340 max camshaft with exhaust manifolds

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There comes a point where the equipment being used is in stone and you just simply ignore what they are and proceed with the build accordingly. Knowing the intake and exhaust is curtailing power and hurting the build, you redesign the camshaft and make the best possible choices elsewhere on the build to help as much as possible.

The F.A.S.T class of racing has proven this. Since he is not going up in cubic inches, the OEM parts are not taxed as much like a big stroker would tax the OEM parts.

Making concessions in camshaft profile and other parts of the engine because of the OEM intake and exhaust manifolds only kills more power and makes for a weaker engine.

You must pay attention to the duration @050 and the overlap (LSA) of the camshaft to make better power than grabbing an off the shelf camshaft. IN ANY APPLICATION!

If you just want to just press the easy button and grab a off the shelf cam, then be happy with your results. When you get a pasting on the street, blame yourself.

A wide LSA is a torque looser. While it’ll give a higher vacuum reading and idle nicer, ask yourself, would you throw away 30 ft. lbs. of torque or more just for a smooth idle?

For a described car the OP has given, a wide LSA is not only the last thing I’d do but I also would make sure the cams profile would stay aggressive and work in my desired RPM range I’m looking for. Lack of vacuum hurting power brakes?
Add a vacuum pump. Double rubber mount it at the front of the car under the battery tray.
Op said he was worried about reversion (overlap). That's why I suggested a wide lobe sep. Personally, I love tight lobe separations. I've got a small block billet roller ground on a 104 I want to try. I much prefer a 108 to a 112, a 116 is worse. But I don't try to go fast with an iron intake and exhausts.
 
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Op said he was worried about reversion (overlap). That's why I suggested a wide lobe sep. Personally, I love tight lobe separations. I've got a small block billet roller ground on a 104 I want to try. I much prefer a 108 to a 112, a 116 is worse. But I don't try to go fast will an iron intake and exhausts.

Op said he was worried about reversion (overlap). That's why I suggested a wide lobe sep. Personally, I love tight lobe separations. I've got a small block billet roller ground on a 104 I want to try. I much prefer a 108 to a 112, a 116 is worse. But I don't try to go fast with an iron intake and exhausts.
 
If you're worried about reversion, then running manifolds is the most none productive thing you can do. Even with a stone stock 318 2 barrel camshaft.
 
Nope, not wide LSA. There is a recent you tube video on cam selection by D.Vizard. It goes for 1 hr 8 min. If you are looking for a cam, it will be an hour of your life well spent....
Anybody who is about to buy a new cam should watch it. Sorry, do not know how to link it.
If you want less reversion or a smoother idle, you do NOT widen the LSA, you reduce duration.
The problem with ringing cam grinders like Racer Brown is that, while well meaning, they have not dynoed 22,000 cams like DV has to see what works best & what doesn't.....
 
