Stock 360 Upgrades for Crusher Cuda?

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CrusherCuda

CrusherCuda

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I have looked around the forum trying to find a good recipe for my 360 and haven't found what I'm looking for. Not only am I new to Mopar's, but also new to 1/4 mile drag racing. So, I was hoping someone out there had already built what I want to do or someone has good suggestions for the the build.

I have a stock 2bbl 360 and 727 out of a 1972 Dodge Polara. At some point the heads were swapped for 051 reman heads. My rear axle is a 1969, 8 3/4, 3.91 ratio Sure Grip. This will be installed in a 1966 Barracuda with no interior and maybe a simple roll bar. Manual steering, manual disc brakes, no AC. I would like to go 14.00 to 12.90 in the quarter mile. I want to keep the bottom end, heads, pushrods, and rockers stock. I was told not to go over a .500 lift cam. I will be running headers. I will gasket match the ports and maybe open up the bowls on the 051 heads. I would like to drive it on the street, maybe do drag week, but more concerned with meeting my track time goals. I don't care about fuel economy. In the future I may upgrade the heads, rockers, and install a shift kit, but can't afford those things right now.

I need a good recommendation for a cam, lifters, valve springs, timing chain set. I feel like my power range should be around 6000 rpm at the top? Will a single plane Edelbrock Victor be ok, and will it clear the hood? I would like to run a Holley, but what size is appropriate? Do I need to upgrade my converter? What would be a good ignition, budget friendly, or will the stock distributor work? Anything I missed? Please set me straight FABO!

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Which do you want, 14 flat or 12.9 ?? For a 14 flat, pretty much a stock 360 that's "up to snuff" (meaning the heads are good and the rings are sealing) with a 4bbl and headers will run you around 14 flat with the 3.91's. For 12.9's, I would add a cam of size around .450-.474 lift, and 216-224 duration @ 050 and some work to the heads (bowl work, maybe cut .040 for a little added compression). In both cases I'd run a 750 DP.
 
I forgot, I was also thinking of installing a windage tray or baffle. I have heard that if I change the main cap bolts out for studs, that I would have to have the mains line bored. Any truth to that? I understand that a nut and stud can exert more force than a bolt, due to the the differences in running torque. But, with the proper torque spec, I wouldn't think changing hardware would distort the main caps. Any thoughts FABO?
 
CrusherCuda said:
I forgot, I was also thinking of installing a windage tray or baffle. I have heard that if I change the main cap bolts out for studs, that I would have to have the mains line bored. Any truth to that? I understand that a nut and stud can exert more force than a bolt, due to the the differences in running torque. But, with the proper torque spec, I wouldn't think changing hardware would distort the main caps. Any thoughts FABO?
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you just have to buy the main cap bolts that have the stud on top for the windage tray.
 
318willrun said:
Which do you want, 14 flat or 12.9 ?? For a 14 flat, pretty much a stock 360 that's "up to snuff" (meaning the heads are good and the rings are sealing) with a 4bbl and headers will run you around 14 flat with the 3.91's. For 12.9's, I would add a cam of size around .450-.474 lift, and 216-224 duration @ 050 and some work to the heads (bowl work, maybe cut .040 for a little added compression). In both cases I'd run a 750 DP.
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I would really like to run 12.90 in the quarter. Would I take .040 of the block or heads?
 
Yeah, getting it under 14.00 won't take anything exotic. If you're boring the block, choose your pistons to get your cr into the 9.5-10:1 range, like CF said.
For a cam, nothing exotic. Look at the specs for the old Purple Shaft 340 or street hemi grinds, that's all you'll really need, especially with 3.91 gears.
A 650-750 carb will be all you'd ever need with this combo.
 
If you have access to one of the old Mopar performance speed books they did a good job of spelling out what it took to get a certain et.
That being said KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) works for me.
Mopar (or the like) electronic ignition conversion kit is fine.
Cam: you will get a million suggestions.Just remember the cam needs to work with the compression/intake/heads/exhaust YOU have.Something in the high teens or low 220's @ .050
I would suggest a dual plane intake like a performer or performer rpm.Hood clearance you will have to check.
I think a well tuned 650 double pumper is plenty but many run a 750 vacuum secondary with no ill effects.
Don't go crazy with long duration cams,single plane intakes and such as that low stall torque converter won't play nice with them.
Build for torque IMO.
 
CrusherCuda said:
I would really like to run 12.90 in the quarter. Would I take .040 of the block or heads?
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heads, because that 360 is going to have dished pistons and the 360 is in need of any compression bump it can get. Many will tell you that you have to cut the intake as well, but I've not had to and I've done it more than once.
 
