Big Block Exhaust Manifold Comparison?

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Canucklehead

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Has there ever been a dyno comparison between the A-body “super restrictive because, well, look at them” exhaust manifolds and the B-body “look at me, I sweep all of the way to the back” manifolds? You would think it would be easy for one of the magazines to do on a dyno. EVERYBODY criticizes the A-body manifolds but most of the critics have never owned a big block A-body.
 
What is the power rating of a 383 commando or magnum in a 68 barracuda or dart? Vs that of a 68 383 road runner. That’s the difference in performance. About 35 horsepower if memory serves
 
I know Jim Laroy said they tested HP vs stock manifolds and literally found zero difference. I would imagine that holds true for all the HP manifolds. I've also seen it said elsewhere.
 

What is the power rating of a 383 commando or magnum in a 68 barracuda or dart? Vs that of a 68 383 road runner. That’s the difference in performance. About 35 horsepower if memory serves
Ratings for A-bodies were 280 in 67, 300 in 68, and 330 in 69. But ratings are for the advertising department, I want to know reality.
 
What is the power rating of a 383 commando or magnum in a 68 barracuda or dart? Vs that of a 68 383 road runner. That’s the difference in performance. About 35 horsepower if memory serves
I own a 69 M-code GTS and all of the road tests that I’ve seen for them show 375 horsepower, same as any 69 440 HP.
 
I assume they were stamped HP but I’ve never had a matching numbers car, just seen the advertising.
Normally, the HP engines were zero deck height (or close) and had the larger (1.74) exhaust valves, I THINK. 280 and even 300 seems like kinda low figures.
 
I think Rusty is correct...there won't be any difference. Those ratings were all over the place depending on marketing, sales and model selection. The 383's HP really meant the build had a 4bbl, windage tray or other such accessories. They published all manner marketing ploys like 383's got 440 heads. Some A bodies had 383's stamped HP and some did not.
 
Ratings for A-bodies were 280 in 67, 300 in 68, and 330 in 69. But ratings are for the advertising department, I want to know reality.
I think the reality is that this manifold will choke the **** out of the engine and easily make it lose 30 horsepower but I can’t say for sure…

IMG_6531.png
 
I think the reality is that this manifold will choke the **** out of the engine and easily make it lose 30 horsepower but I can’t say for sure…

View attachment 1716481058
People often forget one thing. The cylinders aren't firing at the same time. It's not like that's not TONS of room for one cylinder to fire at the time. You're working with pulses here. Dissect one and you'll see there's a good bit of room there.
 
I think the reality is that this manifold will choke the **** out of the engine and easily make it lose 30 horsepower but I can’t say for sure…

View attachment 1716481058
There were different manifold casting numbers in 69 due to clearance for the new-for-69 availability of power steering, so the extra 30 horsepower between 68 and 69 is marketing to me. And it is a zero horsepower difference between a 69 383 4 barrel in a Satellite or Coronet 500 and an A-body, the Roadrunner/Superbee 383 is on its own though at 335. The manifolds in the picture are M-code 440 manifolds, which are still rated at 375 HP.
 
A 1964 383 two barrel was given a factory hp rating of 305 with a two barrel carb, .390 lift cam and single exhaust.

A 67 A body 383 was given a 280 hp rating with 516 heads and 1.60 exhaust valves, a 256/260 duration cam with .425/.437 lift, low rise intake and a small AFB four barrel plus DUAL EXHAUST.

A 68 A body 383 got a higher rise intake, AVS carb, 906 heads with 1.74 exhaust valves, same cam as 67. HP rating was 300.

A 69 A body 383 got all the 68 stuff plus the hi-po 383 and 440 cam with 268/276 duration, and .450/.465 lift. HP rating was 330.

A 69 A body 440 got essentially all of the 383 A body stuff only with 57 more cubic inches. HP rating was 375 - same as B body hi-po 440s.

