440 source

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dukeboy440

dukeboy440

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Planning out my 440 build, pretty much decided on aluminum heads. Which leads me to some questions. the 440 source heads are almost 600 bucks cheaper than the Eddy heads and almost a grand less than Indy EZs. Now I'm a firm believer in getting what you pay for, however, I can't ignore 440 source at that much savings.

When 440 source first came out with their heads a few years back, there was a lot of mixed reviews of poor quality. I've searched on several forums, as well as google. Most reviews I've found are very dated. So I'm wondering if anyone is currently running a set of 440 Stealth heads, what you've experienced and if you'd recommend the heads? Also, what combo are you running?
 
I hope they have changed, but My engine builder had built a couple motors here where the heads cracked shortly after being run on the dyno around the water jackets. Source customer service left a lot to be desired as well. That made my decision to buy Edelbrock.
 
By the way i got my RPM heads for $705 Canadian ea. So it pays to shop around. My Engine builder also liked the quality of the valvetrain components that came with the Eddy heads as well. I am not trying to sound arrogant, but i believe in spending Good money once on quality parts if i am going to buy anything in life. That policy has never let me down.
 
I was wondering the same thing. I'd like to hear MRL chime in.
 
Fisher said:
By the way i got my RPM heads for $705 Canadian ea. So it pays to shop around. My Engine builder also liked the quality of the valvetrain components that came with the Eddy heads as well. I am not trying to sound arrogant, but i believe in spending Good money once on quality parts if i am going to buy anything in life. That policy has never let me down.
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As do I, but I want to cover all bases which is why I'm investigating the 440 source.

Thank you for your input, Eddys are on the table, the only thing that concerns me about the Eddys is the angled spark plug and whether or not it'd clear the schumacher headers I plan to run.
 
Edelbrock has recently released a lower cost aluminum head that is very similar to their standard head. They were developed to be cost competitive to the 440 source products.
 
I bought 440 Source full CNC ported. I heard that the valves are OK but the springs, retainers and locks are not to be trusted. I went with COMP springs, retainers and locks. I also brought them to a good local engine builder and had him check them out and mill .050" to bring the chambers down below 75cc. He did not flow bench them but did comment that the porting job (done by Modern cylinder head) looked very good. The main reason I opted for them over Eddy's or Indy's is the stock appearance of the Stealth's if Eddy's could be had like that I'd have bought them. I painted mine Hemi orange along with the motor and it looks like it has regular iron heads, a huge plus in my book. I got it running but no real testing done yet due to transmission issues.
 
I like the Angle plug heads, My motor is on the dyno right now and the angle plug heads offer lots of clearance with the TTI Headers. TTI actually made the headers to fit that head .
 
The 440 Source Stealth head is like any aftermarket head you buy. It should be taken apart, cleaned and prepped, valve and seat runout checked and guide clearances measured. The new locks are leaving nicks in the stem locking groove that must be filed down befor the valves can be removed or they cut grooves in the bronze guide. The last ones I worked with were about 8 months ago. They are using what are supposed to be Comp retainers and locks and if they are, they are the cheapest available, replace them. The springs are as good as or equal to the Edelbrocks in seat and open pressures. Many of the valve stems are scoured just below the locking groove and I attribute that to poor assembly procedures. The combustion chambers have been reduced to approximately 80-81 cc's so there is much less chance of the head gasket protruding into the chamber as before. I use the FelPro 8519PT1 head gasket up to and including 12:1 and have experienced no failures to 780 HP. Sometimes the smaller FelPro 1009 gets close to the chamber. I've found no flaws in the casting quality. The OOTB flows are not up the flows as listed on the website but are getting better as the last heads we received were hand prepped much as the Edelbrocks used to be.

