He's got HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS....
Pushrod Angle problems
- Thread starter 1970Duster
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340sFastback
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Here is my set up. After I took the heads back off and clearanced them everything was fine. It aint pretty but it works fine now.
1970Duster
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What Head? Cast iron or aluminum?
340sFastback
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Edelbrocks, closed chamber "360" heads. Had to clearance the push rod holes a lot. Not hard to do though. Running Comp Cams Pro Magnum rocker arms with Hughes hold down kit. I measured the push rods and they turned out to be the same size as an early Ford 302 V8.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Got the push rods from Brian at IMM (user ou812). He was as cheap as Summit but cheaper shipping and the parts were at my door quickly.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Stage 2 ported from Shady Dell Speed:
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
Comp told me on the phone once that they had an off-the-shelf push rod for the LA head with the factory roller block & they told me the length. Don't remember what it was but at the time they said they still recommended you measure instead of trying to just buy & hope it was right. Wonder if it was the Ford spec part?
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Yeah my push rods are Comp Cams off the shelf hollow too same size as Ford 302. But Comp makes many many different off the shelf size push rods. Keep in mind my cam is custom ground with extremely small base circle and my heads are milled too. Not likely others would use the exact same size push I use. Plus with the Comp Cams Pro Magnum rocker arms you have to have the push rod length right on the money or the oil feed hole to the rocker arm adjuster will get blocked.
1970Duster
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Speaking of "on the money" with that angle how are the lifters and rockers holding up? Also which roller lifters you use? Also did you have your lifter bores bushed?
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
No lifter bores bushed. That is why I went with custom ground small base circle cam, to make the lifters ride lower in the lifter bores so lifter oil groove does not become exposed at max lift. The small base circle also helps with the angle because the lifters ride lower down. I used the Crane hydraulic roller lifters. The engine has been together for two years and its been run hard; my guess is around 1500 miles. Haven't even adjusted the valves yet and it runs like a champ. Valve train is completely quiet too.
Brian at IMM spec'ed out the cam and had it ground for me. Same cost as an off the shelf cam for the most part. He had to have a second cam ground because my block was so sloppy we needed a smaller base circle cam then any engine he had ever seen. No cost on the retry either.
Brian at IMM spec'ed out the cam and had it ground for me. Same cost as an off the shelf cam for the most part. He had to have a second cam ground because my block was so sloppy we needed a smaller base circle cam then any engine he had ever seen. No cost on the retry either.
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
Now that's great service. I've never heard of a company regrinding one for free when the problem wasn't their fault.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
The fault was the sloppy casting of the block. Some blocks have problems some don't. Its a '71 340 block.
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
Yeah I remember when you went through it.
moper
Well-Known Member
So does the one I pictured. It has stock replacement hydraulic rollers, factory LA block, Crane hydraulic roller cam, Edelbrock heads. I'll grab fresh pictures as I'll be reassembling the top end this weekend.
340s issues came from using a flat tappet block and wanting to run the hydraulic roller lifters. It had nothing to do with pushrod length and the pushrod angle that resulted are gentler than the factory roller blocks because his lifters are deeper into the block w/the smaller base circle.
mshred
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Moper, did you have to grind the heads in the engine you posted pictures of?
Im hoping i wont have to take a grinder to my brand new RHS heads because of the factory hydraulic roller lifters and new pushrods
Dave,
You wrote that and it looks like it had a flat tappet installed from the way it was written and the way I read it. Seen lots of roller blocks with flat tappets installed in them.
This may also be a deal where different rockers have varying points where the pushrod hits the adjusters, further from the rocker shaft c/l. I've never had one, especially with 1.6 LA rockers, not have an issue with the PR hitting the holes on ede heads and the valves weren't sunk. Even the 1.5 Cranes I had were a PIA to get clearanced.
The ones I've done have all been 88-92 roller blocks, not the early retro fit stuff.
mshred
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not to sound stupid, but once you clearance the pushrod holes, lets say you go to a flat tappet cam after with the same heads- will you have excessive play of the pushrods now because the holes have been enlargened?
1970Duster
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I can't speak for that but I can tell you, there is no going back to flat tappet cam in this motor (at least not for me anyway). If I ever sell the car I'll let that person know about it before hand.
no..the pushrod holes do not guide the pushrods on a LA mopar...the rocker can not move since it is located on a shaft...there for the pushrods will not move..
mshred
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thanks for the info Tony! I was just more concerned if the heads would be unusable after on a flat tappet setup where the holes didnt need to be enlargened
moper
Well-Known Member
No biggie guys. The reason I am saying it's a valve job issue rather than a pushrod angle issue is the pushrod hits that rocker. If you look at mine, the pushrod and adjuster are almost straight when the valve's closed. It shouldn't come near the sides of the hole in the head at this point, regardless of lifter type. At max lift it will. Ans as others noted, the holes are elongated as part of that "check and correct" deal. Honestly, I do that on all the aftermarket heads while they are being fixed including big blocks. They all seem to have issues there...lol.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
Hmm...This is rather odd. I wasn't aware of these minor problems when running roller cams/ lifters. I guess I didn't know because I wasn't told about it when my engine was assembled...
On my 408 stroker, I have Hughes 1.6 roller rockers, and stage 3 Edelbrock ported heads also done by Hughes, and a hydraulic roller cam and lifters in my 1972 360 LA block. The lifter bores are not bushed.
Here are some pics I just now took of it.
But I cant really tell if my pushrod holes on my heads were ground bigger....???
On my 408 stroker, I have Hughes 1.6 roller rockers, and stage 3 Edelbrock ported heads also done by Hughes, and a hydraulic roller cam and lifters in my 1972 360 LA block. The lifter bores are not bushed.
Here are some pics I just now took of it.
But I cant really tell if my pushrod holes on my heads were ground bigger....???
1970Duster
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I think because you started off with aluminum heads they just took care of it. I was just going to use my x heads and work with the cast iron like that is what threw the brakes on. This is why I'm switch to aluminum heads.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
I think you're right. They just took care of it, but I would have liked to know what was done! It doesn't show up on my receipts anywhere saying they ground the pushrod holes. lol Anyways, I hope you get it all sorted out, and go with Edelbrock heads. They aren't that bad, and will perform as intended.
TurdFerguson
Banned
Exactly.
When you pay someone else to build your stuff, whats for them to tell you besides..pay x amount and have a nice day.
Just open the push rod holes up, it costs nothing and will actually fix the real problem.
jma-Spend where it counts and for the right reasons.
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