340 Vs 360

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I don't know, when Spareparts was active here .... he offered to race anyone's street car for money with his 318 street car Duster. How come nobody stepped up and took his money ????? ??? ?? ? Here he is taking money from a built LS on NOS also. He offered me this engine for 4500 bucks.. (been a while, I'm pretty sure it was 4500). No 408's, 440's or 451's stepped up to the plate :D


:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
lol i won alot of money street racing my 318 with spray
in a model 270 dart
people thought it had 273
chevelles gto vettes mustangs easy money
spray right off the hit
 
i know the ET of that 318, he was so deep in the 10's .... that it might have been a 9 ???? LOL
 
Well after 10 years of incredible informational arguments from our impressive members the consensus is the reason why the 360 is better than the 340 is because it is cheap.

Nobody is saying a 360 is better just because it's cheaper.
They're saying it's better because it's both cheaper *and* has more cubes.

You get more potential power from more cubes and it costs less. It's a win.

All things being equal which they never were.
To wit:
1. The better performance engine from the factory was the 340 but the 360 was cheaper.

Thats right, in stock configuration they never were equal. The 340 had the advantage.

But 50+ years has passed and most people expect to make more than the 275hp the high performance 340 engine made.

Any 50yo 340 or 360 LA engine with original heads/valves is probably going to be snagged out.
And those factory valves, springs etc are almost certainly gonna go straight in the trash and be replaced by something superior. (If not replacing heads with new aftermarket ones entirely)

That's $$$ you need to spend regardless of whether you are building a 340 or 360.

Can't get leaded petrol anymore, even if you found low mileage 340 heads for cheap, it'd still be time for new seats by default.

The 340's cylinder head advantage seriously just isn't there at all in reality.

I'd even say that reconditioning any factory cylinder head isn't worth it if you want performance. unless you can do the machining and port work yourself.

2. In order to unlock the performance potential of the 360 one must replace the pistons, the heads (or bigger valves like the 340 2.02 intakes), and replace the intake manifold with one such as the 1971-1973 340 intake. These changes are affordable to do because the 360 is cheaper.

Not necessarily, a junkyard $500 5.9 magnum with stock heads and pistons will make as much power as a freshened up 340, and would absolutely roast a 50yo one with a lot of mileage.

Sure, the 340 comes with a decent 4bbl intake.
But most people would be buying a superior aftermarket piece regardless of whether they have a 340 or 360 though.
Intake manifolds are literally the lowest hanging fruit in the quest for horsepower.

3. You can bore the 360 block to its maximum and it will result in the same bore as the 340. Throw a stroker kit on it and you got 408 cubes! Do the same procedure with a 340 block and you get 418 cubes! Everybody supporting the 360 because of its bigger factory displacement should now advocate the 340 block because it now has a bigger displacement than the stroker 360 block! But the 360 block is cheaper to start with.

If a 340 and 360 were comparable in price, a 340 block with stroker rotating assembly would be the hot item.

But 340 engines cost 3x-10x what a 360 does, depending on condition.

If you wanna pay an extra $1500+ for a 340 block that might give you the potential for an extra 8 cubic inches in a stroker configuration...I say go for it.
Personally I couldn't justify that.

I'd save $1500 and used it to pay for most of that stroker.

4. I skipped over the induction changes such as tunnel rams, cross rams, inline dual quads, turbo chargers, blowers, and N2O. The 360 is still cheaper.

All of these things cost the same whether they're bolted to a 340 LA or 360 LA, (and a 360 magnum too if you redrill to suit LA intakes)

but all of these will gain more horsepower on a 360ci engine than a 340ci with the same heads/cam/valvetrain etc.

Bottom line, the 340 is only the better choice if comparing stock engines.
 
Nobody is saying a 360 is better just because it's cheaper.
They're saying it's better because it's both cheaper *and* has more cubes.

You get more potential power from more cubes and it costs less. It's a win.



Thats right, in stock configuration they never were equal. The 340 had the advantage.

But 50+ years has passed and most people expect to make more than the 275hp the high performance 340 engine made.

Any 50yo 340 or 360 LA engine with original heads/valves is probably going to be snagged out.
And those factory valves, springs etc are almost certainly gonna go straight in the trash and be replaced by something superior. (If not replacing heads with new aftermarket ones entirely)

That's $$$ you need to spend regardless of whether you are building a 340 or 360.

Can't get leaded petrol anymore, even if you found low mileage 340 heads for cheap, it'd still be time for new seats by default.

