FiTech EFI system

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MuuMuu101 said:
I agree on the double redundancy. It doesn't seem right, but when the shop built my car with the carb on it, for whatever reason the pulley system they used couldn't accommodate a mechanical pump. I'm currently running a Holley Blue pump. I'm trying to keep the work, cost, and parts used/removed/replaced down to a minimum. Based off of their instruction manuals, it seems to make a little more sense to go from tank, to electric pump, to throttle body, and back to tank since I already have 90% of they system in place.

So, Fitech's frame mount fuel delivery kit could be used as a return line? Do I need a pump for the return line? Where on the tank would I return it to.

Sorry for any ignorance. Carbs and fuel injection are still a little new to me, but reading the instructions, EFI doesn't seem too hard and will get my car to how I'd want it to be.

This is the photo I'm referring to on their instruction manual:

View attachment 1715009112
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You remove the blue pump and carb regulator, and any line that isn't 6AN,...then Use the pump kit i pasted above to replace it.

I don't know how they have your line coming out of the existing tank, or if you have a factory sender still in place, but you can send the return fuel into one of the barbs that is currently not being used...or even the base of the filler neck.

i assume you don't have a sumped tank? The "right" way to do it isn't really for a factory sender to be supplying the uphill fuel to a pump like this...but alot of guys make it work, and are fine with this pump kit.

The line and fittings you already have can be used AFTER this pump if its 6AN...or most would use it as a return line, only if you need "extra"...and again that assuming its 6AN.

does that make sense?

upload_2017-1-18_13-14-59.png
 
Johnny Pace said:
You remove the blue pump and carb regulator, and any line that isn't 6AN,...then Use the pump kit i pasted above to replace it.

I don't know how they have your line coming out of the existing tank, or if you have a factory sender still in place, but you can send the return fuel into one of the barbs that is currently not being used...or even the base of the filler neck.

i assume you don't have a sumped tank? The "right" way to do it isn't really for a factory sender to be supplying the uphill fuel to a pump like this...but alot of guys make it work, and are fine with this pump kit.

The line and fittings you already have can be used AFTER this pump if its 6AN...or most would use it as a return line, only if you need "extra"...and again that assuming its 6AN.

does that make sense?

View attachment 1715009114
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I'd have to take a look under my car to verify, but yes, I have the factory unbaffled tank. I'm 99% sure the factory sender is still in place; however, I am unsure where the fuel line exits the tank.

But essentially what you are saying is to remove the current fuel lines and replace them with the kit above. Assuming I have 6AN line, I can use my current setup as a return line back to the tank, correct? Would I use the Holley Blue in the return line or just toss it?
 
MuuMuu101 said:
I'd have to take a look under my car to verify, but yes, I have the factory unbaffled tank. I'm 99% sure the factory sender is still in place; however, I am unsure where the fuel line exits the tank.

But essentially what you are saying is to remove the current fuel lines and replace them with the kit above. Assuming I have 6AN line, I can use my current setup as a return line back to the tank, correct? Would I use the Holley Blue in the return line or just toss it?
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You're looking good right up until you ask about keeping the blue.lol Yes, you take it off and don't use it.

Basically run the kit above, in place of what you have, and if you need MORE line than the kit supplies, and your line you took off is 6AN, then you can use some of it. yes.
 
Johnny Pace said:
You're looking good right up until you ask about keeping the blue.lol Yes, you take it off and don't use it.

Basically run the kit above, in place of what you have, and if you need MORE line than the kit supplies, and your line you took off is 6AN, then you can use some of it. yes.
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Cool. Sounds super simple.
 
and you might as well get the 800 system, since you already have the ready to run MSD. Since you don't need timing control, it'll leave room for expansion, or nitrous in the future.
 
Hey Johnny Pace -
If I understand your comments to MuuMuu101, the stock 5/16 gas line is too small to use for the return line to the tank?
Please confirm.
Thanks!
 
ocdart said:
Hey Johnny Pace -
If I understand your comments to MuuMuu101, the stock 5/16 gas line is too small to use for the return line to the tank?
Please confirm.
Thanks!
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Ehh..yes and no... AN is measured in 16s... so 6AN is .375 5/16 is .3125..thats a pretty darn close. It would basically be 5AN if it existed. Technically...you're not supposed to go any smaller on the return side as to not cause any restrictions. But as long as you used fittings that didn't choke down that 5/16 any smaller. You'll be fine. Personally a roll of -6AN hose is all of $40-60 pending the kind you buy..even cheaper for a roll of tube....so i'd probably just do it right, but i understand using what you have.
ProClassic Hose Russell 632073 - Pace Performance Parts
 
