Mystery of the smoking nuts

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Take it for a ride long enough for the rear brakes to heat up and bind. Jack the rear up and see if the wheels turn easily. If not, crack open one of the bleeders and then see if the wheel turns easier. If the brake fluid squirts out, there is a fluid blockage somewhere in the hydraulic system keeping the fluid from returning to the master cylinder. If the fluid just dribbles out, it isn't a hydraulic problem, but something else.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
The rear brakes are the first to apply and the last to release. Sounds like your pedal is not releasing all the way. could be and after market master and the nole in the piston is not deep enough for that length push rod. Loosen the master cylinder up and slide a 1/8 shim behind each side and tighten it and take it for a ride, Just a test, Seen this in the past where it was the push rod was to long for the master cylinder. The hotter the brakes get the tighter they get.
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I had that issue once. Made an alum. spacer.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
The last time I asked about getting the shoes arched to the drums the guy had no clue what I was talking about.

All the good friction houses in my area are long gone. It’s a shame.
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When I was in auto shop back in 80-83, we had a brake shoe riveter and grinder and relined shoes and ground them regularly. Mr. Lovett (RIP) said many times we would look back on that fondly, as it was really a lost art then. I tell you the truth about it though, being a mechanic at all is really a lost art now. People don't fix cars much anymore. They trade them in.
 
With today's labor and parts costs, sometimes the vehicle just isn't worth the repairs.
 
cudamark said:
With today's labor and parts costs, sometimes the vehicle just isn't worth the repairs.
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Correct. When you buy any new vehicle, you are upside down off the bat even if you pay cash because of that. People don't think. As an example. Our 2004 Ford Escape's transmission went out at "I guess" about 140K. That was a $2500 transmission in a car with a trade in value of about $900 and it's in good shape and is even a 4WD. Was that a "fiscally" smart decision to repair that car? No, but it's the newest vehicle we own and it's been a really goodun. I could have just let it sit and go to hell, but that's even more stupid. This was approaching about ten years ago, I guess this happened.......and the car STILL doesn't have 200K on it yet.

How many people with "fiscal" sense would pay 10K or more for an engine replacement on a car they paid 30K for new that was not under warranty? Not many, I bet. Back when our old Mopars were new, People didn't just "give up" on them as much as now, because repair costs didn't take up so much of the budget. I know you can account for cost of living changes and "all that" but it's still exponentially more costly now than it was then. No cell phone service. No internet and cable or satellite service and on and on. There's way "more stuff" to spend money on now and the costs are just SO great. My best friend's a local cop. He runs a landscaping/tree cutting business during the days. He pays for his business and personal phones and services for his business and his family. He recently showed me a 400 plus buck phone bill. Not me, brother. People are nuts brainwashed thinking they need that crap. The 1970s is calling us back. Hard.
 
Kendog 170 said:
That was 10 years ago. My wife and I both drive 2004 cars today! They are our newest vehicles. lol
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Yup. It's our newest as well. We've been looking at the new little Ford Maverick trucks. We MAY try to get one possibly in the next year. They have really good reviews and I know a few people with them. We both have older family members who live out of state and may have the need to make a long trip. I'm sure the Escape can make it, but it wouldn't hurt a thing to have something new. I wish Dodge would wake up and make another small truck. They actually are planning on the Dakota again. Just not in the US.
 
When a guy pays $50,000 for a **** box jelly bean new car and 6 years later, the trans goes out, a replacement trans is $3000, and his car is worth $2500. Planned obsolescence.
OK!!! Time to trade it in for a NEW $60,000 **** box jelly bean car!!!!!! :BangHead: :BangHead: :thumbsup::steering:
 
barbee6043 said:
When a guy pays $50,000 for a **** box jelly bean new car and 6 years later, the trans goes out, a replacement trans is $3000, and his car is worth $2500. Planned obsolescence.
OK!!! Time to trade it in for a NEW $60,000 **** box jelly bean car!!!!!! :BangHead: :BangHead: :thumbsup::steering:
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Makes about as much sense as Russian roulette.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Makes about as much sense as Russian roulette.
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It makes all the sense in the world for the car manufacturing companies!!! But. Just no sense for US! and, why is it that every new car model to come out will quickly show up with an "engineering" issue?? Some never to be fixed by the company.