The 340's cylinder head advantage seriously just isn't there at all in reality.

I'd even say that reconditioning any factory cylinder head isn't worth it if you want performance. unless you can do the machining and port work yourself.



Not necessarily, a junkyard $500 5.9 magnum with stock heads and pistons will make as much power as a freshened up 340, and would absolutely roast a 50yo one with a lot of mileage.

Sure, the 340 comes with a decent 4bbl intake.
But most people would be buying a superior aftermarket piece regardless of whether they have a 340 or 360 though.
Intake manifolds are literally the lowest hanging fruit in the quest for horsepower.



If a 340 and 360 were comparable in price, a 340 block with stroker rotating assembly would be the hot item.

But 340 engines cost 3x-10x what a 360 does, depending on condition.

If you wanna pay an extra $1500+ for a 340 block that might give you the potential for an extra 8 cubic inches in a stroker configuration...I say go for it.
Personally I couldn't justify that.

I'd save $1500 and used it to pay for most of that stroker.



All of these things cost the same whether they're bolted to a 340 LA or 360 LA, (and a 360 magnum too if you redrill to suit LA intakes)

but all of these will gain more horsepower on a 360ci engine than a 340ci with the same heads/cam/valvetrain etc.

Bottom line, the 340 is only the better choice if comparing stock engines.
LOL, I said all of that intending to lighten up the ascerbic tone to which the thread had sunk. There should be a funny button to hit whenever someone tries to be humorous (down under it is humour).
Nonetheless, thanks for reinforcing the fact that the key advantage of a 360 is it‘s cheapness.

By-the-way, when I purchased my 1971 H Code 340 Duster it had a 1974 318 in it. My intent was to replace it with a Gen III 5.7 HEMI. Everyone of my car buddies including the previous owner urged me to put a 340 back in it. Not one of them recommended putting a 360 in the engine bay.
So, I bought one original bore 340 (disassembled) for $800 from a friend and another year correct complete (carb to pan, water pump to rear tranny seal) 340 with its 727 for $1200. I’m happy with everything that I have.

Of course I could have bought a junk 360 for $500 and poured $1500 into it to make it perform but that wasn’t my desire. It still isn’t.
 
I don't know, when Spareparts was active here .... he offered to race anyone's street car for money with his 318 street car Duster. How come nobody stepped up and took his money ????? ??? ?? ? Here he is taking money from a built LS on NOS also. He offered me this engine for 4500 bucks.. (been a while, I'm pretty sure it was 4500). No 408's, 440's or 451's stepped up to the plate :D


:lol: :lol: :lol:

He wouldn't race N/A.
We tried, several of us. A few local to him.
Those grudge racers are funny dudes.
I still don't buy he was running a 318 with one kit, only he knows. and we only know what he want's to tell us. lol
I'm going to try to make it over to the coast to watch Jeremiah's juiced big block Dart grudge car. is it a 451 or 512? with 383 badges. lol
 
Nobody is saying a 360 is better just because it's cheaper.
They're saying it's better because it's both cheaper *and* has more cubes.

You get more potential power from more cubes and it costs less. It's a win.



Thats right, in stock configuration they never were equal. The 340 had the advantage.

But 50+ years has passed and most people expect to make more than the 275hp the high performance 340 engine made.

Any 50yo 340 or 360 LA engine with original heads/valves is probably going to be snagged out.
And those factory valves, springs etc are almost certainly gonna go straight in the trash and be replaced by something superior. (If not replacing heads with new aftermarket ones entirely)

That's $$$ you need to spend regardless of whether you are building a 340 or 360.

Can't get leaded petrol anymore, even if you found low mileage 340 heads for cheap, it'd still be time for new seats by default.

The 340's cylinder head advantage seriously just isn't there at all in reality.

I'd even say that reconditioning any factory cylinder head isn't worth it if you want performance. unless you can do the machining and port work yourself.



Not necessarily, a junkyard $500 5.9 magnum with stock heads and pistons will make as much power as a freshened up 340, and would absolutely roast a 50yo one with a lot of mileage.

Sure, the 340 comes with a decent 4bbl intake.
But most people would be buying a superior aftermarket piece regardless of whether they have a 340 or 360 though.
Intake manifolds are literally the lowest hanging fruit in the quest for horsepower.



If a 340 and 360 were comparable in price, a 340 block with stroker rotating assembly would be the hot item.

But 340 engines cost 3x-10x what a 360 does, depending on condition.