IMO
you are trying to marry race-engine design parameters into a street package, and just need to rethink it a little. Move your trapspeed from 108 mph to 65 mph, and then things will fall into place pretty quick.
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Ima thinking, on the street with an automatic, 4.30s and 26s will get your 340 singing to the tune of about 11.2 mph per 1000 rpm in Second gear; so 6000=67mph, or 7000=78mph; @10% slip in the TC.
How often are you gonna be in that zone?
Why cam your engine for a speed zone you will almost never be in, and thus sacrifice a really big chunk of low to midrange torque?
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Imo
what I want in a Saturday-night Warrior is power on demand, at the speeds I will normally be at.
Since first gear, on street tires and on the street, is practically a throw-away gear, there is no need for race gears, cuz; unless you throw sub 3.00 gears in it, it's still gonna light those 26" tires up. So really, First gear is just a means to get to Second gear. Cuz, second gear is where yur gonna spend most of your time.
And so, IMO, you need to consider what roadgear you want to be in. For instance with a TF trans the ratios are 2.45-1.45-1.00 and with 4.30s that gets you Roadgears of;
10.54-6.24-4.30.. But guess what, with 2.45 gears the numbers are
xxxxx-6.00-3.55-2.45; check out 6.24 versus 6.00, which are as good as identical. Say you want a lil better than 6.00 gear, say 8.00; like
8.00/2.45=3.23s. The new Roadgears are;
xxxxx-7.91-4.68-3.23 Compared to the 4.30s at
10.54-6.24-4.30
As you can see, the 3.23s give you a better gear at say 30 mph and a better gear at say 60 mph, than do the 4.30s; but, I admit, the 3.23s sacrifice the tire-frying 10.54 starter gear which to me is hugely excessive with an automatic, anyway.
Thus the Roadgears will dictate the cam.
Say you did go with 3.23s; with 26" tires this will get you 14.9mph per 1000 rpm@10% slip in Second gear; so 4000=59.5mph. A tad low I'd say, for your intended usage.
Say you wanted to top out around 60mph= 5800. Thus you would need 3.23 x 1.45=4.68, rounds down to 4.56s; and those will get you, 61mph @5800@10% slip.
allowing 300rpm overspeed, your cam could be running down the back of the power curve starting at 5500, and the powerpeak could be at 5300.
Sounds like a good number for a 340, so in the FTH world, that would be about a 230* @.050cam.
Now you are married to those 4.56s.... just to get the
Roadgear of 4.56 x 1.45=6.61.... which you could get
in FIRST gear with 2.76s, for 61mph =5870@10%slip
Now:
I'm just throwing the numbers around so you can see how one thing plays off another.
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For a 340; any starter-gear over about 8.5 with an automatic and a modest stall, is gonna satisfy First gear. 8.5/2.45=3.47 rounds to 3.55 gears. So 3.55s are gonna be your minimum targeted rear gear. 3.23s will also work, with just a lil more stall.
The smaller your rear gear is the sooner up the rpm band the car will hit 60 mph, and so the lower the power-peak can be....... which will pump up the midrange power. For a streeter that does not do 1.8second sixtyfoots no matter what the rear gear is, race-gears are not the answer.
IMO; The right gear in a Saturday-night Warrior is the one that gets me power on demand, at the speeds I will normally be at. And the right cam is the one with the most average power in that speed range.
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Now here's a secret; in terms of gear-ratios, the Four speed is a better street trans, in as much as it has a second gear ratio of 1.92, so getting that 6.61 Roadgear requires a rear gear of 6.61/1.92= 3.44s which is why my warrior has 3.55s in it. But, your 340, without a Convertor, now requires a lil more than 8.50 starter gear. and 2.66 x 3.55=9.44 may not cut it. The Commando gearset brings a 3.09 low gear to the party, which will get you
3.09 x 3.55= 10.97 which is on the money.
With 26s and 3.55s, Second gear will now get you 61@5400...... BadaBoom! Now you can use a cam that peaks around 4800 to 5000, which again, in the HFT world, is about 220*@.050
I know I didn't answer any of your questions; but; at these modest cam sizes (220 to 230 @.050, and sub .500 lifts) I see no good reason to eschew FTHs, unless your 340 has a really low Scr .
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My favorite all-time FTHcam in my 367 was a 223*@.050. Gobs of power beginning at under 3000rpm. With good heads, a free-flowing exhaust, plus headers, I regularly beat that lil cam to 7000rpm and beyond.

BTW;
on the street, no 340 will ever pull 955 cfm in street trim, normally-aspirated, with a .500 lift or less cam, and with 340 manifolds. 600cfm is likely to be adequate, 700 leaves room for growth. The cfm rating is relatively meaningless at street-rpms. In most cases you will only ever go to the rev-limiter once below 60mph, and that will be in First gear, with the tires on fire, so the engine will do that with a big 2bbl, never mind a 6-Pac. As soon as the auto-trans shifts into Second, the rpm will fall to 59%; so say from 5800 to 3420, and any 4bbl will be big enough there.
Happy HotRodding
 
Vizards rule of 128 goes like this;
128 less (cubic inches of one cylinder, divided by the intake valve size; times .91) = Lsa
for a 273 with 1.75s, it comes to 110
for a 318 with 1.88s valves, it comes to 109
for a 340 and 2.02s, it comes to 109
for a 360 and 2.02s it would be;
128less (45/2.02 x .91)= LSA =107.7, rounds to 108
for a 408 stroker and 2.02s it comes to 105
As you can see, for regular SBMs, the 110LSA is daymn close.
 
Here 108 vs 112 vs 120, there was suppose to be 116 to but had some problem.

There almost no difference in peak power but about 10 tq between 108-112 and 30 tq between 112-120 so obviously 116 would about mid between 112-120 seems like the difference grows slightly by a few lbs-ft the wider the lsa, at least in this case.


 
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IMO;
The Post 84 test, is is NOT a valid test.
To be valid, the Dcr would have to be maintained.

By changing the LSA, the Ica changes, which changes the CCP.
When the CCP changes, so does the torque.
when the torque changes, so does the Power.
And torque lost, is most noticeable, at lower rpms.

Furthermore; To be even more valid, the ratio of compression degrees to power degrees would also have to be maintained, which means that each of those cams will need to be installed at different number of advance from "straight-up". This, again, affects the Ica>CCP>Torque>hp.

