Front turn signals not working

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ChrisN68

ChrisN68

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So, here is the situation: 69' Barracuda, all new dash harness, new turn signal switch. When I put the turn signals on, the rear ones flash fine, the front ones do not light up at all (on either side). Same with the hazard lights - rear work, front do not. What's really confusing me, though, is that the parking lights in front work fine, so I don't think it is the wires going from the bulkhead to the parking lights. According to the schematic, the power to the parking lights runs on the same wires that power the signals, at least from the bulkhead forward.

I have pulled the steering wheel and checked the connections at the signal switch and have continuity from the signal switch to the harness connection coming out of the steering wheel. I also replaced the flasher, just in case, but no change. Any suggestions of what to check next, and what I'm looking for? Would a bad hazard switch (on the dash) cause the fronts to not work even though the rears and the parking lights work?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated!
 
9 times out of 10 it's always a grounding issue for lighting not to operate.
 
I agree, but if the signals weren't grounded properly, would the parking lights still light? They are the same unit with a single ground wire, to the best of my knowledge.
 
Turn signal wiring should be on the same grounding circuit (at the socket). What about checking at the firewall wiring block for signal flash. Should be one for lights and the other for the left side and right side flash. I have schematics for engine side block to follow the locations?
 
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Make sure you have the correct sockets/ pigtails/ bulbs such as 1157 or 1034. If it's a grounding issue you usually get weird results, like, the park lights work but go out when flashing, etc.

Get a test lamp, probe the socket and see if you have power when the hazards are on. If not, move to the connector coming out of the column and probe there. You need a shop manual/ wiring diagram
 
OK, thanks for the suggestions, that's where I'll start. I have the shop manual. Open to any other suggestions, too - I won't get to it until Saturday, so I'd like to have a laundry list of things to try...
 
crewchief said:
9 times out of 10 it's always a grounding issue for lighting not to operate.
Click to expand...
Yep, and the turn indicators in the inst' panel will come on with the park lamps too. Front park works because its using the turn circuit and those inst panel bulbs for a ground path.
These front fixtures are supposed to ground out there at radiator support along with the headlights.
 
That makes sense, and would explain the park lights working while the turns do not. I'll check all of these things Saturday morning and post what I find out - thank you!
 
Got home today and had some time to do a preliminary check, and here is what I found, if anyone has any thoughts:

1. Grounding the light socket and/or the parking light housing direct to the negative terminal of the battery did not produce any signal in the front. Not sure if this is the proper way to test if poor grounding at the radiator support is the issue, but if not, some direction on how to better check this would be appreciated.

2. I then pulled the harness off at the bulkhead, connected negative to ground and tested ports V, U, T, S, W, X, Y (z is blank) coming out of the bulkhead and found the following:

U is the only port that has 12v power when the parking lights are on
U and Y have 12v when headlights are on full.

S and V have no power with lights off and signal switch turned either left or right. Same with hazard switch on - no power

V does have flashing power (between roughly 3-12v alternating) only when the right signal is on and the parking lights are on. It has no signal when lights are off.

S has no signal under any of the above conditions...

Any thoughts on deciphering this crazy mess, I'm open to suggestions as to what to try next. I'll pore over the wiring diagrams later, figured I'd get this out there while it's still earlier in the day...
 
S seems its for LT turn signal, should have power only when signal is on (regardless of parking light power).
V is for RT (separate circuit)
I would go to the block under the dash and continue tracing

69 Barracuda B.jpg


69 Barracuda A.jpg
 
I trace it back to the flasher block, do you have signal flash there?
 
I have the schematics, and I'm guessing the flasher block is next. That will be tomorrow's task, so thank you. I'll let you know what I find. If anyone else has suggestions for what else to check on, I'm happy to listen. Would rather crawl under there with a few ideas.
 
In the beginning post you stated "replaced flasher". There are 2 of them. Hazard flasher is a heavy duty type, to flash 4 bulbs, mounted at the steering column support. Signal flasher is a standard type mounted right side of ash tray hanger. You replaced the wrong one? Replace both = non question.
But then this part isn't correct either...
ChrisN68 said:
V does have flashing power (between roughly 3-12v alternating) only when the right signal is on and the parking lights are on. It has no signal when lights are off.
Click to expand...
The signal circuit is supposed to get power from the ignition switch and not the headlight switch. I can't imagine this fault being at the headlight switch but it could be inside the fuse box. There are some very simple buss bars in there with male/female spade terminals. Those could be shifted/crossed.
 
Thank you both for responding, it has helped me make some level of progress. Here is the current status:

Following Crewchief's question, I pulled the hazard switch and found that I was not getting continuity on the four poles in either switch position, even though I am getting appropriate power through the red wire. I took the switch apart, cleaned and re-greased and put the switch back together, and now have continuity at all four poles when in the on position (for anyone needing to take apart the hazard switch, it's easy, just a spring and a floating copper contact inside).

