340 rebuilt, Slant 6 coming out

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1975Mopar

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Just picked up my 340 from a complete pan to intake rebuild with Edlebrocks aluminum heads and intake.

I also picked up a crate A518 transmission as well

Got most of the parts I need to convert but still looking for a 8 3/4 rear end for the build

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i wouldn't dismiss a ford exploder 8.8 rear axle. with a second short side axle shaft and the long side axle tube cut down by 2 7/8" it's the same overall length as an 'a' body 8 3/4. plenty of threads about the swap on here, i did it to my '68 valiant.
also they're 5x4.5" pcd, disc brakes, 31 spline shafts and in most all cases 3.73 gears with lsd. what's not to like?
neil.
 
i wouldn't dismiss a ford exploder 8.8 rear axle. with a second short side axle shaft and the long side axle tube cut down by 2 7/8" it's the same overall length as an 'a' body 8 3/4. plenty of threads about the swap on here, i did it to my '68 valiant.
also they're 5x4.5" pcd, disc brakes, 31 spline shafts and in most all cases 3.73 gears with lsd. what's not to like?
neil.
Good idea! Thanks for that information. Lots of Exploders around so I’ll look into that
 
If fuel economy is important to you;
With 3.73s, in overdrive, with 27" tires; 65= 2100 in LU.
That's great for a factory-cammed 318. But;
Good luck getting any fuel economy out of a carbureted SBM with a nasty cam. The problem, mainly, will be lack of optimum cruise-Timing, unless you lock yur timing, and modify the heck out of your VA. And then you gotta figure out how to make it not detonate around town.
I mean maybe fuel-economy isn't important to you, IDK.
 
AJ, that's another advantage of the exploder axle. with the popularity of the ford 8.8 axle in the mustang community, gear sets and upgraded lsd's etc etc are readily/cheaply available. :thumbsup:
neil.
 
nice one :thumbsup: did they have another exploder you could grab a second short shaft from? if not they're very cheap new from rock auto anyway.
neil.
I didn’t even think about that. They had a few of them there so maybe I’ll go back over there and grab another assembly or just a short shaft?
 
if you're going to grab just the shaft i'd pull the long one from the axle you have first. then you'll know exactly what tools you'll need to take back with you. your long shaft has to come out anyway so nothing lost. :thumbsup:
neil.
 
I'd start fresh. New motor, new trans, and use an old hi-mile rear? Too much work for the other nice stuff.

8 3/4 Mopar Stamped Housing & Axle Package - Moser Engineering
used exploder axles are cheap, much more so than a used 8 3/4, especially an A body one.
also that new housing you mention still needs a centre section, which again is more expensive than the ford 8.8 so even with all now diff, gears, bearings and brakes the exploder axle is cheaper than an equivalent 8 3/4. i get it that a lot of mopar guys cringe at the use of a non mopar part but the op's car's not numbers matching and is already getting a motor swap so who cares. if a cheaper axle means more cash to spend elsewhere on the project i say go for it. it's not like a future 'purist' owner can't swap in a mopar axle if they want to is it?
just saying.......
neil.
 
Old , high-mile, non bolt-in junk. Not in my cars. I have an non-Chrysler SBM engine, ATI Turbo 400, and Strange Dana. Non mopar from front to back.
Put good parts in, and never worry about them again. I suggest an LS, since it's not numbers.....

I'll bet it's cheap and easy to change gear ratios in that ford rear.
 
Old , high-mile, non bolt-in junk. Not in my cars. I have an non-Chrysler SBM engine, ATI Turbo 400, and Strange Dana. Non mopar from front to back.
Put good parts in, and never worry about them again. I suggest an LS, since it's not numbers.....
i guess you didn't read my reply then? new everything in the exploder case (blasted and powder coated of course) and there's no trace of high mile anything. still cheaper than the same 8 3/4. and as for non bolt in? if you can't weld a pair of leaf spring perches to a casing then.......... :BangHead:
 
I called Mosers today out of curiosity and was quoted $5k for a 8 3/4 rear end. Think I’m a stick with this 8.8 and get it cleaned up
 
I considered doing the 8.8 swap in my dart for cost aspect of it but.. I managed to score an A body 8 3/4 housing and axles about 4hrs one way from me.. for probably more than an entire salvage yard 8.8 with brakes..between that, new stock 10 inch brakes from a fellow member, and a new center section from Quick Performance.. it wasn’t cheap but it was a total bolt in solution. I think I may have 2.5k in my rear axle stud to stud. Maybe a little less. All new axle bearings, housing end studs, brake lines, wheel studs… No hate here for going the 8.8 route though. Pickins are slim on A-body 8 3/4 axle setup that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. Biggest cost was the brand new center section of course.
 