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Johnny Pace said:
Ehh..yes and no... AN is measured in 16s... so 6AN is .375 5/16 is .3125..thats a pretty darn close. It would basically be 5AN if it existed. Technically...you're not supposed to go any smaller on the return side as to not cause any restrictions. But as long as you used fittings that didn't choke down that 5/16 any smaller. You'll be fine. Personally a roll of -6AN hose is all of $40-60 pending the kind you buy..even cheaper for a roll of tube....so i'd probably just do it right, but i understand using what you have.
ProClassic Hose Russell 632073 - Pace Performance Parts
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Yeah, close dimensionally but a fairly large difference in cross-sectional area.
-6 (.375" dia.) tube/hose is 44% larger that .3125" dia. tube/hose in cross-sectional area, so theoretically should flow 44% more volume. Correct?
 
ocdart said:
Yeah, close dimensionally but a fairly large difference in cross-sectional area.
-6 (.375" dia.) tube/hose is 44% larger that .3125" dia. tube/hose in cross-sectional area, so theoretically should flow 44% more volume. Correct?
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Im no rocket scientist lol. Id google AN horsepower support levels and you'd be surprised what relatively small hoses can flow. Efi has alot of pressure also...different than 6psi with a carb. I dont really buy the 40 percent increase from just 6 to 8an. Psi has alot to do with it also.
 
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Im debating about picking one of these units up. After reading thru this entire thread, I have to say Im very leery. It seems like a lot of messing around just to get it to run correctly. The reason I was thinking of going with this unit is because Im tired of messing around with carbs. Well it seems like there is a bigger risk of getting stranded or not running correctly with this. Like Johnny mentioned you dont hear about the people that are happy with it, just the ones that are having problems. I was also under the impression using the FCC you didnt need to run a return/vent line and now I see you do. My tank is not set up for it and if this is something that must be done then that is even more cost to the system. I guess Im looking for someone to convince me to go with this unit now. Im also curious if anyone has seen an increase in MPG's out of this.
 
straightlinespeed said:
Im debating about picking one of these units up. After reading thru this entire thread, I have to say Im very leery. It seems like a lot of messing around just to get it to run correctly. The reason I was thinking of going with this unit is because Im tired of messing around with carbs. Well it seems like there is a bigger risk of getting stranded or not running correctly with this. Like Johnny mentioned you dont hear about the people that are happy with it, just the ones that are having problems. I was also under the impression using the FCC you didnt need to run a return/vent line and now I see you do. My tank is not set up for it and if this is something that must be done then that is even more cost to the system. I guess Im looking for someone to convince me to go with this unit now. Im also curious if anyone has seen an increase in MPG's out of this.
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I'll answer any questions you have, but I'll let the masses jump on this one so you don't feel "over-sold".
Between these and the snipers...anyone with the basic ability to install a distributor, and set timing with a light, should have minimal issues as long as you follow instruction. For what its worth...the "vent" line is much smaller than an actual return line, and doesn't have to be fancy since its not continuously pumping fuel. On my dart (and i think others?) the filler neck pulls out pretty easy. You could very easily tap a small barb fitting into the base of the filler neck with it on a work bench, where there would be no risk of metal filings an such.
 
straightlinespeed said:
Im debating about picking one of these units up. After reading thru this entire thread, I have to say Im very leery. It seems like a lot of messing around just to get it to run correctly. The reason I was thinking of going with this unit is because Im tired of messing around with carbs. Well it seems like there is a bigger risk of getting stranded or not running correctly with this. Like Johnny mentioned you dont hear about the people that are happy with it, just the ones that are having problems. I was also under the impression using the FCC you didnt need to run a return/vent line and now I see you do. My tank is not set up for it and if this is something that must be done then that is even more cost to the system. I guess Im looking for someone to convince me to go with this unit now. Im also curious if anyone has seen an increase in MPG's out of this.
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I think I was one of the first , at least on this website, that bought, in August of 2015. I had some issues with mine, and eventually had to send the throttle body back for an ecu upgrade. Mine just kept kicking O2 sensor faults.

