Beyond Frustrated - Wont start/stay running

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carfreak6970

carfreak6970

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As the title suggests, I am at my wits end...

So some background on the car: I "finished" (they are never really finished) the restoration on this vehicle back in 2008. Its a 68 Dodge Dart Convertible with a 225 slant six and the 904 TF. At which point the engine was rebuilt back to stock specs- cam, pistons, boring, timing chain, bearings, carb rebuilt etc. The distributor gear was replaced 2-4 years ago. Fast forward to this spring: I did a tune up with new points, condenser, plugs, cap rotor and a couple other parts that wont have a bearing on this issue (like a steering gear, pitman arm and idler arm).

This past Sunday I was driving back from a church outing heading down the interstate here in Pittsburgh. I noticed a little "bucking" while driving. Basically the car wasnt moving as smooth as it normally does. Took my foot off the gas and felt the bucking stop, which tells me it was engine related. It started to get increasingly worse, to the point my passenger noticed it. At this time I was at an interchange and was going from one interstate road to the next via a 270 degree turn so I had to decrease speed. When the turn was ending onto the entrance ramp I needed to pick up speed. Well pressed the accelerator and the bucking continued and would not accelerate. Tried putting it in neutral to rev the engine to get it up to speed, that didnt work, further clarification that it was an engine problem. So I pulled off to the side of the road and there we sat.

Once on the side of the road I started checking a few things. The car would not start, just crank. depression of the throttle linkage gave me gas from the accelerator pump, so I know I was getting fuel through the line, past the filter and into the carb (the gas that was in the car was maybe a week old, if that. Got the latest tank from Speedway). So that leads me to ignition. So call the old man and he suggests it is either Coil or condenser. Well I had a spare condenser so I figured Id try and change it out while we wait for the tow truck. Well I didnt have the metric wrench to get the nut off the points so I had to remove the points to get a socket on that nut. Well in the process of this, I dropped those screws numerous of times, and one time it fell in the distributor... So I removed the distributor to basically fish that screw out. After turning it upside down and shaking it a little it came out. Well i got the distributor back in and everything back together for the tow truck guy to come. Needless to say it wouldnt start...

So that puts us where I have been pulling my hair out these past three nights not getting enough sleep or food trying to get this damn thing running. So I changed the condenser and the coil and I am not having any luck what so ever. I took the valve cover off and visually inspected the closing of the intake valve to the timing mark on the damper. I also can crank the engine over and see that after all my fiddling around my timing is 5-8 BTC. Not optimal I know, but it should still run. I set the dwell to 40-43 deg. I can sometimes get it "running" Which means my foot has to be planted on the accelerator, and the engine is still stumbling on itself. No matter how I fluctuate the throttle it will always die and doesnt start again. I have a spark tester and I verified that all 6 plug wires are seeing spark. What am I missing?

Could I have shaken something lose in the distributor when I was shaking it? Which doesnt make sense, it was bucking and wouldnt start before I fiddled with it.

Could of it jumped timing? I dont believe so, but I guess anything is possible. This issue started out very faint than got worse. I was driving at a constant speed at the time this started so I dont see how the timing chain could of jumped.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I am missing? The old man says it could be cap, rotor or plugs. But all of that was changed. I didnt see any cracks in the cap.

I really dont have the money to keep buying the same tune up parts over and over again, so I would like to have a better idea of what the problem is without continually throwing money at it in hopes it rights itself.

I will be away from the car the next few days, which is probably a good thing, so I will be a little delayed with some answers to suggests/tests suggested.

Thank you from a defeated A body Owner...
 
Sounds like the engine does not have that many miles post rebuild I doubt it is cam timing.

Most likely points / condenser, maybe you damaged the dist gear is it a plastic one?

You MUST have a good condenser.

