**600hp sbm block limit? Or is it bs!!**

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MOPARMAGA said:
same dude is going to put 900 HP out of a 230 casting 400-512
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He needs one of these
DSC_1439.jpg
 
Newbomb Turk said:
It’s not caution. It’s seeing the distress in these engines when they come back in.

I get it. Turbo guys get away with a lot. NA is clearly different from a turbo. And a roots blower is different than a turbo.

Im not saying they fail at *** power. What I’m saying is looking at blocks for 40 years you can see what happens when the power (NA) goes up, especially when rpm goes up. They are under distress. The main caps are moving around all over the place. The main bearings show different wear patterns because the block is twisting around. Stud girdles and that type of “fix” isn’t really a fix. Do guys make power using them? Yes. I’ve used them. But they never fixed a weak block.

What I find interesting is your comment that a filled block exacerbates detonation. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that.

Do you know what causes a filled block to be more detonation prone.
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I hear you. I take it you are a professional engine builder. With that said you don't know what abuse the end user is doing to it. Also there has been a lot of advancement in fuels and fuel/timing management over the years. My nitrous car makes 650 on the motor at 8 grand and gets knocked over the head with a 250 shot on the starting line (no nitrous controller) and has had hundreds of passes and is over 20 years old. I build my own engines and I am very careful with temperature, fuel, and timing. This is my key to success. I do run a Ritter block now because I am making over 1500 at the wheel now.

The block fill puts more heat in the cylinder and that can send a motor over the edge into detonation. Personally I have never filled a block or run a girdle. I do run aftermarket main caps though which might be why I don't see cap walk. Back in the 90’s I made four digit power with a stock block and stock 340 forged crank that lived on for over 300 passes. I would think if I was to break a block it would be in the nitrous car.
Newbomb Turk said:
For sure. A totaled car and possible injuries or death is far more expensive than a race block.
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A diaper goes a long way in prevention. I am sad to see a car destroyed for any reason. That has to be a crushing blow. Thats why I started running diapers long before they were required. Any engine can send a rod out the pan and is actually more likely with an aftermarket block because people feel they can “turn it up” and detonate that motor too which can result in a broken rod. Thats the reason why I didn’t O-ring my Ritter. The head gasket is a fusible link, which I have never blown a head gasket.
1bad360duster said:
Was there no diaper on this car either?
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That was my thought but I felt it was irrelevant but since you said it, it makes sense. I also run my overflow to the trunk so if it boils over it is behind the tire.
 
turbodart68 said:
I hear you. I take it you are a professional engine builder. With that said you don't know what abuse the end user is doing to it. Also there has been a lot of advancement in fuels and fuel/timing management over the years. My nitrous car makes 650 on the motor at 8 grand and gets knocked over the head with a 250 shot on the starting line (no nitrous controller) and has had hundreds of passes and is over 20 years old. I build my own engines and I am very careful with temperature, fuel, and timing. This is my key to success. I do run a Ritter block now because I am making over 1500 at the wheel now.

The block fill puts more heat in the cylinder and that can send a motor over the edge into detonation. Personally I have never filled a block or run a girdle. I do run aftermarket main caps though which might be why I don't see cap walk. Back in the 90’s I made four digit power with a stock block and stock 340 forged crank that lived on for over 300 passes. I would think if I was to break a block it would be in the nitrous car.

A diaper goes a long way in prevention. I am sad to see a car destroyed for any reason. That has to be a crushing blow. Thats why I started running diapers long before they were required. Any engine can send a rod out the pan and is actually more likely with an aftermarket block because people feel they can “turn it up” and detonate that motor too which can result in a broken rod. Thats the reason why I didn’t O-ring my Ritter. The head gasket is a fusible link, which I have never blown a head gasket.

That was my thought but I felt it was irrelevant but since you said it, it makes sense. I also run my overflow to the trunk so if it boils over it is behind the tire.
Click to expand...


I understand. The end user has control. Most guys don’t or can’t tune or barely get by.

I’m not saying over *** hp the block will **** itself. Im saying it’s damned short sighted to build NA power over certain levels and NOT expect to see issues. I see them all the time. Not just on Chrysler stuff.

I did a BBC a couple of years ago that was under incredible duress. The guy who owns it drives it like an animal and doesnt tune.

I did the engine for him but I told him he was on thin ice. He’s still out beating on it but he’s getting by on luck.

As I’m typing this I had to chuckle. When you talk about detonation it just dawned on me that probably 98% of the bracket cars out there are running on self induced trace detonation. At the very best.