A 67 B body 383 was given a 325 hp rating, same engine as in the A body except for the exhaust manifolds. Want to see how much better the 67 B body manifolds were? Here you go (A body top, B body bottom):

1763795260095.jpeg


By the way, here is an A body 383 driver's side manifold compared to a 340 driver's side manifold. Remember, the 383 got a 2.25 inch pipe coming off it, the 340 got something like an inch and 7/8, PLUS is had a huge dent in it to clear the torsion bar.

1763795351948.jpeg


Now, because the early A body 383's had fewer rated hp than the later ones, many assume the later A body manifold was better. Well, I have one of each. The later A body manifolds were designed to clear power steering, not gain horsepower. Look at them side by side. The late manifolds are flatter (narrower) than the early ones to go around the steering box. The late manifolds also make a sharper turn to go down to the exhaust pipe flange.

Here, late top, early bottom.

1763796524118.jpeg


Here, early left, late right.

1763796548788.jpeg


I haven't flowed these two manifolds, or dyno tested them on a running engine, but the early ones sure look to me like they would flow better.

One more thing, the non-hi po B body 383s were rated at 325 hp in 67, 330 in 68-69. None had the hi-po cam. Note that the B body 330 horse 383 is NOT the same as the 69 A body 383. The non-hipo B body 383s in 68-69 had the standard cam, the A body 383s in 69 got the good Road Runner/GTX cams.

Note also, that the big cam was supposedly only 5 horsepower better than the standard cam in the B body 383 (330 vs. 335), but 25 hp better in a B or C body 440 (350 vs. 375) and 30 hp better in an A body 383 (300 vs. 330)

One more thing about that 280 hp rating in the 67 A body 383s. Hot Rod Magazine put a B body 383 on an engine dyno. Supposed to have 325 hp; they got 280.

And while most contemporary road tests showed the 383 A body running low fifteens in the quarter, Super Stock and Drag Illustrated got theirs to run 14.70s just by shifting manually at 5500 instead of letting it shift at 4200 in drive. (Nothing special about the governor in A body 383 Torqueflites.)

All of the contemporary road tests were skeptical of the 67 A body 383's hp rating or the claim that it lost 45 hp because of the so-called restrictive exhaust system. And really - is there any way its exhaust manifolds could be that bad? Or so bad that they lost 25 hp compared to a 64 two barrel, dinky cammed, single exhaust 383?

C'mon folks. Back in the fifties and sixties, the manufacturers all played games with their horsepower ratings. A 58 Ford FE 352 that was supposed to have 300 gross hp but only made 200 on a dyno? A 67 Mopar 383 that was supposed to have 325 gross hp, but only made 280 on a dyno? And there are many more examples. FACTORY RATINGS IN THIS ERA WERE NOT GOSPEL

OK, rant over.





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A 1964 383 two barrel was given a factory hp rating of 305 with a two barrel carb, .390 lift cam and single exhaust.

A 67 A body 383 was given a 280 hp rating with 516 heads and 1.60 exhaust valves, a 256/260 duration cam with .425/.437 lift, low rise intake and a small AFB four barrel plus DUAL EXHAUST.

A 68 A body 383 got a higher rise intake, AVS carb, 906 heads with 1.74 exhaust valves, same cam as 67. HP rating was 300.

A 69 A body 383 got all the 68 stuff plus the hi-po 383 and 440 cam with 268/276 duration, and .450/.465 lift. HP rating was 330.

A 69 A body 440 got essentially all of the 383 A body stuff only with 57 more cubic inches. HP rating was 375 - same as B body hi-po 440s.

A 67 B body 383 was given a 325 hp rating, same engine as in the A body except for the exhaust manifolds. Want to see how much better the 67 B body manifolds were? Here you go (A body top, B body bottom):

View attachment 1716481118

By the way, here is an A body 383 driver's side manifold compared to a 340 driver's side manifold. Remember, the 383 got a 2.25 inch pipe coming off it, the 340 got something like an inch and 7/8, PLUS is had a huge dent in it to clear the torsion bar.