CrusherCuda said:
I would really like to run 12.90 in the quarter. Would I take .040 of the block or heads?
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for a couple of quick recipes:
  • I just ran 12.9's in the quarter with my 360. 3.23 open rear end, stock 904 and factory stock converter, .427 lift/204 duration on intake, 750 DP on 730 dollar speedmaster heads, headers. Cruises down the road at 60 mph relaxed, idles like a stock 318 2bbl.
  • It ran 13.9's with 2.45 gear, stock 360 heads and stock exhaust manifolds. All else the same.
 
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318willrun said:
heads, because that 360 is going to have dished pistons and the 360 is in need of any compression bump it can get. Many will tell you that you have to cut the intake as well, but I've not had to and I've done it more than once.
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If take .040 off the heads, and later replace pistons with flat tops, will the the valves still clear the heads with a .450 lift cam or would I be upgrading heads at the same time?
 
CrusherCuda said:
If take .040 off the heads, and later replace pistons with flat tops, will the the valves still clear the heads with a .450 lift cam or would I be upgrading heads at the same time?
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Shouldn't be a problem. As your motor sits in the picture you posted, what will make or break the performance of it will be how the rings seal, and how the valves are sealing, and I'll throw in valve guides being in good shape.
 
318willrun said:
for a couple of quick recipes:
  • I just ran 12.9's in the quarter with my 360. 3.23 open rear end, stock 904 and factory stock converter, .427 lift/204 duration on intake, 750 DP on 730 dollar speedmaster heads, headers. Cruises down the road at 60 mph relaxed, idles like a stock 318 2bbl.
  • It ran 13.9's with 2.45 gear, stock 360 heads and stock exhaust manifolds. All else the same.
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Sounds like I'm not asking for a miracle then. This makes me want to get this thing together. Once the cowl and roof are replaced, I will be hot to get this mill installed. Should be fun!
 
CrusherCuda said:
Sounds like I'm not asking for a miracle then. This makes me want to get this thing together. Once the cowl and roof are replaced, I will be hot to get this mill installed. Should be fun!
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You are correct. But, if you are doing it with lets say... less parts? Then you have to be willing to put the work into the tune.. and not just the engine, the car as well. That's the part I personally love. Most don't, they just throw more $$ at more parts.
 
318willrun said:
Shouldn't be a problem. As your motor sits in the picture you posted, what will make or break the performance of it will be how the rings seal, and how the valves are sealing, and I'll throw in valve guides being in good shape.
Click to expand...
Heads were replaced with remans shortly before the car was hit hard in the front. No damage to the crank pully. If the tapper isn't bad, then I may hone and re-ring it. I'm trying not to go down the rabbit hole of a complete rebuild right now, because in my history, that's where the project gets stalled. Just need a win with this project, and maybe it will push me to finish my Model A Hot Rod or make the Barracuda even better.
 
CrusherCuda said:
Heads were replaced with remans shortly before the car was hit hard in the front. No damage to the crank pully. If the tapper isn't bad, then I may hone and re-ring it. I'm trying not to go down the rabbit hole of a complete rebuild right now, because in my history, that's where the project gets stalled. Just need a win with this project, and maybe it will push me to finish my Model A Hot Rod or make the Barracuda even better.
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And I'll add, if it was a good running motor, you may not even need to pull a piston. I'd check the compression and if it's at least 135 psi per cyl or better, I'd run it. Good luck and keep us posted !
 
I don’t know what the 051 head is, but if it’s an open chamber the piston needs to come out of the deck. I’m not a fan of milling a bunch off the heads. It makes gasket sealing tough.

Also, 10:1 compression ratio is a good starting point. Don’t buy an off the shelf cam. Don’t buy an off the shelf computer. Buy a Holley clone that is a double pumper and learn to tune it. You have enough gear to run a Strip Dominator or an M1. Do it

Your biggest issue will be headers. There ain’t a header worth a single crap out there for that chassis. Not one. I haven’t seen an off the shelf header that wasn’t 40 HP or more off a decent header.

My last race car was a 64 Barracuda. I made 2 sets of headers for it, and paid a guy to make the last set. Of course, I had a lift off fiberglass front end and no inner fenders so I had some room.

If you have the option of using a 67-75 or 76 A body, I’d use it just so I could buy headers.

And I love the early A’s. They just don’t have any room.
 
Barring anything major with the shortblock, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how easily you'll get there. Those early 360s have slightly better pistons than the later ones. Cam and chain, manifold and carb of your choice. If you decide to upgrade your heads, save some money for Speedmaster's 40% off Black Friday sale.
 