I just picked up my 8.8 rear end today from the machine shop. Shortened the tube , brand new axles, seals, removed all the brackets, cleaned and painted all for $1300

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If fuel economy is important to you;
With 3.73s, in overdrive, with 27" tires; 65= 2100 in LU.
That's great for a factory-cammed 318. But;
Good luck getting any fuel economy out of a carbureted SBM with a nasty cam. The problem, mainly, will be lack of optimum cruise-Timing, unless you lock yur timing, and modify the heck out of your VA. And then you gotta figure out how to make it not detonate around town.
I mean maybe fuel-economy isn't important to you, IDK.

I would like to point out that fuel economy is in the eye of the beholder, first of all. So if you are saying you will never see 20 mpg, you nailed that. If you are saying you’ll never make it out of the single digit mpg, you have been tuning the wrong way.

In my 1972 Duster 340 with spirited driving, I see about 6 mpg. If I just drive it more sensible but not babying it, I can see about 12 mpg. Additionally, I am able to drive it thru town at an idle without any issues. And the setup is as follows.

340 with 284/484 camshaft (10:1 pistons)
750 Edelbrock Performer
LD340 dual plane intake
Points ignition
Distributor curved for 20 advance at idle (1000 rpm), 34 all in by 2500 rpm
(Only using mechanical advance, vacuum advance disconnected)
3200 stall FTI torque converter
727 non lock up transmission
3.91 Sure Grip 8-3/4
27” tall 255/60R15 rear tires

Why I think it gets 12 mpg combined highway and country roads. At 70 mph it’s turning 3500 rpm… in the powerband of the camshaft. Therefore no downshift required to pass. Also, 3500 rpm is above the 3200 stall rating of the converter, so most efficient. (Losing about 200 rpm to non lockup).

Now, any detonation problem is a fuel based problem. I run 93 octane to keep “run on” at shut off at bay. If I use 87, it will “run on” at shut off, that’s the definition of detonation. There’s the easiest test to determine if you have detonation and simplest way to solve it.

I do not understand this “optimum cruising timing” you speak of because timing is not where I had any of my issues with cruising thru town… it was a carburetor tuning issue as I was still learning how to adjust things and had the idle circuit set too lean. I understand timing has benefits but how would that affect mpg performance that much. Am I immune to this because I am avoiding the vacuum advance screwing with my timing and relying on only the mechanical advance?

In order to not hijack this thread, you are doing great work 1975mopar. Remember to have fun while spending all of your money cause that’s what it’s about in this hobby. I too had considered the 8.8 but in the end used the B body 8-3/4 that was already swapped in, which was a regret to not finding an A body 8-3/4 because it’s hard to find 15” wheels I like in enough backspace sometimes….
 
I only tune streeters, and almost exclusively small-block Mopars.
Tuning a Manual-trans combo, is completely different from tuning an Auto.

I once got 32 mpg out of an 11.3Scr 195psi, 270/276/110 , 223/230@050 cammed 367/4speed, geared at 75=1840rpm, and at optimum cruise timing.
That was on a point to point day-trip, with a dedicated carb.
It was repeatable.
Mid to high 20s was routine.
Combo went 106 in the quarter, on 245street tires, with 3.55s; the only run it ever made.

Your street engine has five basic optimum timing points.
1) the Power Timing
2) the Stall-Timing
3) the Idle-Timing
4) The Part-Throttle-timing, at your favorite roadspeed
5) the hiway-Cruise-timing.
Additionally, each of these have to be connected, by the "rate of advance" and/or the Vacuum Advance.
It is the job of the tuner to determine the optimum Timing curve, to hit as many of those points as may be possible, which will make the performance of each combo, a testament to the Tuner, and it goes out as free advertising.
Once the Ignition Timing is right, tuning the fuel is almost routine.
If you do not have a dash-mounted, adjustable, Timing Module, then how can you ever get the timing right?
Sacrifices may have to be made.
Three degrees of lost Power-Timing cannot be felt in a streeter with typical street gears and tires. I will gladly sacrifice those three degrees for three degrees anyplace between stall and peak torque, where it is far more useful.
In my experience, most SBMs will want at least 52 degrees of Cruise-timing, which will depend on rpm. I had one combo that wanted 63 degrees. Rarely do they want less than 52 degrees unless they have overdrives.

