318 timing mark

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prostreeter9

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Hey guys:

Does anyone know if you can use a 273 timing cover and balancer on a 318 and the timing marks be accurate?

Jon
 
So long as all parts that is timing cover, water pump, balancer are matched. "Engine balance" might be a different matter.

A better plan might be to use the 318 balancer, put it together, and then use a piston stop to create an accurate timing mark.
 
prostreeter9 said:
Not sure thinking mid 70's
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Yes and no...

You can bolt the 273 timing chain on the 318, but then you will also need to use the cast iron water pump and proper pulleys for it, or else the aluminum pump radiator hose outlet will block the timing marks.

The 273 was made from 64-69.

In 70 they changed the timing marks from the pass side to the driver's side and had to move the lower radiator hose outlet on the water pump to the opposite side also, so it wouldn't block the timing marks. You have to use the 69 and earlier timing chain with the cast iron water pump, or the later timing chain and aluminum water pump.

Then you have to worry about what side the radiator outlet is on...

The timing marks on the damper also changed to match the timing cover...


What specifically are you trying to do??? What year engines and timing chain covers/balancers are we talking about???
 
prostreeter9 said:
Hey guys:

Does anyone know if you can use a 273 timing cover and balancer on a 318 and the timing marks be accurate?

Jon
Click to expand...


I would recommend using the original damper with the engine, then make a mark for the timing mark whichever cover you use.

I also recommend finding TRUE TDC with a dead stop tool and mark the balancer with white out or white/silver paint.

I am degreeing many cams right now and find that the timing marks on the balancer can be off... It's best to measure with a TDC tool or dial indicator when you build it to make sure...
 
If you have any doubt, just use a piston stop and degree wheel. Find TDC and mark the balancer and timing cover in a place where you can see it good.
 
67Dart273 said:
318 balancer, ...... a piston stop to create an accurate timing mark.
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krazykuda said:
I would recommend using the original damper with the engine, then make a mark for the timing mark ...... TRUE TDC with a dead stop tool a...
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RustyRatRod said:
............. just use a piston stop and degree wheel. Find TDC and mark the balancer..............
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So, anyway..........

attachment.php
 
So what I have is a 64 valiant that had a 273 and before I had the car my father-in-law put a 318 in it. He used the cover and balancer off the 273. Now I'm looking at do so work to it and I'm wondering if I should change to match the motor. Just wanting to make sure when I go back together I won't have problems dialing the timing in. Next thing will be the rad hose which runs on the driver's side.
 
Ok then, use the timing chain cover and cast iron water pump from the 273, but I would keep the original 318 vibration damper and just remark TDC for the different markings on the 273 timing cover.

This way the radiator hoses will match up with the original radiator and molded hoses for the original 273 will fit.

You can then run the original 273 alternator bracket set-up and P/S brackets if it has P/S.
 
Car started life as V8 car, swap cover, damper from 273 to 318 (already done ), NAPA etc for lower hose, 64 Valiant, with 273 done!

Unless there is something wrong with the damper, you should be good to go. Sounds like your father-in -law made a smooth swap when he did it.
 
Yup, 273 balancer is fine. Both engines are internal balanced (zero balanced) It would be a good idea to check your timing mark ,as previously mentioned, with a TDC stop whichever balancer you use.
 
What the guys said: both are internally balanced so the 273 dampener is fine & will have the TDC slit on the pass side at TDC. the 273 T cover will have the marks on the pass side to match that. the iron pump will put the hose on the dr side which will match your dr rad nipple. All good! just mix and match pulleys/spacers to get the belts lined up & proper fan to rad clearance (different between schroud and no schroud apps)
 
Rapid Robert said:
just mix and match pulleys/spacers to get the belts lined up & proper fan to rad clearance (different between schroud and no schroud apps)
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If he uses what came on the 273 for pulleys, fan and shroud, everything should line up there also... :cheers:
 
You can use the parts you have on there now.......whatever they are. Find TDC. Pick an appropriate spot where you can SEE both the balancer AND the timing cover.......or WHATEVER reference you want to choose on the engine and mark it. You can mark it ANYWHERE on the balancer and engine you want. It does not matter where. As long as the corresponding mark on the balancer and wherever you choose on the engine line up at TDC, you are fine.
 
I used a '74 318 cover & 273 h2o pump...saw that timing marks were an issue. I made a piston stop out of spark plug w/all thread, and rotated back to stop and forward to stop, a few times to establish consistency (carefully!!) Divided by two and established zero that way. I then took my old timing pointer off of my 273, attached it and at Zero on timing tab I scribed a line in my balancer for my new TDC.


