Leak at rear of oil pan, could it be the girdle?

[demon322]

Recently fired up my fresh built 512 and almost immediately noticed what looked to be a rear main leak. Not wanting to pull the engine again so soon, I decided to try to tackle it with the car on jack stands.

I went with the new style seal from fast fish this time. The install was pretty straightforward and it seems like a good product. I sealed everything back up and let it dry overnight.

The next night I filled with oil but did not fire the car. I came out the next morning to a puddle near the rear of the engine, and it looked to be leaking from 3 of the 4 bolt locations at the back of the pan. I removed those and put some thread sealant on and reinstalled, this time using a set of the oil pan rails I had bought in the meantime.

The next morning there is still some oil leaking, but it no longer looks to be coming from the rear bolts, but rather the rear corner of the pan.

So, my question is - how are you guys that run a girdle/windage tray/pan setup getting yours to seal?

I use 2 gaskets, but not one between the girdle and the block. Just girdle to tray, and tray to pan.

I think I just didn’t get the girdle sealed to the block well enough. I just used the sealer I had on hand (ultra gray.)

Before I take it back down to try one more time I was wondering what you guys were having luck with. Ultra black has been good for me in the past. I know some like ‘the right stuff’ also.

Thank you for reading, sorry so long winded.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

It wouldn't happen to be a Milodon Pan?

 

[demon322]

Yes sir it is. 440 source girdle, Milodon windage tray and pan.

 

[Heywodja]

Did you double check the 2-oil galley screw in plugs up by the cam?

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Yes sir it is. 440 source girdle, Milodon windage tray and pan.

6 years I fought an oil leak. Every week I would have a small puddle on the trailer floor. I swore it was the rear main. With the engine painted black and the gold pan I couldn't find the leak. Then I thought it was coming from the top and change the valve cover and gaskets and covers. Made a billet timing cover. Installed a evac system thinking it was crank case pressure.

The oil was all over in the bell housing and under the car.
After we tore the engine out to freshen it was sitting on an engine stand and got a puddle under it. I figured left over oil coming off the outside of the engine.

After cleaning the oil up on the floor. one week later there was another small puddle. Come to find there was a pin hole in the pan . You could not locate where the oil was coming from due to the gold pan and the gloss black engine.

I will never paint an engine black again and will always paint the gold pans. Now every new Milodon pan gets filled with Diesel and let them sit. Found another one after that on a customers engine new out of the box. Just something to always check. Who would think a new pan would have a pin hole. Both were Milodon.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Did you double check the 2-oil galley screw in plugs up by the cam?

View attachment 1716423578

I don't see how those could leak while the engine is not running.

 

[B3422w5]

I don't see how those could leak while the engine is not running.

Excellent my dear Watson, excellent

 

[71GSSDemon]

6 years I fought an oil leak. Every week I would have a small puddle on the trailer floor. I swore it was the rear main. With the engine painted black and the gold pan I couldn't find the leak. Then I thought it was coming from the top and change the valve cover and gaskets and covers. Made a billet timing cover. Installed a evac system thinking it was crank case pressure.

The oil was all over in the bell housing and under the car.
After we tore the engine out to freshen it was sitting on an engine stand and got a puddle under it. I figured left over oil coming off the outside of the engine.

After cleaning the oil up on the floor. one week later there was another small puddle. Come to find there was a pin hole in the pan . You could not locate where the oil was coming from due to the gold pan and the gloss black engine.

I will never paint an engine black again and will always paint the gold pans. Now every new Milodon pan gets filled with Diesel and let them sit. Found another one after that on a customers engine new out of the box. Just something to always check. Who would think a new pan would have a pin hole. Both were Milodon.

Something to try if this ever happens again. Many oils will fluoresce with a black light. Black light flashlights are inexpensive and will highlight the oils. At work, our oils glow blue. I can add an oil dye from the parts store and it will glow yellow/gold. Then you can see where old oil vs new oil is leaking. I've done it on my Demon before when there is a mess. Saves a lot of time and frustration.

This is an idea for OP as well.

 

[jbc426]

Are your pan bolts bottoming out in the block?

 

[RustyRatRod]

I tell you what I just got done doing. I'm putting my Ford 400 back together. I don't know what it is with these cork gaskets anymore, but they are so thin and so crappy that they split all to hell when you torque the bolts to even 5 LB FT. I just wasn't satisfied with it as the cork sides were all stickin out the sides from being split.....and I did NOT over torque them. So I pulled the pan back off, removed the cork sides, cleaned it all up good and put a good bead of RTV on the sides and joined it into the corners of the pan seals front and rear and put the pan back on. I bet that beeotch seals now. I'd put a one piece oil pan gasket on it, but nobody makes one.

 

[Heywodja]

I don't see how those could leak while the engine is not running.

I went through this in May.. always had a leak at the rear of the engine since day 1. I did two rear mains in the garage while the engine was installed (not fun). I finally gave in and took it to a shop, they also diagnosed it as a rear main seal and they replaced it.. it did not leak until the next day when there was a small puddle, which got gradually larger. I just gave up, and figured I would be stuck with it forever. I had a problem with the trans and had to pull it to replace the pump, when I saw the two rear galley plugs they were both wet. A simple test with an Allen wrench found both of them barely finger tight.
It looked like it leaked while running and just sitting as well. The new drivetrain is about 6 years old with about a hundred miles.

 

[demon322]

6 years I fought an oil leak. Every week I would have a small puddle on the trailer floor. I swore it was the rear main. With the engine painted black and the gold pan I couldn't find the leak. Then I thought it was coming from the top and change the valve cover and gaskets and covers. Made a billet timing cover. Installed a evac system thinking it was crank case pressure.