Or makes as much sense in the fact that we are forced to by sub standard parts from China.
 
I really enjoy all the new cars how they don't have an automatic trans dipstick anymore. And the "say" the fluid is lifetime. Well it is. Never needs changed, trans dies early.

But if you do change it the trans will last longer.

The sheep believe this bull doogy dodo-dodo.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
Yup. It's our newest as well. We've been looking at the new little Ford Maverick trucks. We MAY try to get one possibly in the next year. They have really good reviews and I know a few people with them. We both have older family members who live out of state and may have the need to make a long trip. I'm sure the Escape can make it, but it wouldn't hurt a thing to have something new. I wish Dodge would wake up and make another small truck. They actually are planning on the Dakota again. Just not in the US.
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I almost pulled the trigger on the 1st year Maverick special they had. Then I thought 1st year may have issues and held off. I hear there pretty decent though Toyota was supposed to come out with a small truck this year for under 25K but Toyota says there so busy they can't squeeze it in.
 
back to the brakes
do those early brake shoe retainers, cone spring and square foot backplate hook thingy, hold the shoes onto the back plate well enough.

i have 9 inch brakes i rebuilt them with a mix n match of parts from rockauto raybestos if in stock and delco for the rest i.e the mid or higher price stuff

when i put the main springs onto the brake shoes they were so strong that they pulled the shoes out like wings i.e at the mid point of each shoe there was a gap between it an the back plate and no way would the friction material run true with the drum surface

i put it down to crap parts and swapped to 73-onwards pin cup spring hold downs.

you have to buy a bag of washers to make the head of the pin big enough not to pull through the large holes in the back plate but it solved my problem.


either the hold down cone springs or the main springs for the shoes were i presume not to OEM specification or i was sent the wrong stuff. would not be the first time Rockauto provided hours of "amusement" and an excuse for foul language

but you do need the shoes to be held flat to the contact points on the back plate

2 styles of shoe as well. some have a swaged over edge for the contact point, nice and smooth
some have a hard cut edge for the contact point (quite rubbish in my view)
the former would appear to be better as i don't see them wearing as much of a groove or hanging up....

and obviously you need to get the shoes in the right position
leading shoe , front, short friction material
secondary shoe, long friction material, back
i think.....! i always check the book due to knowing i know this, but then doubting myself, and of course with no book to hand i'm doing that again.

but basically you can get the lot wrong 4 shoes and 4 positions to choose from

and you have the vague differences between duo servo on early A body and not duo servo on later. can't see much difference myself, but i believe it exists and the change was early 70s it just a variation in how much shove the leading shoe can give to the secondary shoe when the brakes are on but how this was implemented and applied is lost on me, mine are early brakes and i have nothing to compare to.

Dave
 
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Kendog 170 said:
I almost pulled the trigger on the 1st year Maverick special they had. Then I thought 1st year may have issues and held off. I hear there pretty decent though Toyota was supposed to come out with a small truck this year for under 25K but Toyota says there so busy they can't squeeze it in.
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My wife bought a first year Maverick, waited 6 months for it. 6 months later she wrecked it and totaled it. The insurance gave her more than she paid for it. For the time she had it was a good truck.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Correct. When you buy any new vehicle, you are upside down off the bat even if you pay cash because of that. People don't think. As an example. Our 2004 Ford Escape's transmission went out at "I guess" about 140K. That was a $2500 transmission in a car with a trade in value of about $900 and it's in good shape and is even a 4WD. Was that a "fiscally" smart decision to repair that car? No, but it's the newest vehicle we own and it's been a really goodun
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I look at it this way...

2500 or 30,000 both will get you 10 more years of driving.