Most are probably running into full detonation at several points on the track but the engine moves through the rpm range where it’s detonation prone it doesn’t show up on the plugs.

So yeah, detonation is an issue. The bigger issue is convincing guys they are either hurting the engine with detonation or they are giving up power to keep it out of detonation.
 
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Before I moved to a R block and R3 blocks, I broke a 77 360 block, I honestly don’t think it was from the power, but more of the machine shop I was using at the time. I had them put offset outer 4 bolt pro gram caps on it. There isn’t enough meat for the outer 3/8 bolts in a factory block. Had hairline cracks right where the offset outer bolts were taped. Combo at that time was 408ci slightly ported w2s, solid roller, 14.1, 3250lbs and went low 9.80s without trying. Checked it after 12 passes from new and was cracked. But honestly I almost bet it was done during machining. This is from someone that has been a machinist for 30 yrs. Went to R and R3s after and have been flawless since and absolutely zero worry or anxiety about that since. Which for me is worth whatever it costs.
 
greendart408 said:
Before I moved to a R block and R3 blocks, I broke a 77 360 block, I honestly don’t think it was from the power, but more of the machine shop I was using at the time. I had them put offset outer 4 bolt pro gram caps on it. There isn’t enough meat for the outer 3/8 bolts in a factory block. Had hairline cracks right where the offset outer bolts were taped. Combo at that time was 408ci slightly ported w2s, solid roller, 14.1, 3250lbs and went low 9.80s without trying. Checked it after 12 passes from new and was cracked. But honestly I almost bet it was done during machining. This is from someone that has been a machinist for 30 yrs. Went to R and R3s after and have been flawless since and absolutely zero worry or anxiety about that since. Which for me is worth whatever it costs.
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Those caps actually make the block weaker, as you found out. There just isn’t enough materiel there to support the added load the bolt puts on the pan rail and the main bearing bulkhead.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
I don’t think he had a diaper. @MOPARMAGA will know for sure but it made me consider a diaper for my slow junk.

Thats another one of those PITA things that is far cheaper than a wrecked car or a crippled or dead human.
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Yeah I don't think he was running one either but I see no evidence of a belly pan.
100% not sure... sorry.
Tech should have required something especially at Pacific raceway.
 

turbodart68 said:
I hear you. I take it you are a professional engine builder. With that said you don't know what abuse the end user is doing to it. Also there has been a lot of advancement in fuels and fuel/timing management over the years. My nitrous car makes 650 on the motor at 8 grand and gets knocked over the head with a 250 shot on the starting line (no nitrous controller) and has had hundreds of passes and is over 20 years old. I build my own engines and I am very careful with temperature, fuel, and timing. This is my key to success. I do run a Ritter block now because I am making over 1500 at the wheel now.

The block fill puts more heat in the cylinder and that can send a motor over the edge into detonation. Personally I have never filled a block or run a girdle. I do run aftermarket main caps though which might be why I don't see cap walk. Back in the 90’s I made four digit power with a stock block and stock 340 forged crank that lived on for over 300 passes. I would think if I was to break a block it would be in the nitrous car.

A diaper goes a long way in prevention. I am sad to see a car destroyed for any reason. That has to be a crushing blow. Thats why I started running diapers long before they were required. Any engine can send a rod out the pan and is actually more likely with an aftermarket block because people feel they can “turn it up” and detonate that motor too which can result in a broken rod. Thats the reason why I didn’t O-ring my Ritter. The head gasket is a fusible link, which I have never blown a head gasket.

That was my thought but I felt it was irrelevant but since you said it, it makes sense. I also run my overflow to the trunk so if it boils over it is behind the tire.
Click to expand...
Great idea with the overflow, I'll be doing that myself now that you mentioned it.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Those caps actually make the block weaker, as you found out. There just isn’t enough materiel there to support the added load the bolt puts on the pan rail and the main bearing bulkhead.
Click to expand...
They are not a good idea. Especially on a 360. I could see using them on a T/A block but thats more expensive than an aftermarket block. Ultimately if you have the money run the aftermarket block but like a lot of guys I didn’t have the money at the time and I got to see the true potential and I don’t think I found the end at which a stock block fails.
 
I have heard through out the years that a 340 -1 block is stronger than say a - 8 or 9 anyone know for sure on this ?
 
jimjimjimmy said:
I have heard through out the years that a 340 -1 block is stronger than say a - 8 or 9 anyone know for sure on this ?
Click to expand...
I can verify by the color of the cast iron that came out of an early 340 that there was a substantial amount more of nickel in the block.
I bored and honed 3 - 340s recently. The one cast in 68 was way better in my opinion.
 
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