Make sure the points are actually opening and closing AND actually switching current. To do that, put a test lamp on the coil+ and turn the key to "run". If the bulb appears nice and bright, take an alligator lead and ground coil NEG. This should cause the lamp to dim quite a bit. This shows you are getting current through the coil If the lamp appeared somewhat dim, and had no change when you grounded the coil NEG, the points are either naturally closed, or something is shorted to ground. "Bump" the engine with the alligator clip lead "off" and the lamp should brighten up

Now switch your lamp to the coil NEG terminal. You may get a lamp or not. "Bump" the engine and the lamp should go on/ off. If not, you have found the area of the problem..........either the points are not conducting when closed (lamp stays on) or the points are not opening or something shorted / grounded (lamp stays off)

Problem areas are........distributor wire shorted to ground or broken "open" inside

Points so corroded / burned they will not conduct

Points just plain out of adjustment

Bad condenser.......even the new one

Bad coil

Or a power problem........key "run" voltage not making it to coil
 
carfreak6970 said:
As the title suggests, I am at my wits end...

So some background on the car: I "finished" (they are never really finished) the restoration on this vehicle back in 2008. Its a 68 Dodge Dart Convertible with a 225 slant six and the 904 TF. At which point the engine was rebuilt back to stock specs- cam, pistons, boring, timing chain, bearings, carb rebuilt etc. The distributor gear was replaced 2-4 years ago. Fast forward to this spring: I did a tune up with new points, condenser, plugs, cap rotor and a couple other parts that wont have a bearing on this issue (like a steering gear, pitman arm and idler arm).

This past Sunday I was driving back from a church outing heading down the interstate here in Pittsburgh. I noticed a little "bucking" while driving. Basically the car wasnt moving as smooth as it normally does. Took my foot off the gas and felt the bucking stop, which tells me it was engine related. It started to get increasingly worse, to the point my passenger noticed it. At this time I was at an interchange and was going from one interstate road to the next via a 270 degree turn so I had to decrease speed. When the turn was ending onto the entrance ramp I needed to pick up speed. Well pressed the accelerator and the bucking continued and would not accelerate. Tried putting it in neutral to rev the engine to get it up to speed, that didnt work, further clarification that it was an engine problem. So I pulled off to the side of the road and there we sat.

Once on the side of the road I started checking a few things. The car would not start, just crank. depression of the throttle linkage gave me gas from the accelerator pump, so I know I was getting fuel through the line, past the filter and into the carb (the gas that was in the car was maybe a week old, if that. Got the latest tank from Speedway). So that leads me to ignition. So call the old man and he suggests it is either Coil or condenser. Well I had a spare condenser so I figured Id try and change it out while we wait for the tow truck. Well I didnt have the metric wrench to get the nut off the points so I had to remove the points to get a socket on that nut. Well in the process of this, I dropped those screws numerous of times, and one time it fell in the distributor... So I removed the distributor to basically fish that screw out. After turning it upside down and shaking it a little it came out. Well i got the distributor back in and everything back together for the tow truck guy to come. Needless to say it wouldnt start...

So that puts us where I have been pulling my hair out these past three nights not getting enough sleep or food trying to get this damn thing running. So I changed the condenser and the coil and I am not having any luck what so ever. I took the valve cover off and visually inspected the closing of the intake valve to the timing mark on the damper. I also can crank the engine over and see that after all my fiddling around my timing is 5-8 BTC. Not optimal I know, but it should still run. I set the dwell to 40-43 deg. I can sometimes get it "running" Which means my foot has to be planted on the accelerator, and the engine is still stumbling on itself. No matter how I fluctuate the throttle it will always die and doesnt start again. I have a spark tester and I verified that all 6 plug wires are seeing spark. What am I missing?

Could I have shaken something lose in the distributor when I was shaking it? Which doesnt make sense, it was bucking and wouldnt start before I fiddled with it.

Could of it jumped timing? I dont believe so, but I guess anything is possible. This issue started out very faint than got worse. I was driving at a constant speed at the time this started so I dont see how the timing chain could of jumped.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I am missing? The old man says it could be cap, rotor or plugs. But all of that was changed. I didnt see any cracks in the cap.

