base coat clear coat wet sand, and now what?

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royslead

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I know the normal answer her is "cut and buff." I have a bit of a dilemma - I am not certain I put enough clear on, to make it through the cut and buff process. I know this is the case at least in one spot, because I sanded through it. It is tiny, very low on the car, and I can fix (read "hide") it. I had a huge amount of orange peel. I understand some to be normal, this is like that, to the tenth power. If you have not guessed already, I am not a painter. The last car I painted was 25 years ago, single stage. My build / finish is on a tight budget, I wanted to do as much / all the work on the car myself, and if the paint job didn't turn out, at least I didn't pay a lot for the results (my budget would have only allowed for a paint job by a place like Maaco, and although they can paint, at my price point, there are not too many choices; and I wanted a sort of custom job. I know...cake and eat it, too). So, the paint came from TCP Global - Urethane metallic basecoat / clear coat. I got lucky spraying the base - no runs, laid flat, not blotchy, and looks pretty even in the sun - the best I could hope for. Clear coat data sheet called for a 1.2 tip. My gun was a 1.4. I am guessing that means its a larger orifice for more / thicker paint. I sprayed what I thought was 4 coats, allowing proper flash between them. I think I was too far away from the surface, no runs, but not very glossy and a runner up in the "most like an orange" contest. I have wet sanded it pretty flat, starting with 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit. Do I now respray clear on it, in hopes of laying it flat, and most importantly, that it will adhere? Should I; or do I just try to buff or polish what I have lightly and call it good? This is a driver class vehicle, that I would like to show from time to time (for the fun of it, I am not a trophy hound). The picture shows the car, wet after washing, after last sanding.
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subscribed....paint is fascinating to me...to sand a new paint job and then polish it seems so destructive. Im about to roll a coat of cheap thinned hot rod black onto a sanded clear coat cancer car and if i can wet sand down the orange peal, im game!
 
pishta said:
subscribed....paint is fascinating to me...to sand a new paint job and then polish it seems so destructive.
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I'm with you there, my wife too - she can't understand why I did all this work, and then ruined it with the sandpaper. Lol.
 
Mine was 4 coats of base, a Klear coat that was then fully "infused" (sanded out) and then 2 more full coats of clear. We left it a year and then I let the pros that painted it do the cut and buff.


 
You should have asked the question before sanding it down, 2000 grit is too fine for adhesion for another coat of clear.
Might as well just buff it.
Do you have a quality DA buffer, it makes all the difference, and use foam waffle pads, they are more forgiving.
I like the chemical guys buffing pads.
 
This all depends on what you want the car to be. Any spots you cut through will need more base applied and a blend will be needed. If you plan on clearing the car again you really will only need to sand with 600-800 grit. You can apply base over both of those and still have adhesion. Remember those are orbital scratches not straight scratches. If you plan on applying the base you might want to step it to 1000 grit depending on how much metallic you have in the color if you are hand sanding straight scratches.

Gun tip size can make a difference for sure. I spray daily with a Sata 1.3 RP for clear. You should get an old fender or panel and prep it for clear and set your gun up before spraying the car.

What gun are you using? What pressure? Full trigger? How wide is your pattern set?

Do you know what a pattern overlap is? Most basic painters use about a 50 percent overlap. This is the pattern in which you spray. One coat left to right, then move up 50 percent and overlap the fist coat and keep going. I spray at probably a 75 percent overlap but I move my gun close to the panel and move extremely fast. This is because I use a production clear and it has different spray techniques needed.

Remember the flatter the substrate the flatter your paint film will be.

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If you are thinking of recoating it with more clear dont go any finer than 800 grit. If your going to wet sand & buff i would start with 1500 grit then 2000. If there is 4 coats of clear you will be fine. My normal is 3 coats of DA sand it with 1500 then buff it.
 
67Dart440GT said:
This all depends on what you want the car to be. Any spots you cut through will need more base applied and a blend will be needed. If you plan on clearing the car again you really will only need to sand with 600-800 grit. You can apply base over both of those and still have adhesion. Remember those are orbital scratches not straight scratches. If you plan on applying the base you might want to step it to 1000 grit depending on how much metallic you have in the color if you are hand sanding straight scratches.

Gun tip size can make a difference for sure. I spray daily with a Sata 1.3 RP for clear. You should get an old fender or panel and prep it for clear and set your gun up before spraying the car.

What gun are you using? What pressure? Full trigger? How wide is your pattern set?

Do you know what a pattern overlap is? Most basic painters use about a 50 percent overlap. This is the pattern in which you spray. One coat left to right, then move up 50 percent and overlap the fist coat and keep going. I spray at probably a 75 percent overlap but I move my gun close to the panel and move extremely fast. This is because I use a production clear and it has different spray techniques needed.

Remember the flatter the substrate the flatter your paint film will be.
Click to expand...

