Radiator in front?

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JefftheComputerMan

JefftheComputerMan

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Just a general question (rant) from a relative newbie, who the hell put the heat dissipating device in front of the heat generating device?

It makes me think of the genius who put the gas hot water heater 1 foot from the A/C in my house.

It couldn't be a worse place, it puts heat back on the thing you want cool, heats up the intake air, and is in the perfect place for ram air....

Wouldn't it would be better placed in two/four pieces in front of each tire (front and back) or under the trunk with electric fans dumping heat or out the back?

Imagine a ram air scoop of 4 ft sq on the front with cool air and not cut the hood.....
 
The tires would throw road crap up into the radiators.

And as far as putting it in the back you would have to pipe coolant back there then back to the engine.

Stick to computer cooling and leave the cars to people who are capable
 
GEO said:
The tires would throw road crap up into the radiators.

And as far as putting it in the back you would have to pipe coolant back there then back to the engine.

Stick to computer cooling and leave the cars to people who are capable
Click to expand...

Must be why some rails and trophy/buggy trucks do this...
 
GEO said:
Stick to computer cooling and leave the cars to people who are capable
Click to expand...

See, it was GEO's idea to put the radiator up front in the first place. Now you hurt his feelings...

OP, never ask reasonable questions. Just accept that our cars were engineered perfectly from the start. Apparently, you're wasting some people's time.

Hey GEO, why not stick to just ignoring posts that annoy you?
 
Like many features of automotive design, it's a trade-off, based on packaging considerations. Computers embody similar compromises.

You want the radiator where it gets lots of cool airflow -- obviously, the easiest way to do that is to place it at the very front of the car.

Airflow in the wheel wells would not be as unobstructed, and as pointed out, leads to other problems. Two radiators just creates complications with lengthy plumbing and fan location. Sure it could be solved -- a lot of the mid-engine exotics have dual radiator inlets, but they are not engineered to a price point, either. And they don't care if a simple service procedure takes 14 hours of shop time.

Finally, I think your basic premise is somewhat off the mark -- a little warm air blowing over the outside of the engine probably has no effect on its internal temperature, compared to the total effect of the cooling system (the engine is liquid cooled, not air cooled). The exhaust manifolds are radiating heat into the engine compartment already. The issue with cool intake air for the carburetor can be solved without moving the radiator, merely by adding a cold air inlet from the grille area (as most modern cars do).
 
You get minimal cooling of the engine block from the air around it so, the thought "hot air around the thing you want to cool" is irrelevant. Besides, the engine block will still run at the coolant temperature, controlled by the thermostat.

There would be an advantage in keeping heat away from other underhood components, especially plastic parts. Also, in keeping the heat away from the passenger compartment, at least in summertime. However, the later gets most heat from the exhaust pipes, which would still be there.

Problem is how could you plumb such a large flow of air around the engine, and why do so. My guess is that the engine bay would run hotter without airflow from the radiator. It would still have a large heat input from the exhaust. Your experiment seems to have already been done in rear-engined cars. Not an expert, but seems I have seen many on TV that have a radiator which vents hot air outside, not thru the engine bay. I recall reading that those cars have problems with high engine bay temperatures.
 
vynn3 said:
See, it was GEO's idea to put the radiator up front in the first place. Now you hurt his feelings...

OP, never ask reasonable questions. Just accept that our cars were engineered perfectly from the start. Apparently, you're wasting some people's time.

Hey GEO, why not stick to just ignoring posts that annoy you?
Click to expand...
GEEES I see, better not ask questions like that anymore!
 
805moparkid said:
Must be why some rails and trophy/buggy trucks do this...
Click to expand...

Most rails have rear mounted motors so the rad is back there too. Though it even kind of sucks because the piping most of the time has to go right past the exhaust. Not ideal but there always seams to be a compromise you just have to make.
 
Jeff, here's the fix for your question - but it won't be inexpensive to do.
All you have to do is major bodywork to change the hood on your Valiant to incorporate features similar in design to the Shelby Series 1.

View attachment ShelbySeries1.jpg

The cooling air comes in the front of the car, through the radiator and is then ducted up and out of the engine bay through the front part of the hood. This also generates quite a bit of downforce at the front of the car.
As long as you're doing a little "minor" metalwork, you could incorporate a cowl-induction type hood scoop to pick up cooler air from the high pressure area at the base of the windshield. In fact, all that air flowing out of the front of the hood may increase the amount of air available at the cowl.

Simple, right?
 
The radiator is up front for best access to fresh cool air. If the heat running through the engine bay is a concern you can fabricate a hood/cowl/fender hot air extraction vent.
 
ocdart said:
Jeff, here's the fix for your question - but it won't be inexpensive to do.
All you have to do is major bodywork to change the hood on your Valiant to incorporate features similar in design to the Shelby Series 1.

View attachment 1714746883

The cooling air comes in the front of the car, through the radiator and is then ducted up and out of the engine bay through the front part of the hood. This also generates quite a bit of downforce at the front of the car.
As long as you're doing a little "minor" metalwork, you could incorporate a cowl-induction type hood scoop to pick up cooler air from the high pressure area at the base of the windshield. In fact, all that air flowing out of the front of the hood may increase the amount of air available at the cowl.

Simple, right?
Click to expand...
Now that's a damn good answer!
 
The real Minis put the radiator on the side, as well as the rear engine Fiats. And you know how good those cars were...hahahah! The water pump mounted fan made a perfect mechanical cooling at idle setup. No one said you couldnt run 2 Scirocco radiators outboard of your motor, but cold air flowing over a water cooled motor isnt going to do squat for cooling it. And you can always snorkle your intake into a fresh air zone: Cowl, hood skin, scoop, through rad support via dryer ducting.....
 
mvh said:
Like many features of automotive design, it's a trade-off, based on packaging considerations. Computers embody similar compromises.

You want the radiator where it gets lots of cool airflow -- obviously, the easiest way to do that is to place it at the very front of the car.

Airflow in the wheel wells would not be as unobstructed, and as pointed out, leads to other problems. Two radiators just creates complications with lengthy plumbing and fan location. Sure it could be solved -- a lot of the mid-engine exotics have dual radiator inlets, but they are not engineered to a price point, either. And they don't care if a simple service procedure takes 14 hours of shop time.

Finally, I think your basic premise is somewhat off the mark -- a little warm air blowing over the outside of the engine probably has no effect on its internal temperature, compared to the total effect of the cooling system (the engine is liquid cooled, not air cooled). The exhaust manifolds are radiating heat into the engine compartment already. The issue with cool intake air for the carburetor can be solved without moving the radiator, merely by adding a cold air inlet from the grille area (as most modern cars do).
Click to expand...

I like this response best. Intelligent and sensible. You would need a different car to utilize
some of these mentioned fixes for a problem that doesn't even really exist. Its a valiant and it doesn't have turbine vanes.
Takes a lot of work and money to turn it into a Honda or Mitsubishi. Then what do you got.
Theirs the old guy opinion for you young guns. Funny stuff for sure.
 
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