I really dont have the money to keep buying the same tune up parts over and over again, so I would like to have a better idea of what the problem is without continually throwing money at it in hopes it rights itself.

I will be away from the car the next few days, which is probably a good thing, so I will be a little delayed with some answers to suggests/tests suggested.

Thank you from a defeated A body Owner...
Click to expand...


Pull a spark plugs and ground it while cranking. You should see a blue spark. If it's yellow, it's not hot enough (low voltage) to keep the engine running.
 
67Dart273 said:
Sounds like the engine does not have that many miles post rebuild I doubt it is cam timing.

Most likely points / condenser, maybe you damaged the dist gear is it a plastic one?

You MUST have a good condenser.

Make sure the points are actually opening and closing AND actually switching current. To do that, put a test lamp on the coil+ and turn the key to "run". If the bulb appears nice and bright, take an alligator lead and ground coil NEG. This should cause the lamp to dim quite a bit. This shows you are getting current through the coil If the lamp appeared somewhat dim, and had no change when you grounded the coil NEG, the points are either naturally closed, or something is shorted to ground. "Bump" the engine with the alligator clip lead "off" and the lamp should brighten up

Now switch your lamp to the coil NEG terminal. You may get a lamp or not. "Bump" the engine and the lamp should go on/ off. If not, you have found the area of the problem..........either the points are not conducting when closed (lamp stays on) or the points are not opening or something shorted / grounded (lamp stays off)

Problem areas are........distributor wire shorted to ground or broken "open" inside

Points so corroded / burned they will not conduct

Points just plain out of adjustment

Bad condenser.......even the new one

Bad coil

Or a power problem........key "run" voltage not making it to coil
Click to expand...
About that final statement... Symptom/scenario described does read like failing electrical.
The starter operates on a big direct wire but everything else operates on a separate smaller wire routed through several connections. So a good battery and good starter operation doesn't tell all.
If the little connector before the fusible link should be burned nearly in two, you could have enough current to operate the starter relay but not enough to operate everything else. Of course weak connections at ignition switch, bulkhead, and more also cause low voltage.
I had one once that jump started and idled OK but step on the brakes and the draw of those few little lamps would shut the engine down. That one was a bad battery. Same lack of sufficient voltage supplied.
 
It could be the ballast resistor. However it was to my understanding that if it was the ballast resistor the car would only run when key was in the start position. I can get it running (barely) for how ever short of time. I did put a new one on just in case and that did not help my situation.

I did part of the coil test suggested above. The test light was grounded, the key was on and the light shined bright once I touched the positive side of the coil. It also flashed during cranking when I touched the negative side of the coil. I did not try having the test lamp on the positive side of the coil and grounding the negative side... I will put that on my list to check. Thank you for that.

I guess to check whether or not the distributor wire is good is to test the resistance of said wire? and/or just attach an alligator clip to the negative side of the coil and the other side to the points?

What other adjustments do the points need to go through besides setting the dwell? I have the dwell set at approximately 42 deg (within the specification of the service manual)

I have heard of these new bad condenser issues... however I am on my 3rd new one from another supplier... Is there a way to test condensers? I read online that you would need an analog multi-meter and charge and discharge it with it. I dont have an analog meter but a digital one.

Could new points with barely 1000 miles already be burned? - I mean I guess if the ballast resistor started to lose resistance it could burn the points away quicker... Newby question, how do burnt points appear compared to used ones? I guess Ill have to check the ohms at the resister now. Ill put that on my to check list.

Wouldnt the coil test described by 67Dart273 prove it is a good coil?

I did pull the plugs and tried cranking to see a blue spark. I didnt see one when I tried to ground it with an alligator clip. But I am not to sure if that was because the battery voltage was low. having a hard time trying to test and investigate all this with a battery that cant charge in a car that doesnt run. I have a battery charger but it really cant keep up with all the cranking. But none the less, something I need to verify. Ill put that on the list to check.