My guns are those cheap, ATD three pack HVLP deals. I think the three tip sizes were 1.8, 1.4, 1.0
I had approx 30 PSI at the gun, on an analog, dial type inline regulator, on the output side of an inline water trap. Used at full trigger, pattern was not quite full width, but about 12" high at about a foot away. Spraying on cardboard, it appeared to be consistent with what I saw on videos. I sprayed trying to keep a 50% overlap, but I worked from the top down, and left to right. Two things I know - I probably was not completely consistent in my distance from the panels, and I probably moved too quickly. It looked to me, like maybe it was spraying too dry, but my inexperience let me continue. I have read and heard a few different things regarding clearing at this point. Some say the same as above, the finish is now too smooth. Some say, like you (if I understood you right), the clear can still be applied. So, do I need to re-sand at 600 (I am currently at 2000)? Maybe I should just try polishing it. To be honest, if I can get enough of a shine out of it like I had, when it was wet, I would probably be ok with that. I would love a show car finish, but to be honest with myself - I just don't have the proper tools, skills, or money in the budget for that.
I have an air powered DA, but I don't think I would want to use it for buffing / polishing. I have an older, electric polisher - it looks like similar to a grinder, but much larger, and much slower. I have access to some decent pads. I also have some Meguire's compound and swirl mark remover. It may not be top notch like the 3M stuff, but I have used it before.
 
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royslead said:
My guns are those cheap, ATD three pack HVLP deals. I think the three tip sizes were 1.8, 1.4, 1.0
I had approx 30 PSI at the gun, on an analog, dial type inline regulator, on the output side of an inline water trap. Used at full trigger, pattern was not quite full width, but about 12" high at about a foot away. Spraying on cardboard, it appeared to be consistent with what I saw on videos. I sprayed trying to keep a 50% overlap, but I worked from the top down, and left to right. Two things I know - I probably was not completely consistent in my distance from the panels, and I probably moved too quickly. It looked to me, like maybe it was spraying too dry, but my inexperience let me continue. I have read and heard a few different things regarding clearing at this point. Some say the same as above, the finish is now too smooth. Some say, like you (if I understood you right), the clear can still be applied. So, do I need to re-sand at 600 (I am currently at 2000)? Maybe I should just try polishing it. To be honest, if I can get enough of a shine out of it like I had, when it was wet, I would probably be ok with that. I would love a show car finish, but to be honest with myself - I just don't have the proper tools, skills, or money in the budget for that.
I have an air powered DA, but I don't think I would want to use it for buffing / polishing. I have an older, electric polisher - it looks like similar to a grinder, but much larger, and much slower. I have access to some decent pads. I also have some Meguire's compound and swirl mark remover. It may not be top notch like the 3M stuff, but I have used it before.
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2k is too fine to hold any material. If you are going to clear it again go with 6 to 800. Da's are not for buffing... they are for polishing. A buffer like you mentioned is what you need to buff the clear. You can go finer with 3k soft pad on a da and up to 5k soft pad. This makes buffing go much faster.
 
royslead said:
I know the normal answer her is "cut and buff." I have a bit of a dilemma - I am not certain I put enough clear on, to make it through the cut and buff process. I know this is the case at least in one spot, because I sanded through it. It is tiny, very low on the car, and I can fix (read "hide") it. I had a huge amount of orange peel. I understand some to be normal, this is like that, to the tenth power. If you have not guessed already, I am not a painter. The last car I painted was 25 years ago, single stage. My build / finish is on a tight budget, I wanted to do as much / all the work on the car myself, and if the paint job didn't turn out, at least I didn't pay a lot for the results (my budget would have only allowed for a paint job by a place like Maaco, and although they can paint, at my price point, there are not too many choices; and I wanted a sort of custom job. I know...cake and eat it, too). So, the paint came from TCP Global - Urethane metallic basecoat / clear coat. I got lucky spraying the base - no runs, laid flat, not blotchy, and looks pretty even in the sun - the best I could hope for. Clear coat data sheet called for a 1.2 tip. My gun was a 1.4. I am guessing that means its a larger orifice for more / thicker paint. I sprayed what I thought was 4 coats, allowing proper flash between them. I think I was too far away from the surface, no runs, but not very glossy and a runner up in the "most like an orange" contest. I have wet sanded it pretty flat, starting with 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit. Do I now respray clear on it, in hopes of laying it flat, and most importantly, that it will adhere? Should I; or do I just try to buff or polish what I have lightly and call it good? This is a driver class vehicle, that I would like to show from time to time (for the fun of it, I am not a trophy hound). The picture shows the car, wet after washing, after last sanding.
View attachment 1715801574
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Hey Bro, that looks killer! Awesome job, and way better than most could do! Unfortunately, my knowledge of spray tips, orifices, and spray patterns, for different materials, ect, is limited to residential and commercial airless paint sprayers. Great Job!
 
