where my car started and where it is today.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
@Map63Vette Have you seen the AMP EFI Pro Evo + HC? It's their small packaged ECU with high current spark outputs so you don't have to use the quad spark module for "dumb" coils. It also has increased I/O over the old MS3X boxes. Very tempting to upgrade so I can add even more crap to it. You would have to use the Holley Dominator to be anywhere close to the amount of I/O, which would be well over $5K. It's only $1600 with a harness.
» MS3Pro EVO+ HC ECU
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