Redfish. So you are suggesting either weak connections or the fusible link? I didnt touch the connectors at the firewall/ignition switch since the car has been put back together in 2008. I have put about 20000-25000 miles on it since. So if a connection problem was going to come to fruition wouldnt it have happened before now? your second point about the fusible link gone bad, how would I be able to check this?

Thank you everyone for taking time out of your day for helping me on this, I really appreciate it.
 
carfreak6970 said:
It could be the ballast resistor. However it was to my understanding that if it was the ballast resistor the car would only run when key was in the start position. I can get it running (barely) for how ever short of time. I did put a new one on just in case and that did not help my situation.

I did part of the coil test suggested above. The test light was grounded, the key was on and the light shined bright once I touched the positive side of the coil. It also flashed during cranking when I touched the negative side of the coil. I did not try having the test lamp on the positive side of the coil and grounding the negative side... I will put that on my list to check. Thank you for that.

I guess to check whether or not the distributor wire is good is to test the resistance of said wire? and/or just attach an alligator clip to the negative side of the coil and the other side to the points?

What other adjustments do the points need to go through besides setting the dwell? I have the dwell set at approximately 42 deg (within the specification of the service manual)

I have heard of these new bad condenser issues... however I am on my 3rd new one from another supplier... Is there a way to test condensers? I read online that you would need an analog multi-meter and charge and discharge it with it. I dont have an analog meter but a digital one.

Could new points with barely 1000 miles already be burned? - I mean I guess if the ballast resistor started to lose resistance it could burn the points away quicker... Newby question, how do burnt points appear compared to used ones? I guess Ill have to check the ohms at the resister now. Ill put that on my to check list.

Wouldnt the coil test described by 67Dart273 prove it is a good coil?

I did pull the plugs and tried cranking to see a blue spark. I didnt see one when I tried to ground it with an alligator clip. But I am not to sure if that was because the battery voltage was low. having a hard time trying to test and investigate all this with a battery that cant charge in a car that doesnt run. I have a battery charger but it really cant keep up with all the cranking. But none the less, something I need to verify. Ill put that on the list to check.

Redfish. So you are suggesting either weak connections or the fusible link? I didnt touch the connectors at the firewall/ignition switch since the car has been put back together in 2008. I have put about 20000-25000 miles on it since. So if a connection problem was going to come to fruition wouldnt it have happened before now? your second point about the fusible link gone bad, how would I be able to check this?

Thank you everyone for taking time out of your day for helping me on this, I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...
So something simple as a bad battery could very well be the fault. That one that I mentioned above, that was wifes 93 Lebarron. She had started it and drove to town no problem. It wouldn't start again without jumper cables. That battery had developed a sudden internal short. So have a good battery first. If that doesn't cure it, then you'll have to further diagnose, visually inspect connections, break out the Ohms meter. A voltage meter can show 12 volts everywhere but that doesn't tell all either. Amperage is also req'd.
 
The fuel filter has about 1000 miles on it as well. I disconnected the fuel before and after the fuel filter. Both times fuel came gushing out.

in a fit of rage I took the battery out of my 2016 Subaru to continue cranking. It cranked the motor alright, but didnt change the outcome while running.

I dont know if this has any bearing on the matter, but the connector on the distributor side of the ballast resister was hot to the touch during all of this (I never really touched that wire when it was running right, so I have no idea if that is normal or not) and the coil was equally as hot to the touch (same unknown comparison to the wire described above)
 
carfreak6970 said:
The fuel filter has about 1000 miles on it as well. I disconnected the fuel before and after the fuel filter. Both times fuel came gushing out.

in a fit of rage I took the battery out of my 2016 Subaru to continue cranking. It cranked the motor alright, but didnt change the outcome while running.

I dont know if this has any bearing on the matter, but the connector on the distributor side of the ballast resister was hot to the touch during all of this (I never really touched that wire when it was running right, so I have no idea if that is normal or not) and the coil was equally as hot to the touch (same unknown comparison to the wire described above)
Click to expand...
coil hooked up backwards? or defective? If it's cranking a lot, they can heat up, but...
 