(Then painted over old timing mark
 

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As RRR said, people make too much of this. It is really simple.
 
RustyRatRod said:
You can use the parts you have on there now.......whatever they are. Find TDC. Pick an appropriate spot where you can SEE both the balancer AND the timing cover.......or WHATEVER reference you want to choose on the engine and mark it. You can mark it ANYWHERE on the balancer and engine you want. It does not matter where. As long as the corresponding mark on the balancer and wherever you choose on the engine line up at TDC, you are fine.
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Triple R........The OP doesn't have to pick a spot for a mark...........he's got one, two actually, one on the damper, and one on the timing tab on the front cover, and they probably line up just fine at TDC.

It sounds like the OP is confused about the differences between a 273 and a 318 and what he should do for timing purposes. It's also sounds like his father-in-law was on the ball, knew what he was doing, when he swapped the 273 damper and timing cover over to the 318. This is really a nonissue. The OP has marks, they are factory marks, in the factory location, put a light on it an set timing.........273 spec's....318 spec's.....custom setting.......where ever the car performs best. I suspect that's the problem..........he doesn't know what spec's should he use? 1964 273, or what ever 318..........what distributor does he have? That there tells the story.
 
JBurch said:
Triple R........The OP doesn't have to pick a spot for a mark...........he's got one, two actually, one on the damper, and one on the timing tab on the front cover, and they probably line up just fine at TDC.

It sounds like the OP is confused about the differences between a 273 and a 318 and what he should do for timing purposes. It's also sounds like his father-in-law was on the ball, knew what he was doing, when he swapped the 273 damper and timing cover over to the 318. This is really a nonissue. The OP has marks, they are factory marks, in the factory location, put a light on it an set timing.........273 spec's....318 spec's.....custom setting.......where ever the car performs best. I suspect that's the problem..........he doesn't know what spec's should he use? 1964 273, or what ever 318..........what distributor does he have? That there tells the story.
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I understand that. I am saying that if he is having trouble seeing it. I am simply giving him another option. A lot of times things get in the way and make it difficult or impossible to see the marks. I'm not stupid. I can read and rather well.
 
Hey guys

Here's what I'm doing. Going to have some head work done, put a small cam in it and put MSD ingnition components on it. I just was not sure if the timing marks for the 273 were the same as the 318. I had figured out that they were on different side of the motor. I set the timing using a lite before but the car has always been a little sluggish, so wondered if it was because the timing marks came off the 273.

Sound like the father-in-law did it right though and I just need to make sure that everything gets timed right when I go back together with it.

Thanks for the info guys
Jon
 
As a suggestion, since you have the heads off and are doing some work on them, and the rest of the engine, replace the small valves in the heads with a set of 1.88 intakes and 1.6 exhausts. On a "teen" it's a nice up grade.

Good luck.
 
15 initial on ported would be a good start. I had 18 on a stock '83 318. You could set the initial with the vac gauge method then shorten the slots to get 35 total (initial+slots) then toss the heavy spring with the elongated loop on one end & sub in a MP or Mr gasket light spring in place of it (you want a spring combo that keeps you a moderate bit below the pinging point at WOT up thru the gears on your hottest/driest (most likely to ping) day and any spring combo once you toss the elongated advances in a linear rate then plug in/adj the vac can. Short (easiest) version: set initial to 18 (you have a cam)/toss the elongated spring/sub in a lite one there & call it good. bottom line if NO pinging & no balky starter on cranking & no overheating from retarded timing (not a worry there but throwing it in) then you are fine. there is silent ping so you wanna stay a reasonably amt below the amt that makes it ping but you want to be pretty close to that line also for max efficiency
 
Hey guys

So I got the heads off last night to take to the machine shop and found a couple of problems. First rotating the motor over to where #1 is up the mark on the damper is at nine o'clock which is not close to timing mark. Second thing is the heads themselves one is a 318 and one is a 360, so looks like I'm buying some heads.

Jon
 
prostreeter9 said:
Hey guys

So I got the heads off last night to take to the machine shop and found a couple of problems. First rotating the motor over to where #1 is up the mark on the damper is at nine o'clock which is not close to timing mark. Second thing is the heads themselves one is a 318 and one is a 360, so looks like I'm buying some heads.

Jon
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Well get busy and make a new TDC mark. With the heads off all you need is a simple bracket bolted to the block deck. It does not have to be this fancy

14-piston-stop-for-TDC.jpg


Piston%20Stop.jpg
 
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