If you wanna pay an extra $1500+ for a 340 block that might give you the potential for an extra 8 cubic inches in a stroker configuration...I say go for it.
Personally I couldn't justify that.

I'd save $1500 and used it to pay for most of that stroker.



All of these things cost the same whether they're bolted to a 340 LA or 360 LA, (and a 360 magnum too if you redrill to suit LA intakes)

but all of these will gain more horsepower on a 360ci engine than a 340ci with the same heads/cam/valvetrain etc.

Bottom line, the 340 is only the better choice if comparing stock engines.
Very well put. I don't think anyone will argue that "stock" as factory delivered a 340 will out run a 360, all else being equal. It wasn't until 74 I think that there was a hi-po 360, a friend had a 74 Duster, 360 four barrel that ran decent for what it was.

What the 340 guys (yes, I have one) always neglect is that it costs the same to rebuild a 340 as it does a 360, or a 318. If you're going to have to bore it, and most of the time you will, you may as well put a decent flat top, or a small quench dome piston in it. Yes, the X head is better than the J, only by a small amount. If you need new valves and guides and you're doing a J head go ahead and open it up to a 2.02. Again, as frosty posted, the parts and machine work are a wash, it costs the same.

If I wanted to build an engine and didn't have a core, unless someone gave a LA 360, I'd buy a Magnum 360. I believe that dollar for dollar there is more potential there.
 
He wouldn't race N/A.
We tried, several of us. A few local to him.
Those grudge racers are funny dudes.
I still don't buy he was running a 318 with one kit, only he knows. and we only know what he want's to tell us. lol
I'm going to try to make it over to the coast to watch Jeremiah's juiced big block Dart grudge car. is it a 451 or 512? with 383 badges. lol
He had a 150 shot. Did you see the purge come out of the LS built camaro ?? He had shot too ... and still lost. It was a 318, I could have bought it. He took from turbo fox bodies as well.... Still, an all steel Duster in street form running a 318 on a 150 shot scared all those 500 cubic inch A-bodies on the porch ???? HOWEVER >>>>> BREAKING NEWS !!!! Think it was more than a 318?? NOW he does have more than a 318 ... he is over 400 cubic inches now and needs a parachute :D :D
 
He had a 150 shot. Did you see the purge come out of the LS built camaro ?? He had shot too ... and still lost. It was a 318, I could have bought it. He took from turbo fox bodies as well.... Still, an all steel Duster in street form running a 318 on a 150 shot scared all those 500 cubic inch A-bodies on the porch ???? HOWEVER >>>>> BREAKING NEWS !!!! Think it was more than a 318?? NOW he does have more than a 318 ... he is over 400 cubic inches now and needs a parachute :D :D
Oh his car kicks some butt for sure, he's got a nice setup.
 
And also
340 main journal is 2.50
360 is 2.81
Both 2.125
340 Floating pin
360 pressed
Same main cap, just opened .150 more cap side as well as saddle side to accommodate the 360's 2.81 journal
I think most 360 cyl walls are around .250 thick. +/- .060..but there are porosity issues along with erosion that cause weak spot that will do and sometimes are already cracked/veined from as cast. They are some of the late 70's blocks. 1978 for instance.
My fav 340 'I'll take any' but the best imo were the 1970-71 blocks.
70-73 cast 360 are desirable as they have been know to more than not have thicker cyl walls. They also use a smaller diameter thrust bearing. Early 360 thrust bearing will work in a any 360 late block but will not in late to early do to the thrust bearings register is cut to fit.
Check all 340's for oil feed misalignment and or hole diameter...they are known to be offset from the bearing oil hole and too small a feed passage to the main saddle=oil starvation if not addressed.
Heads, best are either 'for both 340/360' the 894/915, 974/596, 308/346, magnum 95-97 heads. The others that are good are oddities like the partial 915 '77-79' the 576 which was a performance head, and the rt.
You can make good about all of them, but imo..those are the best 360/340 iron heads.
 
LOL, I said all of that intending to lighten up the ascerbic tone to which the thread had sunk. There should be a funny button to hit whenever someone tries to be humorous (down under it is humour).
Nonetheless, thanks for reinforcing the fact that the key advantage of a 360 is it‘s cheapness.

I can appreciate that you were trying to lighten up the mood but I do think that when you say "the key advantage if the 360 is it's cheapness" you're somewhat missing the mark.
Perhaps intentionally so?

The 360's advantage is that it has an additional 20 extra cubes, period.

It just happens to be that it's cheaper as well.
Makes it an easy choice.
 