If its a points distributor, you can run a hot wire to the coil right from the battery and see what ya got, this "overlays " the primary side( Ign switch, ballast resisitor) I wouldn't run it too long as it will burn the points, straight voltage going to the points. But if the car starts, you have narrowed it down to the primary side of the circuit. Also, be mindful of fouling and flooding, cranking the engine may be loading up the cylinders with gas when you finally do get spark, it may still not fire off, but it should pop and backfire. You may want to pull a plug or two if you get it to pop and backfire.
 
I checked and rechecked the wiring on the blasted coil. The negative side is going to the distributor and the positive side is connected to the engine harness. And Its a new coil so it shouldnt be defective... but for all I know it could be. the tests I have run on it to this point suggest it is working.

I did pull the plugs and only number three was wet. All the other ones are a little blackened... It did pop and backfire a couple times but I took this as timing being off. Now what does a fouled plug look like? and how would one go about cleaning them?
 
carfreak6970 said:
I checked and rechecked the wiring on the blasted coil. The negative side is going to the distributor and the positive side is connected to the engine harness. And Its a new coil so it shouldnt be defective... but for all I know it could be. the tests I have run on it to this point suggest it is working.

I did pull the plugs and only number three was wet. All the other ones are a little blackened... It did pop and backfire a couple times but I took this as timing being off. Now what does a fouled plug look like? and how would one go about cleaning them?
Click to expand...
just clean them with brake cleaner, if you don't have a bead blaster
 
Fouled would be black. There are different forms of fouled, but we are suspecting a "rich" condition or "carbon fouled" due to weak spark and unburnt fuel. I have been here before, and I will share my story another time but, if you suspect the plugs are fouled, or flooded, they will be black for carbon fouled, and wet/smelling of gas for flooded. the center electrode also becomes saturated for lack of a better word causing problems. You can clean them, but if you have the $$$ buy a new set. I have cleaned them, by using brake cleaner as mentioned, and also running sandpaper across the electrodes. If a flooding /fouling condition is culprit, a new set of plugs should have it firing right up. If you beleive you have spark and adequate fuel, it may be worth a try to throw a fresh set of plugs in. In my case I had a leaky Thermoquad that was flooding out my plugs, I would play around for an hour or two and swap plugs and it would start right up. I had two sets of plugs to play around with. keep in mind if you find this to be the issue, you will have to figure out why the plugs are fouling out, which is most likely a carb ajustment in conjunction with weak spark. In my case i converted to electronic ignition and bought a new carburetor.
 
OK if you have dwell MOST of my first post is "cleared." Dwell means the points ARE opening / closing, there is no shorted/ open primary wire, and the condenser is not shorted........but it might not be "good."

SO NOW

1.....We might be losiing power to the coil. This is easy to check.........just take a clip lead and jumper battery power direct to coil POS, then check spark. DANGER!!! DO NOT leave that connected ANY longer than necessary to test or try to start and immediately unhook if not running!!!

2.....Might STILL be a bad (open) condenser. Find another and you can just "clip lead" (alligator) to the neg side of coil!!! You don't have to dig into the dist to test

3....Might be a bad coil. Only thing you can do here is "throw a part" at it. Coil DOES NOT need to be grounded/ mounted. Just "lay" it in somewere and connect, you can even "alligator" clip it if you have enough test / alligator leads!!

TESTING COIL. You need to get a GOOD method for testing for coil spark. Go to the parts store and buy an inline spark tester. I have a Lisle, which is handy (when I can find it) because it's adjustable.

DO NOT trust your coil HT wire. THAT MAY be the whole problem!!! Hook your "test gap" right at the coil tower to ground

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Notes about cranking:

Notice above I mentioned "jumper power to the coil" with an alligator lead. Here's the thing about cranking power to the coil VS "running" power to the coil

RUNNING: Power to the coil goes THROUGH the ballast. This means that part of the circuit can have it's own problems, IE bad ignition switch, bad connection on the dark blue/ run wire through the bulkhead or ballast resistor

CRANKING: The above is powered down and BYPASSED by the brown start bypass circuit. This comes off IGN2 from the ignition switch, brown wire, through the BULKHEAD and to the coil + side of the ballast. THAT circuit could be "bad" ignition switch or bad connection in bulkhead.

