318, 383 or other? Which one

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Dartdude72

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Well right now I have 72 Dart Swinger with a 318 hooked up to a 727 and it gets the job done. It is a 70 318 and has a pretty decent build with 10:1 compression pistons, 360 heads, Edelbrock high rise intake mani, pretty hot cam(kid I bought it from didn't know the exact specs, said it was Purple Performance's biggest small block cam) and sitting on top is a 750cfm Carter AFB Competition Series carb. Behind the engine is a 727 with shiftkit and 3000 stall torque converter and in the rear end I have 4.88 gears and a detriot locker. What I want to do witht he car is keep up with my friends 73 Camaro with a 80's 454 that will have cam, carb, intake and exhaust and was wondering what the cheapest and best way to do this. I have a 383 Magnum that I could drop in if I wanted so that is another build possiblity.

Pretty much open to all sugestions because from what I have seen people know their stuff on this forum. Sorry about a poor and lacking spec sheet but thats all I have.


Thanks
 
If you just want to outrun that Camaro the cheapest way possible, I'd suggest putting a 200HP nitrous kit on it. You were pretty vague as to just how fast you think you need to go to beat that GM car, so it's really hard to say, but if that N20 kit doesn't do it, you can always swap a 360 short block (with your cam, heads, manifold, carb, N20, etc. on it) and that should SURELY get the job done. You may not even need the 360....

The 383 is a GREAT engine and could undoubtedly be built into a powerhouse performer. but at what cost? You'd have to have a different transmission, as the bell housing bolt pattern is different from your 318's, and new A-body/B-block headers... a new driveshaft, probably, and hooking up your existing exhaust system could be problematic, with the new headers.

As exciting as a 383/A-body is, as a concept, the $$$$-factor would stop me cold, unless cost was no object.

See if you can find out how quick your car needs to be to get the job done. Surely, the guy with the Camaro has some idea of what his combination is going to produce, in terms of e.t.'s....

It would be a lot easer to predict YOUR best buy in performance if we knew how much horsepower you're gonna need.

Good luck with this. Maybe someone else will have an idea of how quck you need to go to handle this guy...


Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
 
Yeah I am having a hard time gauging what I need for HP and I'm trying to stay away from nitrous. As far as budget I don't really have a set one but probably nothing over $1500 depending on what kind of job I find this summer. I know his 77 Camaro with a 350 weighs 3600lbs and a 454 isn't going to help that number out any. I know the 454 can put out a lot if built right but I don't think with the basic bolt ons it will be an extreme powerhouse. I will also be about 600lbs lighter which is equivlent to HP. Not exactly sure what my car weighs but I'm sure someone on here would have a pretty good idea.

Another thing that doesn't have much to do with this but I was wondering if there were any small block long tube headers that didn't wrap around suspension components.

Thanks for the comment and keep them coming.
 
Header wise, it's tti.
What is your rear suspension consisting of?

For $1500, first I'd do a cal track set up in full with some MT drag radials. Then I would do tti headers into 2-1/2 exhaust ending at the rear axle instead of the full exhaust kit from them. As you may not have enuff money for the full deal to the bumper.

What exact intake manifold do you have. With the sound of this build, you'll need a RPM or M-1 single plane to get the job done and done well.

Any mods to the AFB?
 
I myself would stick with that 318. stroke it to 390, put a larger carb, 360 heads ect, headers, try to shoot for like 400 hp, and you'll kill that 454. the 80's 454 doesn't have but 290-350 hp. then when you beat him, you can say it's just a 318! really piss him off. Or i'd do the same with a 360, but build it to 408, or sb 440. the 383 block is amazing, but i'd stick with a small block!
 
I think some of you guys might be optimistic as to how far $1500 goes....

Everybody always looks to making more horsepower, but if you're going to be racing, the biggest ET improvements for the buck are usually suspension and tire upgrades.

Slicks or ET Streets (and wheels to put them on). Cal-Tracs, shocks, subframes, etc.

I'd also recommend a Holley carb over the Edelbrock for producing horsepower. There's a little bit of a learning curve, but it's worth a substantial amount of power.

It'd be fun to beat a 454 with a 318.

Steve
 
Based on what he's got already, I am willing to bet that it is already a high 12 to very low 13 sec car, at slowest. He may be close to running with an assumingly warm 454 in a Camaro. If not, a bit of head work or maybe a better flowing set of heads may do the trick.

