1965 dart gt spring question

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Update: I know it's been a while, but progress on the car was halted for a while, had alot going on that needed my attention. I measured the springs and the front segment is 20 inches measured to the center of the spring and the back segment measures 35 inches to the center. I did attempt to flip the shackle but no dice, it would swing down a bit but would not flip all the way over. Anyone know what kind of springs these would be?
 
Wreck0nin said:
Update: I know it's been a while, but progress on the car was halted for a while, had alot going on that needed my attention. I measured the springs and the front segment is 20 inches measured to the center of the spring and the back segment measures 35 inches to the center. I did attempt to flip the shackle but no dice, it would swing down a bit but would not flip all the way over. Anyone know what kind of springs these would be?
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Good to hear from you. You will need a longer bar for more leverage. Those springs look quite old. They very well could be the originals. Those shackles need to be inverted/corrected first and foremost. Jack the car up and support it with stands on the front spring hanger area. Be careful when prying. You need to get the eight off the car and leat the rear end hang down. Take it to a shop that has a frame contact hoist.
 
Wreck0nin said:
Update: I know it's been a while, but progress on the car was halted for a while, had alot going on that needed my attention. I measured the springs and the front segment is 20 inches measured to the center of the spring and the back segment measures 35 inches to the center. I did attempt to flip the shackle but no dice, it would swing down a bit but would not flip all the way over. Anyone know what kind of springs these would be?
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20/35 for OAL 55 is stock A-body

it's possible that they've been arched or were a ++ on arch height when made and whoever installed them put the wrong shackles on that are too short and that's why it's swung up like that. maybe.

either way you need to correct the shackle angle before you do anything else.

they're under pressure, and jammed up so they're not just going to come gently. get the weight off and a beefy pry bar should yield results.
 
Progress report: I was able to get the car off the ground and the shackle flipped back down, but even with the axle jacked all the way up I couldn't even get the shackle back to the 90 degree position. I have a feeling I need the extended spring mounts, but I can't figure out which ones I need. Anyone how has ss springs happen to have the part number for the extended front mounts?
 
where is the shackle sitting now? it may not sit at a true 90... pic would help.

you shouldn't need extended mounts, those springs are the correct length for the car. so something else is amiss.

what length are the current shackles? and whats the front mount look like? again, pics help here.
 
So that's where it sits completely unsprung. When I jack the rear end up and flatten the spring out completely I can get it to almost 90 degrees but not quite 90, the bottom of the shackle is angled forward. Should I make a spacer for the shackle mount? All I would need is maybe 3/4 of an inch or so.

20240212_192555.jpg


20240212_192534.jpg
 
This is a very common problem with the newer super stock springs I’m finding. I cured it by accident, but I did figure it out.

When I first installed the set I bought from Summit in 2022 it was on my ‘74 swinger with a 7 1/4. It would flip the passenger side shackle any time I would lift the rear end to do work.

Then I installed the MP 3/4 offset spring kit when I installed my 8 3/4. No change, same issue.

When I swapped that same 8 3/4 into my ‘65 Dart, I used the Dr Diff 1/2 offset kit, and used his spring hanger reinforcement plates. Problem solved, I no longer have the issue with the shackle flipping.

The Dr Diff kit has two locations for the leaf spring bolt, it allows you to select stock ride height or ~1-1.5” lower. I chose the lowered position. I believe this coupled with the reinforcement plates(effectively a small spacer) is what cured the issue.
 
I was thinking about making a spacer for the rear mount to push the top of the shackles over the eye of the spring, that seems to be the safest bet without messing up anything else.
 
Wreck0nin said:
I was thinking about making a spacer for the rear mount to push the top of the shackles over the eye of the spring, that seems to be the safest bet without messing up anything else.
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If you add it in front of the hanger, it will reinforce that area, like they did with the Hemi Darts.
 
I am talking about a spacer between the rear shackle mount and the frame, is that what you mean?
 
Wreck0nin said:
I am talking about a spacer between the rear shackle mount and the frame, is that what you mean?
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I understand what you are saying, I am recommending to put your spacer between the frame and the rear hanger instead.

It has the benefit of reinforcing that area, like Mopar did to the super stock cars. I call that a twofer.
 
interesting. maybe part of the problem is stemming for the front hangers being incorrect? i only have 67+ sitting here to compare against, and all i can say is that they don't look like that.

but given the direction you're wanting to take, i'd go with midnight swinger's rec and either get new front hangers or space out the front, rather than the shackle.
 
I'm glad I bought the correct springs for my 66. No issues.
 
My only concern with spacing the front spring mount is pushing the axle back the inch that I need to get everything in line, maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't that mean I'd have to lengthen the driveshaft and brake lines to match that extra inch?
 
Wreck0nin said:
My only concern with spacing the front spring mount is pushing the axle back the inch that I need to get everything in line, maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't that mean I'd have to lengthen the driveshaft and brake lines to match that extra inch?
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An inch is too far. Like you said, brake lines and driveshaft. The OP should get the right springs instead of jacking around trying to band aid the ones he has. Ridiculous.
 
I am the original poster, and the reason I haven't just replaced the springs in question is I like how the car handles and sits, and I don't want to throw another 600+ dollars at something that only needs 15 bucks worth of aluminum to fix
 
Wreck0nin said:
I am the original poster, and the reason I haven't just replaced the springs in question is I like how the car handles and sits, and I don't want to throw another 600+ dollars at something that only needs 15 bucks worth of aluminum to fix
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Fix it once and fix it right.
 
Espo stock springs. They are even 5 leaf and not the factory 6 leaf. Nice ride and look.

2.20.22c.jpg
 
Wreck0nin said:
My only concern with spacing the front spring mount is pushing the axle back the inch that I need to get everything in line, maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't that mean I'd have to lengthen the driveshaft and brake lines to match that extra inch?
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If you need a full inch, yes. You might start with 1/2” just to see what it gets you, but I understand where you are coming from.
 
I might be able to get away with 3/4 of an inch, but if I take the spacer up to an inch have that much more room for precise adjustments to the shackles without running out of room. That and I don't want to string it all together just to find I needed more. I did do some measurements and based on the angle of the shackle now I would need just about 3/4 to an inch to put the spring eye in line with the shackle mount.
 
i'm gonna circle back to: you have stock springs, or at least the length points to that, so to my thinking there must be an issue with the mounting hardware. or you measured incorrectly.

i'd measure and verify the shackles are correct, the front hangers are correct and that the bushings aren't totally wasted before trying to space something out or replace anything.
 
The shackles measure 4 inches long, the bushings in the shackles are shot for sure, but even with the suspension completely compressed I still could not get it to at least a 90 degree angle. As far as the measurements go ss springs had the same measurements as stock with more arch which would explain the shortcoming.
 
i've stated my thoughts on the matter, so i'll leave it at that. if you're going to add a spacer, add it at the front at least.
 
Wreck0nin said:
So that's where it sits completely unsprung. When I jack the rear end up and flatten the spring out completely I can get it to almost 90 degrees but not quite 90, the bottom of the shackle is angled forward. Should I make a spacer for the shackle mount? All I would need is maybe 3/4 of an inch or so.

View attachment 1716206343
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It looks to me like somebody has "fixed" that bracket. It appears to have an extra plate welded to the bottom and is the bracket itself welded to the mount area?
 
kesteb said:
It looks to me like somebody has "fixed" that bracket. It appears to have an extra plate welded to the bottom and is the bracket itself welded to the mount area?
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this brings up a very important point. what if somebody "fixed" the shackle mount at some point and it's no longer in the stock position. this could account for the problems OP is having...
 
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