My thoughts;
>Anything with alloy heads, I run 87E10.
>The biggest cam my combo has seen is the 292/292/108 Mopar cam.
that was a terrible street cam in a manual-trans situation.
That cam wants rear gears of, at the minimum 3.91s, and was happier with 4.30s .
And yes, she was very hard on gas around town. I worked with it all summer then bit the bullet and pulled it. out. This was at 11.3Scr, and pressure around 175; and yes I ran that at full-timing on 87E10.
> I've never had an SBM, with any trans or gears, or any cam, get down into single digits, around town, and I've been pounding them since 1970.
>BTW,
My current cam idles down to 550rpm/sometimes as low as 500, at Idle-Timing of just 5 degrees. Which with 3.55 gears, makes the slowest speed I can drive, between 4.0 and 3.5 mph. And it will pull itself in a parade, for like an hour.
Is 5 degrees optimum?
Of course not, but neither is 20*.
 

AJ/FormS

Thanks for the detailed explanation into the manual trans sbm tuning differences. I was unaware that you could get into the 30 mpg range but understand why you defined it as difficult. I definitely have zero experience tuning the sbm for manual, and auto was not exactly simple as it has its own challenges. But it sounds like the automatic might be a little more forgiving in some instances, but maybe not. Tuning my 340 was all my doing with guidance from my friend that tunes dual Carter AFB 750s on his Hemi/4 spd. He doesn’t play with sbm or automatics but the Eddy carb was where he knew what to do, and I learned all I could from him to be able to tune my 340. The timing curve was where I took a few guesses and got lucky that the car liked it the first go round. 20 to 34 sweep. Like I said I don’t use vacuum advance because I didn’t like that it took the timing past 34 as I believed that to be risky? Car will idle down to 700 rpm but I have the idle set to 1300 rpm for the automatic. I have reliable and fun at any speed I choose and it does get good enough mpg considering I was not targeting that. So given the circumstances I was thrilled to get up around 12 mpg considering my setup. It’s not easy to find good carb tuners with so many people installing EFI these days. Seems like even running points these days scares everyone. But I fried a Pertronix and was over that instantly… I choose to build an old car because I can fix it… so on went parts I could actually fix.
 
Most Explorers spent their lives as grocery getters. And those 31 spline axles are over built for an SUV that putted around as a daily driver. So while they are old and used most of them won't be worn out. And many on this forum have had great luck with them.

Another big plus with Ford 8.8 is you can replace all the diff clutches by removing cross shaft and sliding axles out. No need to remove differential from housing. Then you can shim clutch packs tight for much improved traction.
 
AJ/FormS

Thanks for the detailed explanation into the manual trans sbm tuning differences. I was unaware that you could get into the 30 mpg range but understand why you defined it as difficult. I definitely have zero experience tuning the sbm for manual, and auto was not exactly simple as it has its own challenges. But it sounds like the automatic might be a little more forgiving in some instances, but maybe not. Tuning my 340 was all my doing with guidance from my friend that tunes dual Carter AFB 750s on his Hemi/4 spd. He doesn’t play with sbm or automatics but the Eddy carb was where he knew what to do, and I learned all I could from him to be able to tune my 340. The timing curve was where I took a few guesses and got lucky that the car liked it the first go round. 20 to 34 sweep. Like I said I don’t use vacuum advance because I didn’t like that it took the timing past 34 as I believed that to be risky? Car will idle down to 700 rpm but I have the idle set to 1300 rpm for the automatic. I have reliable and fun at any speed I choose and it does get good enough mpg considering I was not targeting that. So given the circumstances I was thrilled to get up around 12 mpg considering my setup. It’s not easy to find good carb tuners with so many people installing EFI these days. Seems like even running points these days scares everyone. But I fried a Pertronix and was over that instantly… I choose to build an old car because I can fix it… so on went parts I could actually fix.
Idle it down to 800 , for your transmission and u joints sake. The pertronix don't last in most cases.. maybe a yr before they quit. Known to be garbage.
Most people should be able to attain
15 mpg w/o vac advance when measuring in hwy miles and in the 3-3500 rpm range with a street built 340 in an A body.
Vac advance won't hurt anything because it comes in when the engine isn't under much load 'at cruise'.
The vac advance range is tuneable adding around 12-20 degrees via Allen wrench through the vac canisters port that the hose attaches to.
 
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