He is probably making 350-375 hp at a minimum already.
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys. Right now for suspension I just have traction bars and air shocks and thats about it. The Carter I pulled off the 383 that I was talking about and just got a rebuild kit for it. I had a Holley on it but that was missing a lot of stuff from the previous owner so we decided to just try out the Carter.

I was looking at the Cal-tracks and they don't look like they would be to hard to put on. That would replace the traction bars correct?
 
The combination you have now is'nt bad...get rid of the carter carb,and get yourself a holley carb,those 4.88's are a bit extreme for your combination,i'd go with 3.91's or 4.10's,lose the air shocks and traction bars get a set of drag shocks and a pinion snubber..not knowing whats in the 454,but if its not too radical i'm willing to bet you hang right with him..nothing i LOVE more then smoking chevys..:-D
 
I agree with stroked, build up what ya got with a better carb, gearing and rear suspension to make it hook. I know what it costs to build a 383 into a screamer and the upgrades to the cooling, exhaust system, sub frame, tranny and shaft and it's all going to cost a lot more than the $1500 smackers you've got in mind. Besides, if your friend builds the hell out of that 454 I can invision one or more scenarios, either he melts the tires off it at the lights or he tears the crank out of it (they've got a history of that happening), either way you'll be long gone. I guess you can tell that I've got no respect for 454's built or otherwise, I've smoked a few over the years:-D

Terry
 
Another important thing I forgot to say was that we will only really be racing on 1/8 mile. So what would be a good 390 stroker kit to get and also what would be a good carb for the money.
 
Well, 4.88s in the 1/8th are going to come in handy.

I'd think just a regular double pumper carb would be good. They're pretty cheap. If you want to spend a little more, Quickfuel has always treated me pretty well.
 
Would someone be able to direct me to a good 318/390 stroker kit. A while back I found one for like $1000 or something and haven't been able to find it again.
 
Update the rear supension with cal tracs and good shocks, then tune it. Add subframe connectors (weld in). I don't see why you'd have that much of an issue with the camaro. What times does it run now? More power is useless without sticking it to the pavement first. And air shocks and traction bars show a severe ignorance there. It doesnt take a lot of power to run mid 12s. It does mean taking advantage of every ounce of power tho.
 
I was looking at the Cal-tracks and they don't look like they would be to hard to put on. That would replace the traction bars correct?
Click to expand...
That would be correct. Traction bars on a MoPar are a general no-no since that is the job of a pinion snubber.

So what would be a good 390 stroker kit to get and also what would be a good carb for the money.
Click to expand...
A standard Holley DP is a great basic carb that works real well. Hard to beat for the money.
The only 318/390 kit I know off hand is one from Speed-o-motive. You'll need to do some work on that one unless someone posts it up.
 
Alright so you want to go 390...


LINKY


Mike

I think i fixed it but if not go to www.hughesengines.com and click on mopar la engines, then find stroker kits, then look closely for the 390. The link works for me, so I dunno.
 
Thanks, that is the one that I found a while back but couldn't find it again.

What is the compression ratio of the pistons that come with that kit?
 
any ratio you want, and you'll have to add a few things, like the bearings and what not, but, its' all there.


mIke
 
Like some other guys said earlier in so many words you can build all the power you want but if you don't stick it to the ground you ain't goin nowhere and that 454 will eat your lunch. First spend money on suspension mods. Cal-tracs. Drag shocks and sticky tires. With just that alone you should be in the 12's with how you described your engine. Unless he has several mods done to his it ain't gonna be faster than that.

Just a note on building a stroker since so many guys think it can be done for $1000. I can guarantee you that $1500 won't go nowhere on building a stroker. It might buy most of the parts but what about the machine work (at least $600 just for the block if you do it right) and peripherals after you get it in such as oil and filter change x2 right off the bat. Then theres antifreeze. Probably some hoses and belts. Spark plugs and maybe wires and cap. There's another $125-200. I'm building a stroker right now and I can promise you that you won't build even a basic stroker for $1,500 unless all the parts are used.

Unless you have a brother that runs a speed/machine shop and sells you parts at cost and does machine work free forget the stroker idea for $1500.
 
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