Strut rod bushings for 1972 A-body

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mopower440

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In the process of rebuilding the front end of my dart. I got the new Moog strut rod bushings from rockauto. They are different than the factory one for sure. The original one i removed was a one piece design and this moog new one is a 2 piece design where the washers dish 'out' instead of cupping around the bushing. I have read a few posts that this is a new improved design but also read that the rubber is crumbling away in a short period of time and causing clunk when braking. Before i use these things, im wanting any and all feedback from anyone using these because if they are not lasting, i sure dont want to install them just to end up re-doing it in a short period.. The also have the one piece desig from delco available so if these moogs are for sure a problem, i need to know so i can get the other ones. Any info is greatly appreciated!
Thanks
 
I have had the new kind in my wagon for the past 15 years with no problems at all. They are Moog brand
 
valiantwagonguy said:
I have had the new kind in my wagon for the past 15 years with no problems at all. They are Moog brand
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I'm just getting ready to install the moog 2 piece strut bushings as well and it seems so backwards to have the cups facing outward, but I guess its how you did it Valiantwagonguy?
Even if I look at non-adj struts from Mancini, the cup goes more in the direction that would seem logical.
Calvert Racing Chromoly Strut Rod Set
 
you'll be fine with either.I've always used the old one piece original style that will last years and years.
 
ChuckDock said:
I'm just getting ready to install the moog 2 piece strut bushings as well and it seems so backwards to have the cups facing outward, but I guess its how you did it Valiantwagonguy?
Even if I look at non-adj struts from Mancini, the cup goes more in the direction that would seem logical.
Calvert Racing Chromoly Strut Rod Set
Click to expand...
They go backwards .I know,I had the same problem wrapping my mind around that but that's what the instructions call for. The theory I guess is that when you put pressure on the middle they expand outward towards the outer edges and tighten everything up.
 
valiantwagonguy said:
They go backwards .I know,I had the same problem wrapping my mind around that but that's what the instructions call for. The theory I guess is that when you put pressure on the middle they expand outward towards the outer edges and tighten everything up.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll install that way then.
 
mopower440 said:
The original one i removed was a one piece design and this moog new one is a 2 piece design where the washers dish 'out' instead of cupping around the bushing.
Click to expand...
Just be sure whatever you are reading is the same as applies to your car. Much confusion out there.
If yours originally had the one piece bushing, then the strut is the earlier design. The improved replacement is not the same as the bushings & washers used on the later strut rod. @Oldmanmopar has posted pictures of the differences. IIRC its the later struts that reverse the dished washers. But check everything.
 
Mattax said:
Just be sure whatever you are reading is the same as applies to your car. Much confusion out there.
If yours originally had the one piece bushing, then the strut is the earlier design. The improved replacement is not the same as the bushings & washers used on the later strut rod. @Oldmanmopar has posted pictures of the differences. IIRC its the later struts that reverse the dished washers. But check everything.
Click to expand...
I cant find the specific post from oldmanmopar, but I did find one he wrote and he said that off set uca bushings aren't needed for a correct alignment. After that I stopped reading his posts.
My 67 barracuda did have the 1 piece bushing. The strut ends have the course threads, but I have no clue now which way to install the washers.
 
ChuckDock said:
I cant find the specific post from oldmanmopar,
Click to expand...
It's old. Also, its true that offset UCA bushings are not usually needed for correct alignment. They are needed when you need exceed the factory range.

"The 73 and up strut rods have a shorter flange to flange length and require a thicker two piece strut rod bushing with a sleeve . 72 and back are one piece usually but two piece are available without the sleeve.

An easy way to tell what rods you have is the 73 up have a coarse thread in the front the 72 and back are fine thread in the front."

strutrod1-1-jpg.jpg


strutrod2-1-jpg.jpg


This why its important to have the set with the correct inner diameter / sleeve and stack up lengths.
strutrod3-1-jpg.jpg
 
Mattax said:
It's old. Also, its true that offset UCA bushings are not usually needed for correct alignment. They are needed when you need exceed the factory range.

"The 73 and up strut rods have a shorter flange to flange length and require a thicker two piece strut rod bushing with a sleeve . 72 and back are one piece usually but two piece are available without the sleeve.

An easy way to tell what rods you have is the 73 up have a coarse thread in the front the 72 and back are fine thread in the front."

View attachment 1715329798

View attachment 1715329799

This why its important to have the set with the correct inner diameter / sleeve and stack up lengths.
View attachment 1715329800
Click to expand...

