1974 440

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J

Jimp

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I have a 440 that I took out of a 1974 Gran Fury police car. What is the stock hp rating on it? It will be going in a 67 Valiant.
 
Having actually dyno tested a rebuilt stock 440 with the stock HP camshaft that the Cop Car will have..........272 HP
 
Do not worry yourself with HP numbers. It' a torque monster. That will be a fun car.
 
Well, in any case, a set of worked stock heads, and some cam plus headers and induction would likely work wonders with a mild 440, no?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Do not worry yourself with HP numbers. It' a torque monster. That will be a fun car.
Click to expand...

Just ask Jake and Elwood.

"It's got a cop motor, a four hundred and forty cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks, it's a model made before catalytic converters, so it'll run good on regular gas."
 
txstang84 said:
Well, in any case, a set of worked stock heads, and some cam plus headers and induction would likely work wonders with a mild 440, no?
Click to expand...

That will work wonders on any engine. :burnout:Low compression would probably be the limiting factor.
 
Jake: What's this?
Elwood: What?
Jake: This car. This stupid car! Where's the Cadillac?
[Elwood doesn't answer]
Jake: The Caddy! Where's the Caddy?
Elwood: The what?
Jake: The Cadillac we used to have. The Bluesmobile!
Elwood: I traded it.
Jake: You traded the Bluesmobile for this?
Elwood: No, for a microphone.
Jake: A microphone?
[pause]
Jake: Okay I can see that. What the hell is this?
Elwood: This was a bargain. I picked it up at the Mount Prospect city police auction last spring. It's an old Mount Prospect police car. They were practically giving 'em away.
Jake: Well thank you, pal. The day I get outta prison, my own brother picks me up in a *police* car!
 
Man I love the Blues Brothers....I am going to make a point of getting a few beers and watching it Sunday afternoon as the weather is supposed to be crap here and the Lions are playing the Browns.

I am still looking for a 74-77 Fury or Monaco myself. I really want one of these for a "winter beater".

That 440 low compression should be a blast in your light Valiant. With the big torque I would stay with pretty tall gears (3.23) and a bit of a stall (2500 or so). With adequate cooling that is a very fun combo. You will not even feel like you have to shift. Tons of torque every time you push the pedal.
 
I suggest the factory "police" stall. With a power band from idle to 5500 you need to take advantage of the starting just off idle torque curve.
 
txstang84 said:
And sub-8:1 CR didn't really mean crap with IQ52's build...it still topped out @ 1hp/ci...
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But it was very soft off idle to 3K. It made solid numbers just like many before it (and before the cheap dyno days we have now). But peaky numbers and higher in the rpm band which is exactly what happens when the static compression ratio drops. It takes cylinder pressure to build power. If you can't build cylinder pressure by mechanical means, you have to wait for the physics of a running engine to do it for you.
It's still a ton of engine for an A body and well worth just bolting in for starters. Big smiles :D
 
What about a carb? Still has the original TQ on it. It starts but I don't know how good it will run.
 
The firewall is rusted out on mine so it didn't hurt my feelings to make it a donor. I have a nice 67 Newport 383 4 door. Could be restored easily.
 
moper said:
But it was very soft off idle to 3K. It made solid numbers just like many before it (and before the cheap dyno days we have now). But peaky numbers and higher in the rpm band which is exactly what happens when the static compression ratio drops. It takes cylinder pressure to build power. If you can't build cylinder pressure by mechanical means, you have to wait for the physics of a running engine to do it for you.
It's still a ton of engine for an A body and well worth just bolting in for starters. Big smiles :D
Click to expand...


Sorry buddy, but if you think 414 LB FT @ 2500 RPM is "soft" then we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that was the bone stock 440 number. The last pull was 434 @ 3K. I think calling that engine soft is as far away from being connected as you can get.

Mechanical this, cylinder pressure that, blah blah blah. Why don't YOU show us some of YOUR dyno pulls, big Dave?
 
moper said:
But it was very soft off idle to 3K. It made solid numbers just like many before it (and before the cheap dyno days we have now). But peaky numbers and higher in the rpm band which is exactly what happens when the static compression ratio drops. It takes cylinder pressure to build power. If you can't build cylinder pressure by mechanical means, you have to wait for the physics of a running engine to do it for you.
It's still a ton of engine for an A body and well worth just bolting in for starters. Big smiles :D
Click to expand...

I understand the physics-the concept isn't lost on me...just saying if he wanted to take some liberties with an otherwise stock 440, it would respond pretty well...and not like a little bit of stall and some gears wouldn't cure those ills ;)
 
moper said:
But it was very soft off idle to 3K. It made solid numbers just like many before it (and before the cheap dyno days we have now). But peaky numbers and higher in the rpm band which is exactly what happens when the static compression ratio drops. It takes cylinder pressure to build power. If you can't build cylinder pressure by mechanical means, you have to wait for the physics of a running engine to do it for you.
It's still a ton of engine for an A body and well worth just bolting in for starters. Big smiles :D
Click to expand...