I would not be going back to a carb.. Too much tinkering if you want everything to run just right. Tinkering on the handheld controller you will do, but way cleaner. Does it work perfectly.. not yet, but sooo close. think it's a little rich? change the AFR at the side of the road. Need a bit more fuel on acceleration? Change the accel pump settings till it's better.

For me , winter and colder starts were always a problem.. not any more.. starts at -25 celcius, with the block heater plugged in and runs with no stalling without touching the gas pedal. Car has never run smoother..

The "dreaded FCC". Sure you need a vent line.. But i have never had a problem with it. Is there gas going back to the tank ? Don't know..Probably, but that's what the line takes care off. Reducing the Fuel pump numbers as Fitech now recommends I think keeps it all cooler.

I have never been stranded. I believe there is even a limp mode, just like newer cars built into the ECU. Good luck with whatever you decide. !!

Now can someone move us into spring to I can get back out there !

Straightline!! pop up to Winnipeg and I will take you for a spin!!

Ken
 
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Thank you Johnny and Ken for the quick replies.

One question about the vent line. I have a 71 with a gas tank vent system like below. Can I use that tank vent line like in the picture? I would have to add the original line back in but that would make it easier.

ECS.gif



The first time I saw one of these units was at Mopars in the Park on another members car. I will admit it was very smooth running and I liked that. I have cold start issues so that would be a plus! Ken, can you confirm if you have any sort of increase in MPG's. I only get around 11mpg with my car and that is with a 727 and 3:23's, and easy on the throttle.
 
I drilled a hole in the gas tank fill tube and installed a brass fitting with a barb. Any overflow on the vent line can drop right back into the tank. I ran a new line back to that fitting.

Unfortunately I do not know if I am getting more miles per gallon.. I used to get close to 22 MPG with the carb , 2.76 gears. But it seems to be better. Won;t be able to check until snow is gone.
 
ken5124 said:
I drilled a hole in the gas tank fill tube and installed a brass fitting with a barb. Any overflow on the vent line can drop right back into the tank. I ran a new line back to that fitting.

Unfortunately I do not know if I am getting more miles per gallon.. I used to get close to 22 MPG with the carb , 2.76 gears. But it seems to be better. Won;t be able to check until snow is gone.
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X2 on this. I have to admit as a "non-concourse" type guy...any contraption that looked like that on my car would have ended up in the trash can. I think the simple barbed fitting or a small bulkhead would suffice, i may spend the extra $1 and get a steel one. or anodized...to be a big timer.lol
 
LOL, it was just a thought being that all those lines are there. Trust me I dont like that set up but it was there so I just kept it. So when you put the barb in fill tube, I assume you installed it under the rubber seal for the trunk pan?
 
straightlinespeed said:
LOL, it was just a thought being that all those lines are there. Trust me I dont like that set up but it was there so I just kept it. So when you put the barb in fill tube, I assume you installed it under the rubber seal for the trunk pan?
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correct
 
I have not had improved MPG on mine, if anything it is worse. I bought mine over a year ago for my daily driver 87 Ramcharger. Unfortunatly I have not had the success that others have had with there`s on here. My truck is no longer the dependable go anywhere truck it was before. I have sent the unit back 2 times now. I have the FCC and have gone through 3 mecanical fuel pumps now and no body can tell me why. I have since bought a newer car to drive while my truck sits still till I fugure out how much more money I want to throw at this. The last time I sent it back to FiTec they did not mark it a warranty claim and I had to pay Duty on it coming across the boarder again.
Good Luck
 
Johnny, another question. I have a MP with Mallory internals dizzy, but Im running HEI. Will that work with the timing control or will only billet dizzys work with the timing control. If that is the case why is that?
 
straightlinespeed said:
Im debating about picking one of these units up. After reading thru this entire thread, I have to say Im very leery. It seems like a lot of messing around just to get it to run correctly. The reason I was thinking of going with this unit is because Im tired of messing around with carbs. Well it seems like there is a bigger risk of getting stranded or not running correctly with this. Like Johnny mentioned you dont hear about the people that are happy with it, just the ones that are having problems. I was also under the impression using the FCC you didnt need to run a return/vent line and now I see you do. My tank is not set up for it and if this is something that must be done then that is even more cost to the system. I guess Im looking for someone to convince me to go with this unit now. Im also curious if anyone has seen an increase in MPG's out of this.
Click to expand...