Furthermore; all changes will affect the powerband, which affects the average power in each gear; which is what the typical streeter should be concerned about, cuz he only has ONE gear and change to work with, until he figures out how to solve the traction issues..

From my very modest experience with lost CCP:
> even 2 degrees of CCP is noticeable. 4* is obvious.
> CCP changes between 1.5 to 2psi per 1 degree of Ica, depending on the Scr.
> therefore 4* of change can easily be 6>8ps, possibly more.
> 8psi on a 160 psi engine is 5%, which is a lot, and it translates to the entire rpm range.
 
Nope, not wide LSA. There is a recent you tube video on cam selection by D.Vizard. It goes for 1 hr 8 min. If you are looking for a cam, it will be an hour of your life well spent....
Anybody who is about to buy a new cam should watch it. Sorry, do not know how to link it.
If you want less reversion or a smoother idle, you do NOT widen the LSA, you reduce duration.
The problem with ringing cam grinders like Racer Brown is that, while well meaning, they have not dynoed 22,000 cams like DV has to see what works best & what doesn't.....greed.
Agreed. Thank you for the hyd/solid conversions. I have watched Vizard's work on Lsa and find it factual.
 
Here 108 vs 112 vs 120, there was suppose to be 116 to but had some problem.

There almost no difference in peak power but about 10 tq between 108-112 and 30 tq between 112-120 so obviously 116 would about mid between 112-120 seems like the difference grows slightly by a few lbs-ft the wider the lsa, at least in this case.



Roller...
 
? It was meant to be a statement of agreement, most would/do sacrifice LSA, majority of cams have that sacrifice built in by selling them on 110-114 + LSA.
No worries, that’s why I wrote what I did.
 
Here’s mine, I have more compression that you would want, but have run 11.39 at 117. Stroked? Yes. More compression? Yes. Solid flat tappet through manifolds, yes. The manifolds like more lobe separation.

I think mine is a 78 360 block bored to .040. With Icon forged flat top pistons .010 in the hole. Scat h beam rods and Scat 4” cast crank. The heads are x heads ported by Dwayne Porter of Porter Racing Heads. Flow about 274 cfm intake. The cam is an Engle flat tappet intake .557 lift 245 degs at .050 lift. Exh is .551 lift with 261 degs at .050 lift. 112 degs lobe seperation. Intake is stock 68-69 340 manifold with the divider cut down and smoothed out a bit. Stock hipo 340 exh manifolds. Eddy 800 cfm AVS thunder series. Two fuel pumps. A big Carter mechanical and a Holley red pump back at the tank with Holley hydra mat inside. Mallory billet distributor and MSD 6al. 904 trans with Cope RMVB with a PTC 9.5 “ converter. 4:10 rear gear in an 8 3/4”. TTI 2.5” exhaust. Slant 6 front torsion bars with QA1 R’s on the front and 1” over arched leafs on the rear with QA-1 double adjustable rear shocks. Car is original 68 Barracuda 340-s Fastback, weighs 3353 lbs with me in it. Tires are f70-14 polyglas redlines. Best run is 1.60 60’ 11.393. Best mph is 117.22 Shifting at 6500 rpm. Looks box stock. Oh converter flashes to 3400 rpm

671A8810-E433-479A-9854-FA26B2873127.jpeg
 
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AJ,
The post #84 is a valid test. Cams were changed, nothing else. The DCR is useless figure, do not know why people use it because it is based on assumed flow of air into the cyl, not the actual mass that is trapped.
A test done many years ago using identical SFT cams in a SB Chebby, except for LSA: 106, 108,110 yielded similar results. 110 cam made 5 hp more at peak, but was down 20 hp on average power to the 106 & down 8 hp on the 108.
 
Here’s mine, I have more compression that you would want, but have run 11.39 at 117. Stroked? Yes. More compression? Yes. Solid flat tappet through manifolds, yes. The manifolds like more lobe separation.