Some further information on heads we tested in 2010 is here:

http://forums.moparmusclemagazine.c...formance-discussion/440-source-stealth-heads/
 
IQ52 said:
The 440 Source Stealth head is like any aftermarket head you buy. It should be taken apart, cleaned and prepped, valve and seat runout checked and guide clearances measured. The new locks are leaving nicks in the stem locking groove that must be filed down befor the valves can be removed or they cut grooves in the bronze guide. The last ones I worked with were about 8 months ago. They are using what are supposed to be Comp retainers and locks and if they are, they are the cheapest available, replace them. The springs are as good as or equal to the Edelbrocks in seat and open pressures. Many of the valve stems are scoured just below the locking groove and I attribute that to poor assembly procedures. The combustion chambers have been reduced to approximately 80-81 cc's so there is much less chance of the head gasket protruding into the chamber as before. I use the FelPro 8519PT1 head gasket up to and including 12:1 and have experienced no failures to 780 HP. Sometimes the smaller FelPro 1009 gets close to the chamber. I've found no flaws in the casting quality. The OOTB flows are not up the flows as listed on the website but are getting better as the last heads we received were hand prepped much as the Edelbrocks used to be.

Some further information on heads we tested in 2010 is here:

http://forums.moparmusclemagazine.c...formance-discussion/440-source-stealth-heads/
Click to expand...


Thanks man. So to clarify, even the Eddy's or Indy's would need to be checked out and touched up possibly? What's a typical prep like you describe run for a pair?
 
Fisher said:
I like the Angle plug heads, My motor is on the dyno right now and the angle plug heads offer lots of clearance with the TTI Headers. TTI actually made the headers to fit that head .
Click to expand...

Right, but most companies don't. Plus the TTIs are super expensive and I'm not sure its worth the cost. Schumacher's are going to be bad enough of a dent. :headbang:
 
dukeboy_318 said:
As do I, but I want to cover all bases which is why I'm investigating the 440 source.

Thank you for your input, Eddys are on the table, the only thing that concerns me about the Eddys is the angled spark plug and whether or not it'd clear the schumacher headers I plan to run.
Click to expand...

If your talking the Schumacher tri y, I called and talked to them about the fitment with the Eddy heads and angled plugs. I was told that they were designed to fit and supposedly fit very well. May want to call and speak with them if considering any of the newer style headers. However I have NOT actually purchased headers yet as I'm no to that point with my build.
 
We are running the eddy heads right out of the box, they need nothing, just check the open and seat pressure of the springs to make sure they will work with your cam. Cleaning up the ports polish them etc can be done if your looking for every last ounce of HP , maybe 15 hp there, but the cost and time to remove all the valvetrain isnt worth it to me at this time. My TTI headers were $671.00 bare, then spent $75 here at local powder coater for the high heat thermal coating in flat black.
 
Yes, on most the budget after market heads, Pro comp ect. the springs and retainers are junk. He is right, buy good quality springs and the Comp. retains and locks.You should be able to buy the heads bare also.
Every engine freshening (drag car), I just go a head and replace the retainers & locks. Also watch for the leading edge of the spring cutting the center out of the retainers like a milling machine. Simply polish the spring ends upon assembly. Stay away from Titanium retainers too. This is info from all my experience and a couple of buddies using budget heads.
Having cut a titanium retainer, catching it before further damage,and also 3 of us dropping a valve .


Doosterfy said:
I bought 440 Source full CNC ported. I heard that the valves are OK but the springs, retainers and locks are not to be trusted. I went with COMP springs, retainers and locks. I also brought them to a good local engine builder and had him check them out and mill .050" to bring the chambers down below 75cc. He did not flow bench them but did comment that the porting job (done by Modern cylinder head) looked very good. The main reason I opted for them over Eddy's or Indy's is the stock appearance of the Stealth's if Eddy's could be had like that I'd have bought them. I painted mine Hemi orange along with the motor and it looks like it has regular iron heads, a huge plus in my book. I got it running but no real testing done yet due to transmission issues.
Click to expand...
 
I ran them on my Polara until a connecting rod broke. never had a problem with them. Low comp 440 out of an RV. My buddy put a set on his Super Bee and has had no issues. The only person i talked to who had a problem was giving a 400 shot of Nitrous to the stock heads and melted them.
 
I ordered my RPM's bare. Had my machinist cut the intake seats for 2.19" valves, did a valve job, sized the guides, put oil restrictors in both heads & put them on the flow bench after I worked the bowls & ports. Used PAC springs, Comp tool steel retainers & 10* locks and T&D rockers.

