1972 Dodge Dart Swinger Stance

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plumkrazee70 said:
I mean in height? Are the XHD 6 leafs also?
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XHD's are 6 leaf springs, the standard OE springs were 5 leaf and ~85 lb/in, the XHD's are 6 leaf and ~110 lb/in. I would suspect that the XHD's are fairly similar in height and spring rate to the ESPO 6 leaf springs, but of course being a different manufacturer there are no doubt some differences.

krazykuda said:
I would just put some super stock rear leaf springs on it...
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And give it a harsh ride, uneven ride height in the back, and worse handling in the process. SS springs are great for hooking up drag racing launches, but for anything else they're not the best choice.
 
72bluNblu said:
XHD's are 6 leaf springs, the standard OE springs were 5 leaf and ~85 lb/in, the XHD's are 6 leaf and ~110 lb/in. I would suspect that the XHD's are fairly similar in height and spring rate to the ESPO 6 leaf springs, but of course being a different manufacturer there are no doubt some differences.

Great. Just wanted to confirm that I am probably going with 6 leaf stock height as I am keeping the 14's on for now so I don't want the 4x4 look.
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72bluNblu said:
XHD's are 6 leaf springs, the standard OE springs were 5 leaf and ~85 lb/in, the XHD's are 6 leaf and ~110 lb/in. I would suspect that the XHD's are fairly similar in height and spring rate to the ESPO 6 leaf springs, but of course being a different manufacturer there are no doubt some differences.



And give it a harsh ride, uneven ride height in the back, and worse handling in the process. SS springs are great for hooking up drag racing launches, but for anything else they're not the best choice.
Click to expand...
Ah I don't want to have a harsh ride but need to stiffen up the steering she's like a boat ill look into the XHD's thanks for the input
 
plumkrazee70 said:
Great. Just wanted to confirm that I am probably going with 6 leaf stock height as I am keeping the 14's on for now so I don't want the 4x4 look.
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The XHD's will probably add some ride height. The springs that are on your car currently have no doubt sagged, and if they're 5 leaf springs they'll have sagged more than 6 leaf springs would have. So, brand new springs will add to the ride height although some of that will go away as the springs settle in. The 6 leaf springs shouldn't give you a 4x4 ride height with the stock height, but they'll almost certainly add height compared to what you have now.

PawnCenter72 said:
Ah I don't want to have a harsh ride but need to stiffen up the steering she's like a boat ill look into the XHD's thanks for the input
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The wheel rate balance on these cars is pretty far off from the factory. The torsion bars in the front were vastly undersprung, while the springs in the back weren't too far off, especially the XHD's. Going to larger torsion bars in the front will dramatically improve the barge like handling of a stock car, even if the leafs are left alone. Add XHD's and the handling will improve even more. As for the steering, if you have the stock power steering you can modify the steering pump pressure to reduce the amount of "boost" the power steering gives. Mopar action did an article on it for the Saginaw pumps, although you can do it for the federal pumps as well. Still adding spacers but the procedure for the install is different.

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf

If you need to rebuild the front end add Moog 7103 offset UCA bushings, they will allow you do dial in more caster, which also reduces the boat like steering boost feeling. Alignment should be for radial tires too, not using the factory specs.
 
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72bluNblu said:
And give it a harsh ride, uneven ride height in the back, and worse handling in the process. SS springs are great for hooking up drag racing launches, but for anything else they're not the best choice.
Click to expand...

They are not as bad as you make them out to be...

I've been using SS on my DD for decades with no problems...
 
72bluNblu said:
The XHD's will probably add some ride height. The springs that are on your car currently have no doubt sagged, and if they're 5 leaf springs they'll have sagged more than 6 leaf springs would have. So, brand new springs will add to the ride height although some of that will go away as the springs settle in. The 6 leaf springs shouldn't give you a 4x4 ride height with the stock height, but they'll almost certainly add height compared to what you have now.



The wheel rate balance on these cars is pretty car off from the factory. The torsion bars in the front were vastly undersprung, while the springs in the back weren't too far off, especially the XHD's. Going to larger torsion bars in the front will dramatically improve the barge like handling of a stock car, even if the leafs are left alone. Add XHD's and the handling will improve even more. As for the steering, if you have the stock power steering you can modify the steering pump pressure to reduce the amount of "boost" the power steering gives. Mopar action did an article on it for the Saginaw pumps, although you can do it for the federal pumps as well. Still adding spacers but the procedure for the install is different.