The 360's advantage is that it has an additional 20 extra cubes, period.
Cubic inch and torque are closely linked, torque is part of what it takes to make power the other is rpm what a 340 excels at. Really comes down to the preferences and compromises of the individual.
 
Cubic inch and torque are closely linked, torque is part of what it takes to make power the other is rpm what a 340 excels at. Really comes down to the preferences and compromises of the individual.
Beyond the ability of the shorter stroke to rotate quicker, all other parts being equal in balance and weight, what else is there?
 
Beyond the ability of the shorter stroke to rotate quicker, all other parts being equal in balance and weight, what else is there?
If running similar cylinder heads 340 will breath slightly better (rpm) and 360 will make slightly more torque and less rpm generally, torque and rpm are the yin and yang of horsepower, RPM is like Rodney Dangerfield.

1674338978794.jpeg
 
Why is this comparison even being made?
It seems the issue is when 2 different size engines are equally prepared there are guys
wondering if the bigger one will make a little more power?
 
If running similar cylinder heads 340 will breath slightly better (rpm) and 360 will make slightly more torque and less rpm generally, torque and rpm are the yin and yang of horsepower, RPM is like Rodney Dangerfield.
How so? I’ve taken mass out of the equation.

Have you not yet learned that rpm is valve train regulated issue?
If you can’t control the valves, you can’t rpm.

True the bigger bore breaths better.
You put in parentheses, rpm. This is also not the end all nor the beginning. Excellent breathing starts way way way before rpm. So including that alone is mis information and mis leading.

Dang dude!
 
Why is this comparison even being made?
It seems the issue is when 2 different size engines are equally prepared there are guys
wondering if the bigger one will make a little more power?
RPM beats torque. Every time. Hands down. To argue this is infantile.

Yet it continues on apace.

Exactly!
 
Why is this comparison even being made?
It seems the issue is when 2 different size engines are equally prepared there are guys
wondering if the bigger one will make a little more power?
If you can squeeze the same lbs-ft per cid out of both should be similar.
 
How so? I’ve taken mass out of the equation.

Have you not yet learned that rpm is valve train regulated issue?
If you can’t control the valves, you can’t rpm.
More rpm doesn't mean 7,000-10,000+ rpm.

A 340 is only slightly smaller not needing crazy amounts of rpm, if the same lbs-ft per cid your talking 300-400 rpm difference.
True the bigger bore breaths better.
I wasn't taking bore size, bore stroke rod ratio those are bonus but I was going off cubic inch the cubic inch difference since that what was brought up.
You put in parentheses, rpm. This is also not the end all nor the beginning. Excellent breathing starts way way way before rpm. So including that alone is mis information and mis leading.
But saying No Replacement for displacement and torque is king aren't half truths misleading leaves out lot of variables etc.. ? I'm just trying to introduce the other main variable RPM to the conversation.

My point when it comes hp, rpm is just as important as torque, hp is the combination of both, if you want to talk which ratio of torque and rpm makes better street car, cheaper, better drag engine etc... Those are different design concerns and are generally build specific.

Is this really controversial stuff.
 
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More rpm doesn't mean 7,000-10,000+ rpm.
Then what does more rpm mean?
A 340 is only slightly smaller not needing crazy amounts of rpm, if the same lbs-ft per cid you’re talking 300-400 rpm difference.
Slightly smaller in what?
I wasn't taking bore size, bore stroke rod ratio those are bonus but I was going off cubic inch the cubic inch difference since that what was brought up.
Please expand. Because what I read is not what I thought you were saying. Just the opposite. Ish….
But saying No Replacement for displacement and torque is king aren't half truths misleading leaves out lot of variables etc.. ?
In a general statement, OK
I'm just trying to introduce the other main variable RPM to the conversation.
Again rpm is valve train control limited
My point when it comes hp, rpm is just as important as torque,
Tell that to the F1 4cyl engines
hp is the combination of both, if you want to talk which ratio of torque and rpm makes better street car, cheaper, better drag engine etc... Those are different design concerns and are generally build specific.
And person specific
Is this really controversial stuff.
Mehhh…
 
Then what does more rpm mean?

Slightly smaller in what?

Please expand. Because what I read is not what I thought you were saying. Just the opposite. Ish….

In a general statement, OK

Again rpm is valve train control limited

Tell that to the F1 4cyl engines

And person specific

Mehhh…
You give what I write the worse possible interpretations, I’m gonna bow out now before long I’m gonna be a ***** again for answering your question lol.
 
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