1964 Valiant
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Scody21
Just send it
Start here. If you just put a new one in it will fry also. Use the search bar of the website, tons of info on this topic.
Bad Day...Smoked something....2nd verse
Bad Day...Smoked something....2nd verse
Nice car. If you are looking for parts you need to started a parts wanted thread in the proper Mopar For Sale Ads forum.
You probably need a ammeter but the car is also probably overcharging. There's a good chance that shiny paint on the firewall is preventing the voltage regulator from getting a good ground. That can cause your issues.
What @toolmanmike wrote is right on the money.
You can thow darts and hope its just the ammeter, although many times an ammeter problem is not the ammeter at all.
The question is what wiring fried and why.
Although you may know this, many people don't.
The ammeter shows current flow in and out of the battery. The scale goes from 40 amps discharging to 40 amps charging.
Do you recall what the ammeter was indicating at various times during those four hours of operation?
That along with the specific locations of damage will be good clues as to what went wrong.
1964Val
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1964Val
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Thanks. That is helpful to know
1964Val
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1964Val
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Thanks. I’m having the car completely Rewired and have pulled together new harnesses for engine, under dash, rear. Just in case…starter relay, voltage reg, and ballast. Lastly, a new alternator, which I feel may have been the cause (though perhaps result of something else)…I know nothing about wiring…the ground screw was apparently over tightened
1964Val
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Note rectifier broken
Looks like a lot of heat around the output terminal and the heat sink for the positive rectifier is out of place, but no heat damage there.
That's a rebuilt isolated field alternator. Your car started life with a grounded field alternator. The photo in post shows a voltage regulator for a grounded field alternator.
That's a rebuilt isolated field alternator. Your car started life with a grounded field alternator. The photo in post shows a voltage regulator for a grounded field alternator.
Not sure what you are refering to. I can't think of any 'ground screws' however there are a number screws that help with grounding.
So I'm willing to help, but if you're fine with trusting some one to rewire and not really interested in learning more, that's fine too. I'll leave it to you to ask questions, or not.
1964Val
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1964Val
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I appreciate the insight, as I know little to nothing about some of these issues. Regarding the alternator and regulator, Should I be looking for a grounded field regulator or switch out the voltage regulator to isolated (to match a new alternator)? The new wiring harnesses are OEM type from M&H. I’ve been told that I will likely need a new ammeter, but that seems to be a “good luck” find in the short term. The current ammeter is pegged in the middle, but I recall it flickering slightly before I smelled burned wire. I caught a pic of the back of the ammeter as best I could, with some of the damage evident,
I personally like the simplicity of staying with the grounded field regulator.
Its a simpler system and I feel its easier to troubleshoot.
If you ever need a replacement you can just look up the regulator for a '64.
Finally if you can't find a grounded field alternator, its relatively easy to convert an isolated field alternator by grounding one brush.
Example of one way to do that in post #3 Identifying Chrysler Alternators (1960-1976)
That will be for a grounded field alternator. PS. Save the oriignal harness for parts and reference in years to come.
Middle position correct. That indicates the battery is neither charging nor discharging.
This is from a '75 Operator's manual, but I suspect a '64 is almost exactly the same
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We're not seeing the ammeter in those photos.
The ammeter is further over toward the passenger side.
Red wire connects to the battery. Black wire to the main splice and the alternator.
(photo from this ad [SOLD] - 1964 Barracuda Valiant Gauge Cluster Ignition with key)
If you didn't see the ammeter peg or nearly peg in either direction, its possible that it was not damaged. The scale on the ammeter is 40 amps discharge to 40 amps charging. Different year ammeters were constructed differently so some are more tolerant of excessive current conditions than others.
Key checks will be
* for no damage to the insulation, including any fiber washers.
* The studs are firmly mounted in the metal plate that carries current.
* no damage to the needle mounting.
The goal is perfect connection between the two studs, and perfect isolation from any ground. Using an ohmeter there should be zero resistance between the studs. Ohmeters are not sensitive enough to pickup all poor connections but will let you catch the worst cases. The gage must be completely insulated from the instrument panel when installed. That can be checked visually and with an ohmeter.
We certainly see damage to wires and to the alternator.
If you did not see high charging for long period of time on the ammeter, then I'm leaning toward a short to ground in the main circuits. It is certainly possible the short was in the alternator itself.
In 1965 Chrysler added a fusible link to the battery wire to help protect the rest of the main circuit from this type of short.
Here's how a fusible link works, and how it can help when any wire connected to the battery, including the alternator output wire, gets grounded.
Voltage is excited electrons, or potential energy.
Current is electrons moving.
Current flow with engine running and the battery recharged would look like this.
If we measured it, the system is roughly at 14 volts when the alternator is working properly.
Lets say the headlight wire insulation got damaged and the car hit a bump such the bare wire touched the metal dash.
That easy path to ground kills the ignition and field.
However as voltage drops below 13 Volts, the path is clear for the battery to take the same opportunity.
If there is a fusible link, that should stop the current flow before too much damage.
I don't know that the problem was a short to ground in your car, but its a possibility.
If the short was after the fusebox, or after a circuit breaker (headlight and heater fan switches have CBs in them) I dont think we would see that damage on the alternator.
The ammeter is further over toward the passenger side.
Red wire connects to the battery. Black wire to the main splice and the alternator.
(photo from this ad [SOLD] - 1964 Barracuda Valiant Gauge Cluster Ignition with key)
If you didn't see the ammeter peg or nearly peg in either direction, its possible that it was not damaged. The scale on the ammeter is 40 amps discharge to 40 amps charging. Different year ammeters were constructed differently so some are more tolerant of excessive current conditions than others.
Key checks will be
* for no damage to the insulation, including any fiber washers.
* The studs are firmly mounted in the metal plate that carries current.
* no damage to the needle mounting.
The goal is perfect connection between the two studs, and perfect isolation from any ground. Using an ohmeter there should be zero resistance between the studs. Ohmeters are not sensitive enough to pickup all poor connections but will let you catch the worst cases. The gage must be completely insulated from the instrument panel when installed. That can be checked visually and with an ohmeter.
We certainly see damage to wires and to the alternator.
If you did not see high charging for long period of time on the ammeter, then I'm leaning toward a short to ground in the main circuits. It is certainly possible the short was in the alternator itself.
In 1965 Chrysler added a fusible link to the battery wire to help protect the rest of the main circuit from this type of short.
Here's how a fusible link works, and how it can help when any wire connected to the battery, including the alternator output wire, gets grounded.
Voltage is excited electrons, or potential energy.
Current is electrons moving.
Current flow with engine running and the battery recharged would look like this.
If we measured it, the system is roughly at 14 volts when the alternator is working properly.
Lets say the headlight wire insulation got damaged and the car hit a bump such the bare wire touched the metal dash.
That easy path to ground kills the ignition and field.
However as voltage drops below 13 Volts, the path is clear for the battery to take the same opportunity.
If there is a fusible link, that should stop the current flow before too much damage.
I don't know that the problem was a short to ground in your car, but its a possibility.
If the short was after the fusebox, or after a circuit breaker (headlight and heater fan switches have CBs in them) I dont think we would see that damage on the alternator.
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1964Val
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1964Val
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Appreciate your time, detail and thoughts. I’ll investigate further.
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