I just ran out to the garage and verified my strut rods have the coarse threads up front. Odd since its a 1967. So I have the 73 and up style then.
So, reading your post, I'm supposed to have a sleeve in there but when I took this apart, it didn't. Also, the new kit didn't come with one. This sucks with how confusing it all is. I think I'm seeing why some folks just gut the front end and go all aftermarket.
As far as the alignment goes, exceeding the factory requirements happens when you go to radials. I'm definitely never running bias ply tires.

strut.jpg
 
Looks like a fine thread to me, but on the other side of screen. ;)
Looks like about 22 tpi?

ChuckDock said:
As far as the alignment goes, exceeding the factory requirements happens when you go to radials.
Click to expand...
That's just not true. A does not equal B. It depends on a number of factors.
Some tires are more camber hungry than others. Some cars either due to orignal assembly or because the rear has been raised, have trouble getting much positive caster.
Generally the most camber hungery are competition tires. But with competition tires, its always easy to find out the manufacturers recommended best working range. Then on the car, work out the best tune with shoe polish and pyrometer.
 
Mattax said:
Looks like a fine thread to me, but on the other side of screen. ;)
Looks like about 22 tpi?


That's just not true. A does not equal B. It depends on a number of factors.
Some tires are more camber hungry than others. Some cars either due to orignal assembly or because the rear has been raised, have trouble getting much positive caster.
Generally the most camber hungery are competition tires. But with competition tires, its always easy to find out the manufacturers recommended best working range. Then on the car, work out the best tune with shoe polish and pyrometer.
Click to expand...
Now I'm not sure if its course or fine, lol. I get 16 tpi when I count them. I'm just not sure what is considered coarse or fine, but assumed it was coarse. Time to google. I sure hope you are right because then that means I can put this front end back together this weekend. Assuming it was a 1973 strut, I ordered the bushing kit for that this morning but may not need those parts after all.
My car drives good up until 55, but after that it was sketchy. The alignment guy couldn't get anything close to what this site says is good for radial tires so thats why I installed the offset uca bushing like it says to do all over this forum.
While doing those uca bushings, I ended up doing the lca bushings, got a set of pst 1.03 Torsion bars and a firmfeel huge sway bar. I really want disc's on front but thats just a ton more money considering i would have to replace my wheels and tires as well. My tires are nothing racing or anything like that either, and it doesnt sit high in the back. Check out my Garage for pics.
 
Mattax said:
Looks like a fine thread to me, but on the other side of screen. ;)
Looks like about 22 tpi?


That's just not true. A does not equal B. It depends on a number of factors.
Some tires are more camber hungry than others. Some cars either due to orignal assembly or because the rear has been raised, have trouble getting much positive caster.
Generally the most camber hungery are competition tires. But with competition tires, its always easy to find out the manufacturers recommended best working range. Then on the car, work out the best tune with shoe polish and pyrometer.
Click to expand...
Sorry if you saw a post, then it was deleted by me...
Anyways, good catch, my threads are fine so I get to play in the garage this weekend with my correct parts (hopefully)
 
ChuckDock said:
Now I'm not sure if its course or fine, lol. I get 16 tpi when I count them. I'm just not sure what is considered coarse or fine, but assumed it was coarse. Time to google. I sure hope you are right because then that means I can put this front end back together this weekend. Assuming it was a 1973 strut, I ordered the bushing kit for that this morning but may not need those parts after all.
My car drives good up until 55, but after that it was sketchy. The alignment guy couldn't get anything close to what this site says is good for radial tires so thats why I installed the offset uca bushing like it says to do all over this forum.
While doing those uca bushings, I ended up doing the lca bushings, got a set of pst 1.03 Torsion bars and a firmfeel huge sway bar. I really want disc's on front but thats just a ton more money considering i would have to replace my wheels and tires as well. My tires are nothing racing or anything like that either, and it doesnt sit high in the back. Check out my Garage for pics.
Click to expand...
Well, mine are on the car, and I don't think I counted the tpi. Someone here should know.
I count 15 threads on the coarse threaded one in Steve's top photo.
and 22 threads on the fine one ('73 up) in th esame photo.
If the threaded portions of both are about 1.25", then your 16 tpi count would be closer to the fine threaded earlier rod.

I think what you've got will be fine, and no harm in using the offset UCA bushings. The car should feel better with the 1" t-bars and the front sway bar.

When you or your guy goes to align it, make sure the first step is to set the ride hieght.
Moving the ride height up decreases caster, lowering it increases it.
I'd start with the ride height on the lower side of the spec unless your roads particularly bad. The 67-9 Barracudas all had ride height spec'd lower than their Valiant and Dart counterparts. It may be one reason its easier for those cars to get more negative camber and positive caster without the offset UCA bushings. Looking at a 71 FSM now, the 2 door models similarly were spec'd lower.
upload_2019-5-3_17-41-17.png


upload_2019-5-3_17-37-34.png




Then once the ride height is set, go for camber and caster.
The factory spec's assume high crowned roads. That's why the prefered settings were different from left to right.
IMO if you can get -1/2º camber, and 3/4 to 1.5º caster, that would be fine starting point for street tires.
Then for toe, factory spec is good. 1/8" in target, 3/32 to 5/32" in acceptable range. Toe out while driving the car will want to follow ruts in the road.
 