View attachment 1716481119

Now, because the early A body 383's had fewer rated hp than the later ones, many assume the later A body manifold was better. Well, I have one of each. The later A body manifolds were designed to clear power steering, not gain horsepower. Look at them side by side. The late manifolds are flatter (narrower) than the early ones to go around the steering box. The late manifolds also make a sharper turn to go down to the exhaust pipe flange.

Here, late top, early bottom.

View attachment 1716481121

Here, early left, late right.

View attachment 1716481122

I haven't flowed these two manifolds, or dyno tested them on a running engine, but the early ones sure look to me like they would flow better.

One more thing, the non-hi po B body 383s were rated at 325 hp in 67, 330 in 68-69. None had the hi-po cam. Note that the B body 330 horse 383 is NOT the same as the 69 A body 383. The non-hipo B body 383s in 68-69 had the standard cam, the A body 383s in 69 got the good Road Runner/GTX cams.

Note also, that the big cam was supposedly only 5 horsepower better than the standard cam in the 383 (330 vs. 335), but 25 hp better in a 440 (350 vs. 375) and 30 hp better in an A body 383 (300 vs. 330)

One more thing about that 280 hp rating in the 67 A body 383s. Hot Rod Magazine put a B body 383 on an engine dyno. Supposed to have 325 hp; they got 280.

And while most contemporary road tests showed the 383 A body running low fifteens in the quarter, Super Stock and Drag Illustrated got theirs to run 14.70s just by shifting manually at 5500 instead of letting it shift at 4200 in drive. (Nothing special about the governor in A body 383 Torqueflites.)

All of the contemporary road tests were skeptical of the 67 A body 383's hp rating or the claim that it lost 45 hp because of the so-called restrictive exhaust system. And really - is there any way its exhaust manifolds could be that bad? Or so bad that they lost 25 hp compared to a 64 single exhaust, two barrel, dinky cammed, single exhaust 383?

C'mon folks. Back in the fifties and sixties, the manufacturers all played games with their horsepower ratings. A 58 Ford FE 352 that was supposed to have 300 gross hp but only made 200 on a dyno? A 67 Mopar 383 that was supposed to have 325 gross hp, but only made 280 on a dyno? And there are many more examples. FACTORY RATINGS IN THIS ERA WERE NOT GOSPEL

OK, rant over.





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Thank u very much! Kim
 
A 1964 383 two barrel was given a factory hp rating of 305 with a two barrel carb, .390 lift cam and single exhaust.

A 67 A body 383 was given a 280 hp rating with 516 heads and 1.60 exhaust valves, a 256/260 duration cam with .425/.437 lift, low rise intake and a small AFB four barrel plus DUAL EXHAUST.

A 68 A body 383 got a higher rise intake, AVS carb, 906 heads with 1.74 exhaust valves, same cam as 67. HP rating was 300.

A 69 A body 383 got all the 68 stuff plus the hi-po 383 and 440 cam with 268/276 duration, and .450/.465 lift. HP rating was 330.

A 69 A body 440 got essentially all of the 383 A body stuff only with 57 more cubic inches. HP rating was 375 - same as B body hi-po 440s.

A 67 B body 383 was given a 325 hp rating, same engine as in the A body except for the exhaust manifolds. Want to see how much better the 67 B body manifolds were? Here you go (A body top, B body bottom):

View attachment 1716481118

By the way, here is an A body 383 driver's side manifold compared to a 340 driver's side manifold. Remember, the 383 got a 2.25 inch pipe coming off it, the 340 got something like an inch and 7/8, PLUS is had a huge dent in it to clear the torsion bar.

View attachment 1716481119

Now, because the early A body 383's had fewer rated hp than the later ones, many assume the later A body manifold was better. Well, I have one of each. The later A body manifolds were designed to clear power steering, not gain horsepower. Look at them side by side. The late manifolds are flatter (narrower) than the early ones to go around the steering box. The late manifolds also make a sharper turn to go down to the exhaust pipe flange.