OR "Blue Print " engines "408" and a warranty everyone knows racing isn't cheap neverless a Mopar!
 
yellow rose said:
I don’t know what the 051 head is, but if it’s an open chamber the piston needs to come out of the deck. I’m not a fan of milling a bunch off the heads. It makes gasket sealing tough.

Also, 10:1 compression ratio is a good starting point. Don’t buy an off the shelf cam. Don’t buy an off the shelf computer. Buy a Holley clone that is a double pumper and learn to tune it. You have enough gear to run a Strip Dominator or an M1. Do it

Your biggest issue will be headers. There ain’t a header worth a single crap out there for that chassis. Not one. I haven’t seen an off the shelf header that wasn’t 40 HP or more off a decent header.

My last race car was a 64 Barracuda. I made 2 sets of headers for it, and paid a guy to make the last set. Of course, I had a lift off fiberglass front end and no inner fenders so I had some room.

If you have the option of using a 67-75 or 76 A body, I’d use it just so I could buy headers.

And I love the early A’s. They just don’t have any room.
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My understanding is the 051 360 head is a later LA head. Nothing special when it comes to flow or compression. They can be made better, but they will never be great. The heads that should have been on the engine would have been a little better, but I forget the casting number. As far as headers, I could run a stock V8 273 manifold, but I was going to contact Laysons to get a set of their headers. I have heard many bad things about TTI not fitting right and people beating them to fit. And Doug's is a bit expensive for my build. I really don't want to cut up the inner fenders. Just want to save an old wore out Mopar and have some weekend fun with it. I don't even need to win a race. I just want to finally have a V8 60's Mopar that makes me smile when I get in the gas. And maybe run 12.90 in the quarter.
 
CrusherCuda said:
My understanding is the 051 360 head is a later LA head. Nothing special when it comes to flow or compression. They can be made better, but they will never be great. The heads that should have been on the engine would have been a little better, but I forget the casting number. As far as headers, I could run a stock V8 273 manifold, but I was going to contact Laysons to get a set of their headers. I have heard many bad things about TTI not fitting right and people beating them to fit. And Doug's is a bit expensive for my build. I really don't want to cut up the inner fenders. Just want to save an old wore out Mopar and have some weekend fun with it. I don't even need to win a race. I just want to finally have a V8 60's Mopar that makes me smile when I get in the gas. And maybe run 12.90 in the quarter.
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Well, you'll never get into the 12s with the stock 273 manifold. Maybe with some Magnum or 340 manifolds if you can get them snuck into the early A. Layson's (Spitfire) headers are fenderwell, and I thought that you didn't want to cut your inner fenders. There's a thread on here somewhere about modifying the #1 tube on Hedman's shorty headers for later As so they fit an early A- I'll see if I can dig it up.
Edit: Spitfires aren't fenderwell, I was thinking of the Hookers. Sorry.
 
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Professor Fate said:
Well, you'll never get into the 12s with the stock 273 manifold. Maybe with some Magnum or 340 manifolds if you can get them snuck into the early A. Layson's (Spitfire) headers are fenderwell, and I thought that you didn't want to cut your inner fenders. There's a thread on here somewhere about modifying the #1 tube on Hedman's shorty headers for later As so they fit an early A- I'll see if I can dig it up.
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Didn't find it, but here's another thread that refers to it and has pics.
Removing stock exhaust manifolds | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum
 
Professor Fate said:
Well, you'll never get into the 12s with the stock 273 manifold. Maybe with some Magnum or 340 manifolds if you can get them snuck into the early A. Layson's (Spitfire) headers are fenderwell, and I thought that you didn't want to cut your inner fenders. There's a thread on here somewhere about modifying the #1 tube on Hedman's shorty headers for later As so they fit an early A- I'll see if I can dig it up.
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I was under the impression that the "Spitfire" headers were just a different layout without collector and that they dump over the torsion bars. It appeared that it took some tinkering, but once you were past the torsion bars, it was all clear. And they worked with the aftermarket 340/360 engine mounts and manual steering.
 
yellow rose said:
I don’t know what the 051 head is, but if it’s an open chamber the piston needs to come out of the deck.
Don’t buy an off the shelf cam.

Your biggest issue will be headers. There ain’t a header worth a single crap out there for that chassis. Not one. I haven’t seen an off the shelf header that wasn’t 40 HP or more off a decent header.
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whoa whoa WHOA on the first part I quoted!!!!. LOL :D Pistons do not NEED to come out of the deck nor does one need 10 to 1 compression to run 12.9's in a A-body with a 360. And, a cheapo off the shelf cam will get him his goal also. Your way would optimize the build and isn't wrong, just not necessary to reach his goal.

You are correct on the 2nd part I quoted about the headers. Although, even a bad header will be enough to meet his goals.
 
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