BY USING an alligator clip, you eliminate all wiring and the ballast, all you have left is points / condenser/ coil.........and if you are testing spark at the coil.......you have eliminated cap/ rotor/ plug and coil wires

THIS MEANS it is IMPORTANT to check COIL for spark so you can say "WE HAVE SPARK" and THEN worry about the coil wire? is bad? the rotor ? is bad? the cap? the wires? the plugs? LAST
 
have you cleaned out the carb?

Your description of how it degraded sounds like it may have gotten plugged up? I doubt it though since you had a fuel filter. But you describe that the spark is fine so that's where I'd go next. Clean the carb completely and see what happens.

You can usually tell if the carb is a major problem by using starting fluid. With a friend cranking the engine spray a little bit down the throat of the carb and work the throttle. If it runs off starting fluid but dies when you stop it's definitely fuel related.

If it doesn't run at all with the starting fluid test then it's spark/timing
 
carfreak6970 said:
I checked and rechecked the wiring on the blasted coil. The negative side is going to the distributor and the positive side is connected to the engine harness. And Its a new coil so it shouldnt be defective... but for all I know it could be. the tests I have run on it to this point suggest it is working.
Click to expand...

As I said CHECK for spark right at the coil. Then you can stop worrying about all this and move on to cap/ rotor / wires/ plugs
 
kiss said:
have you cleaned out the carb?

Your description of how it degraded sounds like it may have gotten plugged up? I doubt it though since you had a fuel filter. But you describe that the spark is fine so that's where I'd go next. Clean the carb completely and see what happens.

You can usually tell if the carb is a major problem by using starting fluid. With a friend cranking the engine spray a little bit down the throat of the carb and work the throttle. If it runs off starting fluid but dies when you stop it's definitely fuel related.

If it doesn't run at all with the starting fluid test then it's spark/timing
Click to expand...
those inline fuel filters don't catch all that much stuff. They're better than nothing, but just barely. I hate to say it, but those ceramic filters used by GM for many years, work much, much better.
 
^^This is true, even they are not perfect. The old Landruiser I fought for years, had fine dusty rust that would "shake up" from the tank. I ran an inline filter, an AC sediment bowl, and when running a QJ or Holley, STILL ran the brass/ ceramic little "thimble" and EVEN THEN stuff "got past"

It would start to "idle bad" and I "knew"

1946-64-Chevy-AC-Glass-Bowl-Fuel-Filter-Assembly.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
^^This is true, even they are not perfect. The old Landruiser I fought for years, had fine dusty rust that would "shake up" from the tank. I ran an inline filter, an AC sediment bowl, and when running a QJ or Holley, STILL ran the brass/ ceramic little "thimble" and EVEN THEN stuff "got past"

It would start to "idle bad" and I "knew"

View attachment 1715061891
Click to expand...
I've never had a stock type inline filter on a mopar plug up from catching too much stuff, but I had a ceramic inlet filter on my mother in law's 350 2bbl Malibu wagon plug up. Funny thing, it didn't look plugged up, but all I did was remove it, and the car ran fine, whereas before it wouldn't run at all.
 
kiss said:
You can usually tell if the carb is a major problem by using starting fluid. With a friend cranking the engine spray a little bit down the throat of the carb and work the throttle. If it runs off starting fluid but dies when you stop it's definitely fuel related.

If it doesn't run at all with the starting fluid test then it's spark/timing
Click to expand...
Since starting fluid will take the oil off of the cylinder walls, I would recommend 1/2 a tablespoon of gas or so poured directly down the carb throat and then immediately start it. If it runs well for a few seconds, then it is a carb problem.