Here, late top, early bottom.

View attachment 1716481121

Here, early left, late right.

View attachment 1716481122

I haven't flowed these two manifolds, or dyno tested them on a running engine, but the early ones sure look to me like they would flow better.

One more thing, the non-hi po B body 383s were rated at 325 hp in 67, 330 in 68-69. None had the hi-po cam. Note that the B body 330 horse 383 is NOT the same as the 69 A body 383. The non-hipo B body 383s in 68-69 had the standard cam, the A body 383s in 69 got the good Road Runner/GTX cams.

Note also, that the big cam was supposedly only 5 horsepower better than the standard cam in the 383 (330 vs. 335), but 25 hp better in a 440 (350 vs. 375) and 30 hp better in an A body 383 (300 vs. 330)

One more thing about that 280 hp rating in the 67 A body 383s. Hot Rod Magazine put a B body 383 on an engine dyno. Supposed to have 325 hp; they got 280.

And while most contemporary road tests showed the 383 A body running low fifteens in the quarter, Super Stock and Drag Illustrated got theirs to run 14.70s just by shifting manually at 5500 instead of letting it shift at 4200 in drive. (Nothing special about the governor in A body 383 Torqueflites.)

All of the contemporary road tests were skeptical of the 67 A body 383's hp rating or the claim that it lost 45 hp because of the so-called restrictive exhaust system. And really - is there any way its exhaust manifolds could be that bad? Or so bad that they lost 25 hp compared to a 64 single exhaust, two barrel, dinky cammed, single exhaust 383?

C'mon folks. Back in the fifties and sixties, the manufacturers all played games with their horsepower ratings. A 58 Ford FE 352 that was supposed to have 300 gross hp but only made 200 on a dyno? A 67 Mopar 383 that was supposed to have 325 gross hp, but only made 280 on a dyno? And there are many more examples. FACTORY RATINGS IN THIS ERA WERE NOT GOSPEL

OK, rant over.





.


Most thorough reply I’ve read in a long time.

Thanks!
 
People often forget one thing. The cylinders aren't firing at the same time. It's not like that's not TONS of room for one cylinder to fire at the time. You're working with pulses here. Dissect one and you'll see there's a good bit of room there.
True, but if a motor was spinning 5000 rpm that would mean any given cylinder will fire about 41 times per second. 4 cylinders on that side of the engine would be 164 firings per second. Seems like a a lot of exhaust to ram through that reduced orfice. My math might be messed up but the idea is that it’s ALOT of time per second per cylinder?

Regardless the op doesn’t want to hear that I think it would be less power and others have said they noticed no change in performance, so I’m out! Haha.
 
True, but if a motor was spinning 5000 rpm that would mean any given cylinder will fire about 41 times per second. 4 cylinders on that side of the engine would be 164 firings per second. Seems like a a lot of exhaust to ram through that reduced orfice. My math might be messed up but the idea is that it’s ALOT of time per second per cylinder?

Regardless the op doesn’t want to hear that I think it would be less power and others have said they noticed no change in performance, so I’m out! Haha.
I’m just asked about actual information, not guessing and assumptions.
 
You seem to already know by all the road tests you’ve seen and read, so isn’t that good enough? You could always rear wheel dyno your car?
Good luck


I own a 69 M-code GTS and all of the road tests that I’ve seen for them show 375 horsepower, same as any 69 440 HP.
 
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You seem to already know by all the road tests you’ve seen and read, so isn’t that good enough? You could always rear wheel dyno your car?
Good luck
No, it’s not good enough. I’ve never seen any tests that compare the A-body and B-body manifolds, if you can point one out that would be fantastic. Which is the whole point to me asking. And me knowing how much rear wheel HP my car makes doesn’t tell me a thing about manifold comparison.
 
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