I appreciate your thoughts, and some more compression would change the engine dynamics some. Plus you always find a way to give a compliment in there.

It could be better with some changes, but soft and peaky.......is it?

RustyRatRod said:
Sorry buddy, but if you think 414 LB FT @ 2500 RPM is "soft" then we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that was the bone stock 440 number. The last pull was 434 @ 3K. I think calling that engine soft is as far away from being connected as you can get.

Mechanical this, cylinder pressure that, blah blah blah. Why don't YOU show us some of YOUR dyno pulls, big Dave?
Click to expand...

I don't know Rusty, maybe it is very soft off idle to 3000 rpm, I didn't test this engine there, maybe he did? After all it was only making 441 lb-ft at 3000 rpm on this pull with the 509 and the single plane, and completely stock it was making 403 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm.

Here is a soft-and-peaky-next-to-last-pull compared to the first pull.

RPM........... stock TQ/HP..........soft and peaky pull........ TQ/HP gain
2500...............414/197..................not tested................?/?
2600...............402/199..................not tested................?/?
2700...............403/207..................not tested................?/?
2800...............402/215..................not tested................?/?
2900...............399/220..................not tested................?/?
3000...............403/230..................441/252..................38/22
3100...............397/235..................452/267..................55/32
3200...............399/243..................462/281..................63/38
3300...............399/251..................466/293..................67/42
3400...............391/253..................463/300..................72/47
3500...............385/257..................458/305..................73/48
3600...............380/261..................450/308..................70/41
3700...............371/262..................444/312..................73/50
3800...............365/264..................440/319..................75/55
3900...............358/266..................443/329..................85/63
4000...............350/266..................451/344.................101/78
4100...............348/271..................455/355.................107/84
4200...............336/268..................461/369.................125/101
4300...............332/272..................464/380.................132/108
4400...............323/271..................470/393.................147/122
4500...............313/268..................471/404.................158/136
4600...............304/266..................471/412.................167/146
4700...............295/264..................469/420.................174/156
4800...............283/259..................469/428.................186/169
4900...............267/249..................463/432.................196/183
5000...............260/248..................456/434.................196/186
5100...............249/241..................457/444.................208/203
5200...............231/229..................452/447.................221/218
5300...............225/227..................442/446.................217/219
5400...............214/220..................428/440.................214/220
5500...............204/214..................422/442.................218/228

I'm seeing a torque rolling hill, but no peak. And I'm not going to say that the low (7.85:1) compression gave us "peaky" horsepower. Maybe an uphill grade?

It was making 38 lb-ft & 22 hp more than the stock engine @ 3000 rpm and 218 lb-ft & 228 hp more @ 5500 rpm. If it was only making 441 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm, then was it soft from idle to 2900 rpm? We'll know in the future, because the engine sits in the corner waiting for it's next chance on the dyno.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Sorry buddy, but if you think 414 LB FT @ 2500 RPM is "soft" then we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that was the bone stock 440 number. The last pull was 434 @ 3K. I think calling that engine soft is as far away from being connected as you can get.

Mechanical this, cylinder pressure that, blah blah blah. Why don't YOU show us some of YOUR dyno pulls, big Dave?
Click to expand...

The power isn't soft but it may feel soft under real driving conditions. Remember the dyno pull it at WOT and the loading on the engine isn't neccessarily the same as what it experiences on the street.

I.e. Dyno pull, increase to WOT. Engine stabilizes at desired start RPm (usually 2500-3500) . Begin pull.
 
Soft,my ***! 400 ft-lb's of torque,@ 2000-2500, installed in a 3000-3200 lb.A body? That's gonna make you smile,anyway you look at it.
 
How much low RPM torque are you going to stick to the ground on street tires?
 
Sorry buddy, but if you think 414 LB FT @ 2500 RPM is "soft" then we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that was the bone stock 440 number. The last pull was 434 @ 3K. I think calling that engine soft is as far away from being connected as you can get.
As usual and IMO you have taken the narrow minded point of view. I've gotten used to it and it does seem to work for you...lol.

Mechanical this, cylinder pressure that, blah blah blah. Why don't YOU show us some of YOUR dyno pulls, big Dave?
Why? You can't follow written ideas so you need more pictures :D?
Honestly I don't dyno much. I also don't understand how that relates to this discussion. My customers have had them dyno'd on occasion but it's rare and normally they hit chassis dyno and rarer still that I get anything but numbers from them. It's fun to see and hear but I consider dynos just a tool anyway. Validation comes from happy customers and the real truth comes from track testing.
I'm commenting on published sets of numbers and IQ is a builder I respect but respect doesn't mean never question or never disagree. If he's upset (and i don't think that's the case) he is free to respond in any way he sees fit. I don't affect his mortgage payment nor him mine so I see nothing wrong with hashing out ideas and I have no problem explaining my comments and thoughts because they differ from his.
 
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