This is the easiest FI kit ever! Look for yourself on YouTube @ 100's of very happy users with almost all having first crank success! Every application that you could imagine. My personal concern is that I have new everything, engine, ignition, alternator, FI. I just am worried about my hyd flat tappet cam breaking in good. Everyone has me freaked out on wiping a cam, I'm sure the FI product itself is much better. I jumped on this because Im familiar with FI but not carbs. To get a carb tuned on a new engine is a substantial cash outlay. With this you can do it yourself, WITH a Ton of data streaming into the Control that you never had at your finger Tips, especially Air Fuel Ratio! Its actually cheaper and my time is worth a lot especially in very hot/cold conditions.

FYI,

Marion
 
straightlinespeed said:
Johnny, another question. I have a MP with Mallory internals dizzy, but Im running HEI. Will that work with the timing control or will only billet dizzys work with the timing control. If that is the case why is that?
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It won't work with timing control...thats 100% for sure. If you're essentially using a mallory distributor...but have a 4 pin HEI type unit tacked on. You can run the fitech in fuel only, and it'll pull the tach signal from the HEI, but it can't use it to control timing.

There are several reasons the non-billet types don't work well (and this is where alot of your groaners come from, by not following simple call-outs in the instructions)
A strong, clean tach signal is high on that list. The billets have it, the OEM types dont.
also the phasable rotor is required. the fitech can throw very high timing numbers out for cruise and economy conditions. The base circle of the distributor, and the rotor position are extremely important for this as to avoid spark jump from one terminal to the next in these conditions.

Long story short, for timing control, you want an MSD, or one of my MSD clones, and the phasable rotor, if you want to do timing. messing with any other combination (other than using an MSD type box that you already happen to have) is just asking for problems. it CAN use a cheap-o, or OE distributor IF you wire in a box also...but that double redundant, and more pieces parts that aren't congruent with the simplicity of the install...IMO of course.
 
Thank you Rudy and Marion for the info.

Marion, you have no idea how many hours I have spent in my garage tuning carbs. I have 3 different carbs in my garage and tuning kits for every one of them. Im still not happy with them totally. Not to mention Im really tired of the cold start sit and wait crap. Especially here in MN and with a air gap.
 
Johnny Pace said:
It won't work with timing control...thats 100% for sure. If you're essentially using a mallory distributor...but have a 4 pin HEI type unit tacked on. You can run the fitech in fuel only, and it'll pull the tach signal from the HEI, but it can't use it to control timing.

There are several reasons the non-billet types don't work well (and this is where alot of your groaners come from, by not following simple call-outs in the instructions)
A strong, clean tach signal is high on that list. The billets have it, the OEM types dont.
also the phasable rotor is required. the fitech can throw very high timing numbers out for cruise and economy conditions. The base circle of the distributor, and the rotor position are extremely important for this as to avoid spark jump from one terminal to the next in these conditions.

Long story short, for timing control, you want an MSD, or one of my MSD clones, and the phasable rotor, if you want to do timing. messing with any other combination (other than using an MSD type box that you already happen to have) is just asking for problems. it CAN use a cheap-o, or OE distributor IF you wire in a box also...but that double redundant, and more pieces parts that aren't congruent with the simplicity of the install...IMO of course.
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I dont have an MSD box, but Im running an HEI set up like what Trailbeast sells. It uses the GM 4 pin HEI module like you mentioned. Not sure if that is important though. I guess what would be the benefits of using the timing control vs. stock set up?
 
straightlinespeed said:
I dont have an MSD box, but Im running an HEI set up like what Trailbeast sells. It uses the GM 4 pin HEI module like you mentioned. Not sure if that is important though. I guess what would be the benefits of using the timing control vs. stock set up?
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Timing control on the handheld can be adjusted via buttons, opposed to having to adjust the distributor with a wrench and such. There's really nothing fancy to it however. If you want to keep using the trailbeast kit, i have no issue with that. Just know the fitech would only operate in fuel only. If you want to do timing control. You need to add about $160 for a distributor, and maybe $30 for the rotor. Since yours wouldn't be compatible with the timing control. This does open up the cheaper 400 horse unit also, if you're not making much more than 400
 
Perfect, Thanks again for the info.

Ok I have another question. Those of you that have not used the FCC and did an external fuel pump what did you do about your return line into the tank. Also did you do an intank pump or mounted somewhere else. Would the stock 5/16 line be big enough and how big of a return line do I need? Im trying to decide if I want to do it cleanly and not use the FCC. Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.
 
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