dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Just wondering if i should keep the factory windage tray with my deep sump pan or switch too a kevko pan? Anyone know pros and cons? Ive heard i can pick up some power with the kevko... Just wondering. Thanks!
340 oil pan question
- Thread starter dadodgekid
- Start date
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TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Don't you have anything else that could use that time, labor and money?
Seems like a lot to go through for what you would get out of it.
Seems like a lot to go through for what you would get out of it.
dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Don't you have anything else that could use that time, labor and money?
Seems like a lot to go through for what you would get out of it.
My buddy has a chevelle on spray and im trying to stay ahead of him with my car! Lol max effort with a 340, so every little bit counts!! I have both pans already so its not costing me anything
Use the deep pan. Sell the windage tray and stock oil pan.
When you drop the oil height of the filled oil pan down, crank windage is of no or very little issue.
This is why the factory used a windage tray. It avoids a engineering redesign of the oil pan with a simple use of a tray and longer bolts.
When you drop the oil height of the filled oil pan down, crank windage is of no or very little issue.
This is why the factory used a windage tray. It avoids a engineering redesign of the oil pan with a simple use of a tray and longer bolts.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I would get on the phone with Kevin at Ishihara-Johnson.
Do what he says.
I'd run the tray, and buy a crank scraper.
Anything else is 100% bullcrap.
Do what he says.
I'd run the tray, and buy a crank scraper.
Anything else is 100% bullcrap.
If it were myself, I'd run the stock pan and windage tray and call it a day. The deep pan is fine as well.
Depending on what I'm doing, a crank scraper is great. Or just overkill, which is how some people go and belittle you for not following.
You want every last bit of power?
Depending on what I'm doing, a crank scraper is great. Or just overkill, which is how some people go and belittle you for not following.
You want every last bit of power?
dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Gotcha! Thanks for the replys guys!!
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I didn't do it for power, although I'm sure there may be some. It's about oil control.
Have you been to the I-J web site? He has some cool pics of what he does to all different kinds of engines, just for control.
Plus, if you call Kevin, grab a pad and some paper and take notes. You will get an education.
dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Im always up for learning more!! Ill go check it out. Thanks!
dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Yes, thats what im gunning for. Beside going to a roller cam, no money for that right now... But my car is a pump gas, solid flat tappet at 3300 lbs and a 343ci. Last friday was the fastest yet at 11.56 @ 117. Im trying to get in the high 20's low 30's with the setup i have. Next is weight loss and maybe swithing to a 904. But i appricate the input! It really eats these guys up locally... An old mopar with iron heads and pump gas beats up on these LS cars and new mustangs
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yes, thats what im gunning for. Beside going to a roller cam, no money for that right now... But my car is a pump gas, solid flat tappet at 3300 lbs and a 343ci. Last friday was the fastest yet at 11.56 @ 117. Im trying to get in the high 20's low 30's with the setup i have. Next is weight loss and maybe swithing to a 904. But i appricate the input! It really eats these guys up locally... An old mopar with iron heads and pump gas beats up on these LS cars and new mustangs
I have a rule. It's arbitrary, but like NHRA, you have to have a line to work to. Don't mean you can't move the line, but it's a start.
If I'm doing something that will run quicker that 12.00 I want a crank scraper. Or a stroke longer than factory 360 length. Some guys will claim it's overkill. Ok, say 11.50 and call it good.
There is no way I'd skip a crank scraper anymore. This is even more critical when the RPM goes up, or the stroke gets longer, or both.
It's about oil control.
plumkrazee70
Well-Known Member
Yes, thats what im gunning for. Beside going to a roller cam, no money for that right now... But my car is a pump gas, solid flat tappet at 3300 lbs and a 343ci. Last friday was the fastest yet at 11.56 @ 117. Im trying to get in the high 20's low 30's with the setup i have. Next is weight loss and maybe swithing to a 904. But i appricate the input! It really eats these guys up locally... An old mopar with iron heads and pump gas beats up on these LS cars and new mustangs
What gears are you running? Care to share more of the build?
dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Sure, 4.56 gear with a 275/60 tire.