The oil was all over in the bell housing and under the car.
After we tore the engine out to freshen it was sitting on an engine stand and got a puddle under it. I figured left over oil coming off the outside of the engine.

After cleaning the oil up on the floor. one week later there was another small puddle. Come to find there was a pin hole in the pan . You could not locate where the oil was coming from due to the gold pan and the gloss black engine.

I will never paint an engine black again and will always paint the gold pans. Now every new Milodon pan gets filled with Diesel and let them sit. Found another one after that on a customers engine new out of the box. Just something to always check. Who would think a new pan would have a pin hole. Both were Milodon.

That sounds like a nightmare chasing that down. And funny enough my block is painted black with the gold pan of course. I don’t think that the leak is coming from the pan itself just based on location but I’ll give it a good look when I pull it to make sure.

 

[demon322]

Are your pan bolts bottoming out in the block?

I thought about this as a possibility, especially the two that go into the rear main cap so I bought some that were shorter but that didn’t help the issue. The pan has studs down the sides but bolts front and rear as that’s what came in the 440 source kit

 

[demon322]

I tell you what I just got done doing. I'm putting my Ford 400 back together. I don't know what it is with these cork gaskets anymore, but they are so thin and so crappy that they split all to hell when you torque the bolts to even 5 LB FT. I just wasn't satisfied with it as the cork sides were all stickin out the sides from being split.....and I did NOT over torque them. So I pulled the pan back off, removed the cork sides, cleaned it all up good and put a good bead of RTV on the sides and joined it into the corners of the pan seals front and rear and put the pan back on. I bet that beeotch seals now. I'd put a one piece oil pan gasket on it, but nobody makes one.

Sounds like you should be leak-free this time! I used the ‘crush proof’ milodon gaskets that are one piece for big blocks. I can’t be positive but I think girdle to windage tray and tray to pan are sealing ok. I’m afraid my problem is Girdle to block where I don’t run a gasket, just sealant.

 

[demon322]

I went through this in May.. always had a leak at the rear of the engine since day 1. I did two rear mains in the garage while the engine was installed (not fun). I finally gave in and took it to a shop, they also diagnosed it as a rear main seal and they replaced it.. it did not leak until the next day when there was a small puddle, which got gradually larger. I just gave up, and figured I would be stuck with it forever. I had a problem with the trans and had to pull it to replace the pump, when I saw the two rear galley plugs they were both wet. A simple test with an Allen wrench found both of them barely finger tight.
It looked like it leaked while running and just sitting as well. The new drivetrain is about 6 years old with about a hundred miles.

I sure hope it isn’t coming from there but I honestly didn’t check them before the install. The builder could have possibly forgot to do a ‘final tight’ on them but usually he’s very thorough.

I want to try to get it to seal one more time with the engine in the car, but if it still leaks I will pull the engine back out to put it on a stand and if I do that I will check those plugs for sure.

 

[demon322]

Thanks all for your replies.

I think I will try this one more time laying under the car. I was thinking ultra black between block and girdle, and gaskets between the girdle and tray and tray and pan. Wish me luck

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I tell you what I just got done doing. I'm putting my Ford 400 back together. I don't know what it is with these cork gaskets anymore, but they are so thin and so crappy that they split all to hell when you torque the bolts to even 5 LB FT. I just wasn't satisfied with it as the cork sides were all stickin out the sides from being split.....and I did NOT over torque them. So I pulled the pan back off, removed the cork sides, cleaned it all up good and put a good bead of RTV on the sides and joined it into the corners of the pan seals front and rear and put the pan back on. I bet that beeotch seals now. I'd put a one piece oil pan gasket on it, but nobody makes one.

Here is the trick. If using a sealant or just putting them on dry the gaskets will squeeze out at the bolts while being compressed.

The trick is to dry the pan. Use contact cement and glue the gasket to the pan . On big blocks glue the second gasket for the windage tray to the top of the tray. With the gaskets glued in place they will squash but won't push out. Remember to always tap the holes flat on the pan.

Look at this gasket install Can't get any tighter then this. He had 4 gaskets and RTV with a windage tray and it still leaked. LOL

 

[Heywodja]

I sure hope it isn’t coming from there but I honestly didn’t check them before the install. The builder could have possibly forgot to do a ‘final tight’ on them but usually he’s very thorough.

I want to try to get it to seal one more time with the engine in the car, but if it still leaks I will pull the engine back out to put it on a stand and if I do that I will check those plugs for sure.

Me too, I could not get it to stop leaking. It leaked while the engine was running or not. I have 65-75 psi oil at cruise and 35-40 at idle.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

Here is the trick. If using a sealant or just putting them on dry the gaskets will squeeze out at the bolts while being compressed.

The trick is to dry the pan. Use contact cement and glue the gasket to the pan . On big blocks glue the second gasket for the windage tray to the top of the tray. With the gaskets glued in place they will squash but won't push out. Remember to always tap the holes flat on the pan.

Look at this gasket install Can't get any tighter then this. He had 4 gaskets and RTV with a windage tray and it still leaked. LOL

View attachment 1716424671

That pan is f'd up, no wonder it doesn't seal.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

I seal my windage tray then seal my pan to the windage tray., it Never leaks ever.

 

[chorty55]

Now every new Milodon pan gets filled with Diesel and let them sit. Found another one after that on a customers engine new out of the box. Just something to always check. Who would think a new pan would have a pin hole. Both were Milodon.

they make dye check....wipes clean with alcohol. Then you can cleanly sting it with a TIG torch...

Granted milodon should of done the same, but within 10-15 mins, you can check for leaks, and fix them?