6.1 Valve spring failure

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Buschi340 said:
didn't checked it out but is there a seat/retainer for the valve bottom? Or are the clamps of the damper the seat? In the case if I use the other springs from above w/o damper do I need a retainer below the valve to avoid valve movements sideways?
Click to expand...

aaargh, are shims and retainers required? this never got answered..... I simply threw the stock ones out and replaced them with the 1511. without the cages of course...
 
The stock valve seal is a combined seal and seat.

The cage sits on this seal/ seat

The factory seal/seat and the cage combine to create the correct install height FOR THE FACTORY SPRING.

If you use the PSI spring, you can use the cage but I cant help you with advice on the correct shim, or seal.

You are FAR better off using the correct height aftermarket shim, locater and seal.

The locater removes any need to use the cages.
 
to be clear. the locator is below the spring. because of what? Sideplay? On top is the retainer.

I just changed the springs. without cages. thought the ls1511 springs were made for the 2-3mm more height required.

so i need:
- shims to compensate the height difference,
- locators because to terminate side play
retainer and locks remain stock.

why new seals?
 
Buschi340 said:
to be clear. the locator is below the spring. because of what? Sideplay? On top is the retainer.

I just changed the springs. without cages. thought the ls1511 springs were made for the 2-3mm more height required.

so i need:
- shims to compensate the height difference,
- locators because to terminate side play
retainer and locks remain stock.

why new seals?
Click to expand...

Because as I wrote - the factory seat/seal is a combined item - when you pull the seat the seal comes with it.

71.jpg
 
Buschi340 said:
are those the locators fitting the LS1511 springs? And need the shims as well.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/man-42324-16/reviews/?filterReviews=FiveStar

Shims. Do i need all 3 different heights? Do I need them at all?
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/man-02231-50/overview/
Click to expand...

This is why I sourced my locaters, shims and seals from Thitek.

As far as I know, he gets the shims milled specially...which tells me theres no off the shelf solution

It saved me having to do installed height measurements as he knew exactly what thickness shim and locater was required.

We are lucky - the installed height on Gen 3 s doesnt vary much - if it did, each valve height would have to be calculated separately and we would use various thickness shims.
 
WOW that Totally blows that engine now needs to be torn completely down to the bare block and pray it didn't cut your crank and bearings all to hell , what really sucks I blew 1 apart 30 years ago and it left a burr in the lifter wall stuck a lifter and tookout another brand new build . Lucky the builder had connections , got me a new engine out of a crashed car dropped that in and we beat that car into the ground for 5 or 6 years.
dam I feel for you after the problems I just went threw building my new engine and tranny and I lost 1 of my best friends that was helping me take it all apart and was going to help me put it all together again , worse part he was like a brother to me at the same . But heres to Skinny We got her almost ready, my brother from another mother . that passenger seat will always have you and Bon Scott hanging out my windows and running like we owned the roads . good luck with your ride man ,I know that feeling of how deep did it cut , and I think i would look for a new engine and just loose that 1 . just from my past experiance with a rod breaking on us and small particals getting where you would never think could happen HELLS BELLS
 
Rat Patrol said:
This is why I sourced my locaters, shims and seals from Thitek.

As far as I know, he gets the shims milled specially...which tells me theres no off the shelf solution

It saved me having to do installed height measurements as he knew exactly what thickness shim and locater was required.

We are lucky - the installed height on Gen 3 s doesnt vary much - if it did, each valve height would have to be calculated separately and we would use various thickness shims.
Click to expand...

so the new seals are without seat? the way we know from regular engines? I am wondering what this seat of the stock seal does. because it is not under the stock spring. too small in diameter....

i assume he, i mean Thitek, sells sets? can you get me a link where to order? Or a contact? you already dealt with this company so you know them already.. Is it this guy? craig@thitek.net

** and BTW thanks so much for all the input. Your patience is very appreciated!*** :)
 
OK -

- The new seals a simple press on type like an LS motor - basically just a cap.

- Look at the pic of the factory seal - it has a flat disk at the bottom - this is the seat - its only a few thousandth" thick because the cage does most of the spacing

That email address is the correct one - yes Craig sells kits, including the correct locater, correct thickness shim ( only used on the intake side) and the aftermarket seals

You will need the correct valve spring press to do this job on the car - Crane makes it and sells it through Summit.
 
HotLines said:
Using LS1 springs on your Mopar to make it run best, while putting down GM motors daily....

You must be a republican...
Click to expand...


Hey, I resemble that! GM uses that same aftermarket Mopar spring....how's that sound.
 
Aluminum heads need something between the spring and head that doesn't rotate or they will eat themselves. The PSI's need locators on all valves AND shims under the locators on the intakes for correct install height IIRC.
 
Rat Patrol said:
OK -

- The new seals a simple press on type like an LS motor - basically just a cap.

- Look at the pic of the factory seal - it has a flat disk at the bottom - this is the seat - its only a few thousandth" thick because the cage does most of the spacing

That email address is the correct one - yes Craig sells kits, including the correct locater, correct thickness shim ( only used on the intake side) and the aftermarket seals

You will need the correct valve spring press to do this job on the car - Crane makes it and sells it through Summit.
Click to expand...

talked to craig. Is your real name Malcom? He remembers you well. In a good way. He's a really nice and helpful guy it seems.
Yes, he ships to me. Hope i have it all done this month. ( travelling to the US in may and back 2 days before the first race ) A spring press from summit? :) I had to built my own last year.... But now it is more complicated because i have to take of the seal where the valves were sticking in when you change just the springs. I hate to blow air into the spark plug holes... :D
 
72bbswinger - I did say shims on intake side only - locaters on all....sorry if what I wrote was confusing


Buschi - Yep that was me -

Compressed air is the safest way - the other way is to manually crank the motor around to the compression stroke for each cylinder - starting at tdc #1 cylindrr

This means every 90 degrees of crank rotation you change the springs and seals on the correct cylinder as per firing order.

As insurance, you can insert a long thin probe into the open spark plug hole - you will see it raise up as the piston reaches tdc in each cylinder - then you know its safe to remove the springs - this is hiw I did it.

BUT.....there will still be a small amount of valve drop..and this makes it trickier to get the locks on.
 
Oldtimers used to feed small cotton rope into the spark plug hole and run the piston up. I was surprised at how effective it was...
 
Nope. Just stating where I learned it from. Now that I know it (and I ain't an oldtimer yet) I pass it on. One day I WILL be the "Oldtimer" passing on knowledge all but lost to a generation who can't repair anything without a scanner or the "proper" tool.

"Necessity is the Mother of Invention!" So true!
 
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