I think mine is a 78 360 block bored to .040. With Icon forged flat top pistons .010 in the hole. Scat h beam rods and Scat 4” cast crank. The heads are x heads ported by Dwayne Porter of Porter Racing Heads. Flow about 274 cfm intake. The cam is an Engle flat tappet intake .557 lift 245 degs at .050 lift. Exh is .551 lift with 261 degs at .050 lift. 112 degs lobe seperation. Intake is stock 68-69 340 manifold with the divider cut down and smoothed out a bit. Stock hipo 340 exh manifolds. Eddy 800 cfm AVS thunder series. Two fuel pumps. A big Carter mechanical and a Holley red pump back at the tank with Holley hydra mat inside. Mallory billet distributor and MSD 6al. 904 trans with Cope RMVB with a PTC 9.5 “ converter. 4:10 rear gear in an 8 3/4”. TTI 2.5” exhaust. Slant 6 front torsion bars with QA1 R’s on the front and 1” over arched leafs on the rear with QA-1 double adjustable rear shocks. Car is original 68 Barracuda 340-s Fastback, weighs 3353 lbs with me in it. Tires are f70-14 polyglas redlines. Best run is 1.60 60’ 11.393. Best mph is 117.22 Shifting at 6500 rpm. Looks box stock. Oh converter flashes to 3400 rpm

View attachment 1716073099
That right there is just a bowl slam full of badassary.
 
Here’s mine, I have more compression that you would want, but have run 11.39 at 117. Stroked? Yes. More compression? Yes. Solid flat tappet through manifolds, yes. The manifolds like more lobe separation.

I think mine is a 78 360 block bored to .040. With Icon forged flat top pistons .010 in the hole. Scat h beam rods and Scat 4” cast crank. The heads are x heads ported by Dwayne Porter of Porter Racing Heads. Flow about 274 cfm intake. The cam is an Engle flat tappet intake .557 lift 245 degs at .050 lift. Exh is .551 lift with 261 degs at .050 lift. 112 degs lobe seperation. Intake is stock 68-69 340 manifold with the divider cut down and smoothed out a bit. Stock hipo 340 exh manifolds. Eddy 800 cfm AVS thunder series. Two fuel pumps. A big Carter mechanical and a Holley red pump back at the tank with Holley hydra mat inside. Mallory billet distributor and MSD 6al. 904 trans with Cope RMVB with a PTC 9.5 “ converter. 4:10 rear gear in an 8 3/4”. TTI 2.5” exhaust. Slant 6 front torsion bars with QA1 R’s on the front and 1” over arched leafs on the rear with QA-1 double adjustable rear shocks. Car is original 68 Barracuda 340-s Fastback, weighs 3353 lbs with me in it. Tires are f70-14 polyglas redlines. Best run is 1.60 60’ 11.393. Best mph is 117.22 Shifting at 6500 rpm. Looks box stock. Oh converter flashes to 3400 rpm

View attachment 1716073099
Thank you for the response. Very helpful.
 
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Hello All,

As we all have access to dynamic compression calculators and gear mph graphs...I'm looking for feedback from individuals who run solid lift cams with oem exhaust manifolds.
Gears are not an issue (plenty of sets). 904/727 available 26" tire. Building a sleeper for my Son. 72 dart.

Thanks.
Hello All,

As we all have access to dynamic compression calculators and gear mph graphs...I'm looking for feedback from individuals who run solid lift cams with oem exhaust manifolds.
Gears are not an issue (plenty of sets). 904/727 available 26" tire. Building a sleeper for my Son. 72 dart.

Thanks.
Well, the cast manifolds are a cork in its arse, which works like heads with restrictive ports. For a stealth street engine you want a semi smooth idle. The 340 bumpstick should work fairly well. You do need a dual pattern cam to aid the exhaust. Another trick to aid low lift exhaust flow for the street is to cut the exhaust seats and valves for 40° seats. This aids blowdown with lower RPM. Yes the racers find gains with 50° seats but are using high lift cams and rockers.
Increasing intake rocker ratio by .1 and the exhaust by .05 generally helps. Roller rockers with roller tips helps and is stealth.
 
I’m not following the rocker ratios. As you post it, .1 makes a 1.5 into a 1.6. Then the .05 makes a 1.5 into a 1.55. This is not a round ratio nearly anywhere.

Overall it is best to ether change the camshaft to suite the new lift and duration as needed or just increase the rocker ratio to 1.6, which is normally the next step up in rockers.

There are odd ball rocker ratios but the system is expensive. Also normally found on 48* heads and not the stock 59* heads. These rocker ls are made by Jesel and are around $1800 just to own the set.

You can also do both tie cam and rockers but this often leads to not what you wanted and not performing at it’s best unless you have your cam, valve timing, piston timing events pre calculated out. Enjoy that.

Exhaust manifolds and camshaft timing for a specific goal require a good bit of for thought and the cams will drastically differ from each other in the simplest of things most people do not out a thought into because it’s just not on the radar.

To aid in discovery, a simple program like Desk Top Dyno Sim will allow you to input your own custom cam timing events on an advertised or @.050 events. Also the type of exhaust, exhaust manifolds are an option. Your goal is the best amount of torque in the cruise rpm you travel at for best mileage results.
 
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