340, w-2 head, pocket ported and gasket matched by me lol. .557 solid mopar cam and a 4500 ish stall converter. All in a full steel 74 dart sport
plumkrazee70
Well-Known Member
Damn. Sounds like a beast
dadodgekid
When in doubt... floor it
Its pretty tame, idles around 900-1000 and i drive it 15 miles to work atleast once a week lol
plumkrazee70
Well-Known Member
Nice.
Dadodgekid, good work. I now see where your at. Keep up the good work... and Azz beatings! This coming comment is also addressed to YR.
"Oil control IS power!"
And yes YR, I have been to his site and spoke with him. I also agree that any serious driver looking for power and your E.T. Mentioned (seems like as good as a starting point as any and a good point it is,) should use what ever means at there disposal and as there wallet allows.
Also a note to others reading that might not have occurred to you. As the crank stroke gets longer, the speed of the rods are picking up speed. This means more wind. (Windage) The "wind" created can actually cause the oil to go
Up the pan sides, hitting the crank, which slows the crank down costing power. Keep in mind you have a lot of oil coming down from the valley on top of this.
The oil takes a beating and lives a shorter life while costing you power. The oil gets whipped. And if bad enough, it will foam!
IF and when you can;
"Control your oil!"
P.S. A deep pan and a oil cooler is also helpful in longer useable oil life.
"Oil control IS power!"
And yes YR, I have been to his site and spoke with him. I also agree that any serious driver looking for power and your E.T. Mentioned (seems like as good as a starting point as any and a good point it is,) should use what ever means at there disposal and as there wallet allows.
Also a note to others reading that might not have occurred to you. As the crank stroke gets longer, the speed of the rods are picking up speed. This means more wind. (Windage) The "wind" created can actually cause the oil to go
Up the pan sides, hitting the crank, which slows the crank down costing power. Keep in mind you have a lot of oil coming down from the valley on top of this.
The oil takes a beating and lives a shorter life while costing you power. The oil gets whipped. And if bad enough, it will foam!
IF and when you can;
"Control your oil!"
P.S. A deep pan and a oil cooler is also helpful in longer useable oil life.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
All true.
The reason I didn't push the HP gain from crank scrapers is for two reasons.
1). There are too many variables, such as stroke length, RPM, crankcase volume, crankcase pressure (either positive or negative) and even the rods. An aluminum rod, because of its bulk, creates a different windage pattern than its more compact steel counterpart.
B). I've never had the chance to actually dyno in an A-B-A test to verify results.
Other than that, I concur. And Kevin Johnson is a walking library. It's like a free education over the phone.
Edit: I failed to mention a skirted block, such as a BBM, the venerable FE dorf and the LS platforms affect the effectiveness of the crank scraper. They still do work, they are just less effective with a skirted block.
That doesn't really make sense to me. Surely the factory would find it far easier to 'redesign' the pan deeper and use a different pickup tube, than to design the windage tray from scratch and then have to manufacture the complicated main bolts with their corresponding smaller mounting bolts. In fact a deeper pan is not really a full redesign, it is the same, just made with longer sides. Didn't the 318-3 truck motor use a bigger pan with the deeper reaching pickup? I'm pretty certain that the windage tray, which was unique to the 340 engines (the race bred engine) was used for just that, to improve oil control by keeping more oil in the pan at higher rpm, and therefore more in line with the 'performance' breeding of that engine. Wasn't for saving money reasons. Chrysler would not have wanted a deeper pan either for ground clearance issues, everything has to have plenty of tolerance when using in passenger cars.
Yeaaaaaaaa, whatever...... Problems with your thinking....
Your right, F-ing shoooooot me on the mistake of the word redesign. Redesigning the pan is a simple thing to do but cause's more problems with ground clearances and the added material expense in creating the pan, GOD damn your right.
Chrysler doesn't manufacture the bolts, so "complicated" is not there issue and drilling and tapping a bolt head isn't complicated.
318-3 truck pan applies how to cars?
The 340 was not a race bread engine, a common mistake.
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