I see no reason at all why you could not lightly sand with 600 and respray clear. You just need to sand enough to leave 600 grit sanding scratches for mechanical adhesion. Don't sand enough to go through the clear. light sanding with 600 should not take off too much material. Should be no problem. Using a 1.4 tip will be no problem. I have successfully sprayed clear with a 1.5 tip.
 
when you say hit it with 600 does that just mean rough it with a few light passes it or sand it firmly? im no painter and dont know how strong these paints are under a sand paper.
 
pishta said:
when you say hit it with 600 does that just mean rough it with a few light passes it or sand it firmly? im no painter and dont know how strong these paints are under a sand paper.
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You need a 600-800 grit scratch every where to gain mechanical adhesion. You can orbital sand or block/hand sand. For all of the edges and such I would follow with a Grey scuff pad. This ensures your product will stick. MOST paints have at least a 24 hour recoat window that you do not need mechanical scratches and can apply new material directly over the fresh paint and will gain chemical adhesion. Remember after the first coat of product everything sticks to the previous coat chemically.
 
You already have it sanded to 2000 grit, buff it.
 
sireland67 said:
You already have it sanded to 2000 grit, buff it.
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I cannot completely disagree with your idea. However, my first thought is that since @royslead indicated he was not sure of how much clear he had, it might be safer to lightly sand with 600 or maybe even better with 800 (since it will remove less material) and then spray on some more clear. Plus, he said he already sanded through the clear in one spot that was low and would not be very noticeable. My fear is that no matter how careful he was, he could burn through the thin clear. Then he would definitely have a problem. @67Dart440GT suggested a grey scuff pad (equal to about 600 grit) around the edges after the sanding. Not a bad idea at all. I would definitely use a soft sanding block and wet sand with 800 and then spray more clear. I feel that this would be the safest.
 
Ironracer said:
Hey Bro, that looks killer! Awesome job, and way better than most could do! Unfortunately, my knowledge of spray tips, orifices, and spray patterns, for different materials, ect, is limited to residential and commercial airless paint sprayers. Great Job!
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i think it looks good too. There are two kinds of paint jobs, show car and driver, a show car paint job will become driver when you start driving it regularly.
 
royslead said:
I know the normal answer her is "cut and buff." I have a bit of a dilemma - I am not certain I put enough clear on, to make it through the cut and buff process. I know this is the case at least in one spot, because I sanded through it. It is tiny, very low on the car, and I can fix (read "hide") it. I had a huge amount of orange peel. I understand some to be normal, this is like that, to the tenth power. If you have not guessed already, I am not a painter. The last car I painted was 25 years ago, single stage. My build / finish is on a tight budget, I wanted to do as much / all the work on the car myself, and if the paint job didn't turn out, at least I didn't pay a lot for the results (my budget would have only allowed for a paint job by a place like Maaco, and although they can paint, at my price point, there are not too many choices; and I wanted a sort of custom job. I know...cake and eat it, too). So, the paint came from TCP Global - Urethane metallic basecoat / clear coat. I got lucky spraying the base - no runs, laid flat, not blotchy, and looks pretty even in the sun - the best I could hope for. Clear coat data sheet called for a 1.2 tip. My gun was a 1.4. I am guessing that means its a larger orifice for more / thicker paint. I sprayed what I thought was 4 coats, allowing proper flash between them. I think I was too far away from the surface, no runs, but not very glossy and a runner up in the "most like an orange" contest. I have wet sanded it pretty flat, starting with 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit. Do I now respray clear on it, in hopes of laying it flat, and most importantly, that it will adhere? Should I; or do I just try to buff or polish what I have lightly and call it good? This is a driver class vehicle, that I would like to show from time to time (for the fun of it, I am not a trophy hound). The picture shows the car, wet after washing, after last sanding.
View attachment 1715801574
Click to expand...
If you didn't feel comfortable with the amount of clear I myself would scuff it & shoot another 3 coats
 
royslead said:
I'm with you there, my wife too - she can't understand why I did all this work, and then ruined it with the sandpaper. Lol.
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When you get it flat & polished than she'll change her mind lol
 
I decided to just go ahead and try some light cutting and polishing. You can definitely see areas that should have been sanded flatter ; but I am happy I did not remove enough clear to burn into the paint. In fact, I do have some decent reflection. Could it be better? Oh yeah; but I figured I would at least try it, and repaint later, if I need to. I have a question about the clear that is still orange peeled - if and when I add additional coats, will those areas just "fill-in" with paint, and adhere ok? Or, is there more I need to do, besides sand down to 600 grit? I probably will re-coat after a while, but for now, I think it will suffice.
 
royslead said:
I decided to just go ahead and try some light cutting and polishing. You can definitely see areas that should have been sanded flatter ; but I am happy I did not remove enough clear to burn into the paint. In fact, I do have some decent reflection. Could it be better? Oh yeah; but I figured I would at least try it, and repaint later, if I need to. I have a question about the clear that is still orange peeled - if and when I add additional coats, will those areas just "fill-in" with paint, and adhere ok? Or, is there more I need to do, besides sand down to 600 grit? I probably will re-coat after a while, but for now, I think it will suffice.
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Yeah I think you're fine, if you're happy that is all that matters. When you're ready to add more clear yeah flatten it out with 600-800, I even go over it all with grey 3m pad lightly that will get into the orange peel & help adhesion. Oh & by the way from what I see it looks great
 
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