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf

If you need to rebuild the front end add Moog 7103 offset UCA bushings, they will allow you do dial in more caster, which also reduces the boat like steering boost feeling. Alignment should be for radial tires too, not using the factory specs.
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Very helpful thank you for your input putting all options on the table
 
Here she is with her current condition

image.jpeg
 
PawnCenter72 said:
Here she is with her current condition

View attachment 1714957119
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You definitely need new rear springs. Yours are sagging and weak. Get the Super Stock springs and return her to the rake you are looking for.

I had the same problem on my '69 GTS and temporarily fixed it with 2" shackle extensions but will be removing those and putting on the Super Stock springs in the next couple of months and will get another inch and a half of lift on the rear over where it is now...

GTS Park 1.jpg
 
krazykuda said:
They are not as bad as you make them out to be...

I've been using SS on my DD for decades with no problems...
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That's your opinion, I already posted mine. I ran Super Stock springs for awhile on my Challenger when it was a daily driver. Even with 1.12" torsion bars up front the Super Stocks were too stiff out back for the car to be balanced. 1.12" bars are pretty stiff, but the SS springs still created a harsher ride compared to those bars up front. They also raised the back of the car far too high for any kind of serious handling. I switched to XHD's, problem solved.

Plus, they do give the car an uneven ride height side to side, and don't have the same spring rate side to side. That compromises handling, the car does not react the same way turning left vs turning right. No, using SS springs isn't horrible, but there's no real reason to use them on a street car that never, or even occasionally sees the track. They're for street/strip cars that see equal usage on both in my opinion, and they absolutely have their place on the strip.
 
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Agree...No need for SS springs on a cruiser.

I actually like the stance of your car.
Could it use a new set of springs ? Yes, the old springs are starting to sag.
I would stick with a set of stock replacement springs from ESPO.
 
Totally agree. The height on that car isn't bad at all, and it could go lower in the front with larger torsion bars. A set of XHD's out back would be perfect, and would raise the car slightly from where it is now once they settle in. A little lower in the front and a touch higher in the back and you'd have a decent rake without throwing the handling of the car completely out the window.
 
Ddaddy said:
You definitely need new rear springs. Yours are sagging and weak. Get the Super Stock springs and return her to the rake you are looking for.

I had the same problem on my '69 GTS and temporarily fixed it with 2" shackle extensions but will be removing those and putting on the Super Stock springs in the next couple of months and will get another inch and a half of lift on the rear over where it is now...

View attachment 1714957135
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Thank appreciate your help and am looking into the options you have suggested
 
Super Stock springs will jack the *** end of your car up, and are designed for the strip. The right side will be higher than the left. If you like the "Stink Bug" look, then have at it.
But your car will look nothing like the pic you posted.
Your head is probably spinning by now with all the suggestions. Lol
I would put a new set of shocks on and drive the tires off it. :)
 
Ddaddy said:
It all depends on which Super Stock springs you buy. For the A body, the 3000 lb SS springs are nearly identical to the stock '69 GTS HD springs that it came from the factory with.

Mopar Super Stock Spring Special - Right & Left
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It does depend on which ones you get as the spring rate varies, but just because they look similar doesn't mean they are. They don't have the same number of leafs on the left and right springs, and Super Stock springs start at around 140 lb/in for a spring rate, even on the ones for the lightest weight cars. That's still too stiff for a street car. I run 120 lb/in springs on my Duster, and it's pretty well balance with the 300 lb/in 1.12" bars I have up front.
 
I never said anything about how they look, just the stance they give and how they perform. The 3000 lb SS springs are nearly identical to the HD springs that came on my '69 GTS. The extra leaf on the one side is an advantage when running a performance set up to provide the best overall performance balanced between launch traction and cornering...even if it's all on the street. The extra 20 lbs/in spring rate isn't enough to matter for normal street driving when the front end is tight and adjusted to the correct ride height. HP gas shocks help too.

My GTS was sagging an inch lower on the rear passenger side than the driver's side after 46 years of pressure from just the stock 340 drive train. Now with a Mopar performance Magnum 360 crate motor putting out 390 HP and 422 lb-ft torque, a 2500 rpm stall torque converter and 3.91 sure-grip rear...I want the extra leaf on the passenger side.
 
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