This morning I reinstalled the switch (tested to make sure I still have power when the switch is on), and now the left side hazards, front and rear, work fine. I still get nothing from the passenger side front.

I tested for power at the bulkhead, and I am of course getting the flashing voltage for the driver's side (3-12V alternating), but am getting only a very weak voltage reading on the passenger side (less than 1v, just enough to show a reading).

To answer RedFish, I replaced the signal flasher one by the glove box. I see the hazard flasher under the column, but it looks the same as the signal one (If it is supposed to be a different one, do you happen to know a part number? I can't find anything in the service manual). There's no harm in replacing it and at least eliminating that potential issue. However, now that the driver's side is working fine, I wonder if it is likely that the flasher unit is bad (that is, would only one side not work because of a faulty unit?)?

Open to suggestions for what to try next...
 
I might be wrong in this but I think the turn signal flasher is a two prong unit and the four way unit is three. I would look at mine but it's in storage for the winter.
 
SIGNAL STAT 552 12V FLASHER RELAY 2 TERMINALS
SIGNAL STAT 550 12V FOUR FLASHER 3 TERMINALS
 
Hmm, both the service manual diagram for 69 Barracuda and the harness itself have only two prong receptacles for both... Maybe the 3-prong is for other years/models?
 
Possibly, I wish I could look under my dash to be more definitive. I see by the schematic that the wiring shows two prong sockets for both flashers.
 
I just wanted to say thank you to Crewchief, 67Dart, and Redfish. After a month of torture, nearly everything works, and your suggestions helped me figure things out.

I replaced both of the flasher units, just to be safe. I also ended up replacing the rear wiring harness, as it was giving me sporadic lighting in the back, and there was no point fighting with it.

The hazard switch itself was not putting out power to the other prongs when in the on position, so I ended up taking the hazard switch apart, cleaning up the contacts, and reinstalling. That solved some of the power to the front parking lights issue, and I had power to all the prongs when on.

For the front parking lights, it turned out that the spring-loaded bulb contacts in one of the lights had somehow rotated and gotten jammed inside the housing. It was jammed in a position where that light bulb wasn't making clean contact; once I forced it back into position (there is a guide tab in that housing), the light worked fine.

The turn signal switch was the real culprit here, though. The contact wire on the replacement cam was slightly too long and was hitting the plastic instead of the contact point for the right rear signal. I trimmed that, and the signal worked, but the brake light did not. Took the column apart yet again and bent those contact wires up a bit, so they made contact while in the neutral position, and finally, everything worked. What a headache!

What's left? The dash turn signals don't light when the signals are on, and the right half of the dash doesn't illuminate when the headlights are on (the left side does). All the bulbs are new and are LED, but I've heard that if the LED lights are rotated 180 degrees in the socket, they don't light (?). Not sure if that is true or not, but when I can get under there, that will be one of the first things I try. Any suggestions on what else to check, I'm open to it.

Thanks again!
 
Did you have working lights on the dash panel with the old filament bulbs? I'm not a fan of the led type for automotive use.
 
if all else fails use your arm out the window,lol.just kidding.wiring can be the most frustrating.it gives me problems, even simple,basic wiring on these old cars can be a bear.my rears were giving me fits,i ran a seperate ground wire to the socket to the body and all was good. goos luck
 
They did work before the resto, so maybe I'll go back to traditional bulbs. It seemed like a good idea at the time LOL. Part of the plan will be to swap a few out and see if that changes things.

And yes, on all my trips to the various shops for alignment, etc., I have been using the arm out the window routine!

:)
 
I cannot speak to your model car, but these are "generally" some of the problems in my 67, not necessarily just for dash lamps

1.....Harness connector pins were either loose or broken on the PC board. There's a thread on this board that is very good for repair

Printed circuit pins repair

2....May not apply to your model, on mine the gauge limiter contacts were not making contact with the board traces. In the thread posted just above that is addressed

3...Because the board is copper it corrodes and oxidizes. This leaves lots of problems for the dash lamps, clean the copper, replace the lamp sockets, or clean the socket contacts and bend the contacts so then make more firm contact

There is NO reason you cannot lay the cluster down, look CAREFULLY at the traces, and figure out "where stuff connects." For example, all "illumination" dash lamps are grounded on one contact, and paralleled together, but in cars with TWO circuit boards there is a jumper connector in the harness that connects that "split" circuit together on the two boards. This is a clue. If one half is working, the other not, it's likely one of those two interconnect pins on the two boards.

4...Gauge stud nuts were loose corroded, gauges were not making contact. Loosen / tighten the nuts or replace them

5....IVR was bad. (If you have a Rally dash, the IVR is built into the fuel gauge)
 
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