Mattax said:
Well, mine are on the car, and I don't think I counted the tpi. Someone here should know.
I count 15 threads on the coarse threaded one in Steve's top photo.
and 22 threads on the fine one ('73 up) in th esame photo.
If the threaded portions of both are about 1.25", then your 16 tpi count would be closer to the fine threaded earlier rod.

I think what you've got will be fine, and no harm in using the offset UCA bushings. The car should feel better with the 1" t-bars and the front sway bar.

When you or your guy goes to align it, make sure the first step is to set the ride hieght.
Moving the ride height up decreases caster, lowering it increases it.
I'd start with the ride height on the lower side of the spec unless your roads particularly bad. The 67-9 Barracudas all had ride height spec'd lower than their Valiant and Dart counterparts. It may be one reason its easier for those cars to get more negative camber and positive caster without the offset UCA bushings. Looking at a 71 FSM now, the 2 door models similarly were spec'd lower.
View attachment 1715330001

View attachment 1715329997
I actually bought the QuickTrick alignment setup. It was pricey but I have a feeling I'll be aligning it a lot as I go, and then I can do all my other cars I maintain. (3 driving kids, wife....like a fleet of vehicles)
Yes, that threaded end is 1.25 inches long. I'm glad to hear these are what should have came on the car. Its a numbers matching car but I do see that the front end was hit something in its past history and did crunch the frame front end on both side. Not bad, but the damage is there. Time will tell if the frame is out of wack. Of course I had no idea until after I bought the car and put it on my lift. Good times.
1.25 inch front sway bar... :) Thing is a beast, lol. But, stock leafs on back, with a crappy 7 1/4 rear...thats on the list as well. Does it ever end?


Then once the ride height is set, go for camber and caster.
The factory spec's assume high crowned roads. That's why the prefered settings were different from left to right.
IMO if you can get -1/2º camber, and 3/4 to 1.5º caster, that would be fine starting point for street tires.
Then for toe, factory spec is good. 1/8" in target, 3/32 to 5/32" in acceptable range. Toe out while driving the car will want to follow ruts in the road.
Click to expand...
 
Mattax said:
It's old. Also, its true that offset UCA bushings are not usually needed for correct alignment. They are needed when you need exceed the factory range.

"The 73 and up strut rods have a shorter flange to flange length and require a thicker two piece strut rod bushing with a sleeve . 72 and back are one piece usually but two piece are available without the sleeve.

An easy way to tell what rods you have is the 73 up have a coarse thread in the front the 72 and back are fine thread in the front."

View attachment 1715329798

View attachment 1715329799

This why its important to have the set with the correct inner diameter / sleeve and stack up lengths.
View attachment 1715329800
Click to expand...
Hi, my question is can you use a ‘73 and up strut rod in a ‘72 or older A body as long as you use the bushings with the sleeve? Thanks
 
71 swinger 225 said:
Hi, my question is can you use a ‘73 and up strut rod in a ‘72 or older A body as long as you use the bushings with the sleeve? Thanks
Click to expand...
pretty sure you want to use the bushings that go with the strut rods. so, 73' up rods, 73' up bushings. not surprised if i'm wrong :rolleyes:
 
That is my understanding. I only did the measurements on my '67.
@Oldmanmopar is who I quoted above, along with his photos.
@autoxcuda is who I quoted on my website.
Both can be relied on for speaking from their own knowledge, not repeating something they read on the 'net.
 
ChuckDock said:
I cant find the specific post from oldmanmopar, but I did find one he wrote and he said that off set uca bushings aren't needed for a correct alignment. After that I stopped reading his posts.
My 67 barracuda did have the 1 piece bushing. The strut ends have the course threads, but I have no clue now which way to install the washers.
Click to expand...
Your loss. If you need off set bushings for a factory alignment . You need more work then bushings. But you must know everything. You are probably still running that junk factory 67 idler arm also. Guys like you with your comments are a joke to the site. Troll on!
 
I did an alignment on my race car. All stock front end. Super stock springs in the back. Toe in 1/8 in. Camber ds-1/2. Ps-3/4. Caster ds 3 1/4. Ps 3 1/2. Kim
 
I really don’t understand the confusion between coarse and fine thread? It’s pretty obvious which is which. Also you can use either strut rod as long as you use the bushing designed for the strut rods you have.
 
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Anyone who is interested in the old original design,
I have a whole bunch of them N.O.S. U.S.A. made...

As per forum rules, P.M. me.... Yours, Craig....
 
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