I think you're getting a decent head for the money, in a bare casting. Which is what I'd suggest buying, no matter who's you decide to go with. Have a good, reputable shop go over them. Then buy the best valve train components that your budget allows, and I think you're in business with Edelbrock, Indy, or even 440 Source.
 
I had a set of Eddy heads on the small block I used to run. I disassembled them to inspect. I would recommend it, only need a valve spring compressor tool. The valves/stems were all in excellent shape. Then checked for dragging of the valves in the guides.
By mixing and matching valves to guides for best fit ended up with only one guide that needed to be enlarged ever so slightly; did it by hand with rolled up 600 grit sand paper rotating the paper and moving up/down the guide to create a cross hatch honing pattern. The springs met specs, retainers and keepers all good stuff too. The rocker arm geometry was very good with Comp rockers. Ran the set up about 4000 miles on the street with no issues. Then sold the engine. Just my 2cents.
 
My dad is running the 440source heads. Changed the locks/retainers, did a quick bowl cleanup (2 to 3 minutes per port), and slapped them on. The car went from 13.0s with 3.23s and the old home-ported 906 heads to 12.6s with no carb tuning. He went from stamped to 1.5 roller rockers at the same time, but I'd say most of the gain was from the heads.

If I had a big block, I'd run em.
 
I forgot to mention that I had to do alot of clearancing for the pushrods, especially the intake side. I'm using Crane Gold race rockers. I ended up using offset rockers for the intakes. I used COMP pushrod length checkers to determine how long the rods needed to be. The length checkers are 5/16th dia. I then bought 3/8th dia. rods from Smith bros and the clearance was gone so more work was needed. I had the heads milled after all the pushrod clearancing was done and discovered that it helped gain more clearance. What that told me was keeping the rods on the longer side is helpful to gain clearance. It keeps the adjustment screw in the rockers further up in the rocker which moves the rod away from the head where the issue was. Also worth noting is that the problem is worst when the valve is in the closed position ( lifter on the base of the lobe). What this means is the problem is not related to valve lift, I.E. it does not matter how much valve lift you go with. I have no idea if the Eddy's or INDY's have issues with this.
 
My Edelbrocks have never had a problem with pushrod clearance except for the one time that I stupidly assembled the rockers out of the correct order on the shafts!
 
The Schumacher Tri-y's on the Edelbrock's angle plugs fit just fine. I used that set up with a 451 B engine.
 
I have a 2-year old set of 440 Source Stealth heads still in the box.
I plan to disassemble them and take them to Modern Cylinder Head
for their CNC porting, then reasemble them with the Comp #26120
beehive spring and steel retainer package.

I bought a set of Pro-Comp Electronics stainless steel roller rockers
(1.5) from Jegs.

This is going on a freshly assembled 440 + 0.30 short block with KB
flat tops on Eagle H-beam rods and a Comp .484 hydraulic flat-tappet
camshaft. Holley Street Dominator with Holley 750 double pumper and
a 4-speed.

Any other preventative measures anyone would suggest before I get
too far?

Still has the original CPPA headers. This is a steet car.

Thanks
 
Old Man Mopar said:
I have a 2-year old set of 440 Source Stealth heads still in the box.
I plan to disassemble them and take them to Modern Cylinder Head
for their CNC porting, then reasemble them with the Comp #26120
beehive spring and steel retainer package.

I bought a set of Pro-Comp Electronics stainless steel roller rockers
(1.5) from Jegs.

This is going on a freshly assembled 440 + 0.30 short block with KB
flat tops on Eagle H-beam rods and a Comp .484 hydraulic flat-tappet
camshaft. Holley Street Dominator with Holley 750 double pumper and
a 4-speed.

Any other preventative measures anyone would suggest before I get
too far?

Still has the original CPPA headers. This is a steet car.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, get rid of the pro comp rockers. Especially if you are running the 484 PurpleShaft, just use stock rockers.

I put source heads on my 440. They seem to have some hand clean up done to the bowls after machining now, and from a few reports seem to flow a little bit more than a few years back. My heads came with comp 7 degree locks and retainers, and the springs are pretty good for your typical performance hydraulic. I am running double springs so I went to 10 degree locks and retainers. Heads looked good, one thing I will say though is I did find aluminum shavings in my valve guides when I took them apart. A quick hand lap showed that the valve job looked good.
 
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