And not to dismiss any suggestions or knowledge, but you can't go wrong to follow the procedures laid out be 67Dart273.
 
kiss said:
ballast resistor
Click to expand...
BALAST RESISTOR DWELL.. WIRE COIL TO DISTRIBUTOR. GROUND ON RELAY. P.S. QUIK QUES. DOES THE BOWL VENT ON A HOLLEY1920 NEED TO GO 2 CANISTOR OR CAN I PLUG.CARB . IS OFF &ON AS FAR AS PERFORMANCE GOES?
 
Last edited:
defwu1 said:
BALAST RESISTOR DWELL.. WIRE COIL TO DISTRIBUTOR. GROUND ON RELAY. P.S. QUIK QUES. DOES THE BOWL VENT ON A HOLLEY1920 NEED TO GO 2 CANISTOR OR CAN I PLUG.CARB . IS OFF &ON AS FAR AS PERFORMANCE GOES?
Click to expand...
Bowl vent to canister or leave open to atmosphere. Do not plug.
 
First off, Happy Fourth of July everyone.

Second, I apologize if I am coming off a little short. I appreciate all the help and suggestions, it is just that this thing has me really worked up and it is difficult to keep my cool about this situation.

But an update:

First I removed every plug and cleaned them. They all had this fine black soot looking substance all over the white part of the spark plug. So I cleaned everything with brake cleaner, sanded the electrode and corresponding tab. Shot them again with brake cleaner and checked the gap. They all gapped to .035 per the service manual. I reinstalled the spark plugs and used more dio-electric tune up grease on the spark plug to wire connection. I connected a wire to the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the coil. cranked the car and it started running. It ended up stumbling and stalling again. So I repeated this coil test and once it started running I removed the wire that was connected to the positive side of the battery and it continued to run while stumbling and then it died. Could not get it running again.

Next Test I alligator clipped another condenser to the negative side of the coil, clamped off the fuel between the fuel filter and the carb and started to crank. This time it started running and stayed running. again it was stumbling. I removed the clamp on the fuel line and set up my timing light. I could see it was way advance. I guess it was like 20-30 deg. Couldnt tell for sure since my timing mark doesnt go that high and my gun doesnt have an adjustable advance feature. So by the time I was able to get a wrench on my distributor to loosen the nut to adjust time. It died and would not start again. - as I am sitting here writing this, it may not have been that far advance. During this test the vacuum advance was still hooked up and I think it was still on the fast idle, which could account for why the timing was so far advance.

Currently the new coil is on this car and has been for all of these tests. So I still had the old coil so I decided to hook that one up. I did and nothing changed... It was at this point I saw the connector that goes on the negative side of the coil seemed lose. So I spliced a new one on and connected the new coil again. I cranked and it started up again and ran. Again it was stumbling. I could not get my light out fast enough and check the timing before it died. At this point I decided to call it a night. Interesting to note. That on this test I did not have another condenser connected to the negative side of the coil.

I dont have an inline spark tester, I have one that you place on the outside of the spark plug wires and it did light up and pulsate on the spark plug wires and the coil to cap wire.

So If I gathered this right. the condenser I have is working? the coil is working? The ignition switch and bulkhead connector are working?

In the middle of all this I was on the phone with the old man and he asked for some pictures of the cap and rotor. I attached them below. He feels the two "clean" brass marks on the rotor are from arcing, and he claims to see a crack somewhere in one of those cap pictures. I cant see this said crack. What do you guys think? There is some white residue on about three of the cap brass connectors...

image1.JPG


image2.JPG


image3.JPG


He claims I should install a new cap and rotor due to how this stuff looks. Again I am not to sure if this is normal or not, I never inspected these parts this close before - never really had a reason too until now.

anything else I am missing?
 
I don't like the way the rotor tip is worn. The spark normally jumps from sharp edge to sharp edge. Could the cap have been cocked on top of the distributor body? The reason I ask is the wear on the cap terminals looks odd and uneven. That coupled with the rotor tip wear makes me suspicious. Could the cap not be indexed properly on the dist body?
 
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