I go for 2500


On a side note...
Trans rebuild cira 1981 (dad pulled the trans in the garage and delivered it to the trans shop)
Screenshot_20251018-082918.png



Labor was cheaper back then
Screenshot_20251018-082910.png


Converting 1981 dollars for 2025
Screenshot_20251018-083114.png
 
Korys_thing said:
Got a car that had strip of deep wear in rear driver drum. Recently replaced both rear drums, shoes, and spring sets only to have it start smoking on me.

3 days back, took it to a brake shop and they said nothing looked wrong, they went over all 4 brakes, adjusted, and bled. For the green light to drive and they felt good.

Got hot yesterday. Took apart hub and checked the bearings and they seem good. Backed off the brakes a good amount. Still getting a weird rub

Drove it today, the more I drove the more I felt them start drag. Pulled over and measured the temp of the lugnuts and bearing hubs. 291 degrees on BOTH rear sides. Front brakes a cool 110.

Driver side rear wheel free spins for half a rotation and then drags (almost needs two hands to turn) for half a rotation. I think the new shoes/drum are also trying to wear a line in the same spot as the old ones. I can’t for the life of me see anything warped and can’t see any obvious rub spots on the shoes. Been through at least 2 brake shops and countless car folks and nobody had any ideas.

Help! What do I possibly look at next?

-wheel bearings seem pretty good. Even if one was bad would it heat up both sides?

-any common reasons for a gouge like the one in the photo? Hard to tell but it’s pretty deep.

-included a photo of my brake shoe set up. Does that little gap on the left of the pin tell me anything? I can’t get it to sit any more flush than that. The only spring I can’t find a replacement for is the one attached to the bar going to the ebrake, couldn’t that be messing things up this bad?

-is it possible that the back plate or hub is warped and causing this? Why are both my back hub assemblies so hot?

I feel like this this has its back wheels up in the air more than on the ground these days.

View attachment 1716466591

View attachment 1716466592
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From what I see the Park-Brake lever is way too far forward, for new shoes.

I suggest to unhook the levers from the cables, and drive them both as far back as they go, leave them disconnected, then testdrive it.

If that fixes it, then figure out why they were there.
 
Rear brake hose collapsed
Pump up the brake when its tight
Loosen the brake line at the master if brakes free up then master
Then move down the line
If your brake is tight crack a bleeder if frees up both you know its a hydraulic problem...
Your parking brake is a little tight
Your cross bar should be a little loose when the brakes are adjusted
 
Update: got a list 21 items long. Made it to…about 4 of them. At this point I’m thinking about buy a ship anchor to throw out the window when I need to stop.

-Exterior check of the brake lines look to be in good shape, no noticeable failures. The rear brake Tee (breather? Axle vent?) is pretty beat up and loose but not 100% what I should be looking for there.

-Cut 1/8inch gasket for the MC because the pushrod seemed like it wasn’t releasing all the way. Still has a little bit of stoppage at the end. Not sure if it’s normal but it’s releasing as far as it’s going to. Maybe there is an adjustment on the pushrod spring I can make to get rid of that.

-took apart the driver side rear brake again, reseated it to make sure it’s on the backplate, adjusted the parking brake. Still had crazy drag. Switched back to the old pre-gouged drum. Less drag but both sides still heating.

- wanted to do some more driving tests but now back to shedding oil every drive and trying not to catch on fire or smoke myself out. Back to fixing that again tomorrow.

Trying to avoid anything that will mean I have to bleed the brakes again but I’m sure fluid replacement and testing bleeders/connections will be coming soon
 
Last brake issue I had was the rear soft hose at rear axle. It was sorta plugged. Yea I had changed out everything to new except that!!!!!! Just because the rubber brake hose looks good, maybe not!:BangHead::thumbsup:
 
barbee6043 said:
Last brake issue I had was the rear soft hose at rear axle. It was sorta plugged. Yea I had changed out everything to new except that!!!!!! Just because the rubber brake hose looks good, maybe not!:BangHead::thumbsup:
Click to expand...
They will collapse inside
Let brake fuild flow one way (under pressure)
And not return
 
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